Opinion Recruiting and List Management Team: Hamish Ogilvie, Justin Reid & Co

[Scorpus]

The key events as you have described which have put us back are

Jones over Butters - but that one at the time was a fair call. Jones was a pure mid but just hasn’t translated nearly as well at AFL level

McAsey over Serong - a clear error by list management

The AFL gifting Anderson to GC

They were our only opportunities over the rebuild to have a better midfield - we ballsed one opportunity and it hurts is moving forward


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They were our only opportunities if you don't count trading into better draft positions

 

[Scorpus]

Have written this plenty of times but if you look at the numbers (CBA’s) and disposals , tackles and goals Rachele is tracking in line with Rozee. I would argue in front at the same stage of their careers. Obviously needs to continue to develop at a good rate over the next 2 seasons

Pedlar is definitely developing more slowly than we would hope but provided he stays healthy I think he will be a jet (personal opinion)

Rankine is special wherever he plays and I suspect he averages 20 touches and 2 goals a game this year.

And then we have the more recent picks to develop.

Jones and McHenry misses have put us back a couple of years.
Rachele and Pedlar should start to break out next year as midfielders (if we compare timelines with Rozee and Spudders)


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This is all well and good but we have to actually play them as midfielders, not keep waiting for the "next year" when it's all supposed to come together

Until we play them as mids, they aren't mids.

And everything we've done so far has been going the other direction, bringing back experience (Crouch) and keeping them in the forward line or elsewhere

 

[George Kramer]

The key events as you have described which have put us back are

Jones over Butters - but that one at the time was a fair call. Jones was a pure mid but just hasn’t translated nearly as well at AFL level

McAsey over Serong - a clear error by list management

The AFL gifting Anderson to GC

They were our only opportunities over the rebuild to have a better midfield - we ballsed one opportunity and it hurts is moving forward


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You can’t say Jones over Butters was fair enough, it’s up to Hamish to have selected the better player.

Rowbottom was available when we picked McHenry.

We could also have traded up.

You can’t just say we were unlucky that we’ve drafted no starting mids since Dangerfield in the top 20.

 

[relapse]

This is all well and good but we have to actually play them as midfielders, not keep waiting for the "next year" when it's all supposed to come together

Until we play them as mids, they aren't mids.

And everything we've done so far has been going the other direction, bringing back experience (Crouch) and keeping them in the forward line or elsewhere

I don't have an issue bringing back Crouch because in my opinion he has more of an impact on the game and is an upgrade on Laird, the reality though is that we can't play both players in the middle at the same time.

The problem is that we're araldited to the flawed concept that possessions are the be all and end all in the midfield and can't see anything else so the club won't ever move Laird out of the middle even though Crouch is the better option.

Interestingly Hugh Greenwood was on the money when he called this out a few years back

“What a shock!! Someone at the Crows more concerned about disposals than actual impact on the game. Who would have thought,”

Until the club wakes up and realises that Rory Laird getting 30 cheap possessions has zero impact on the game they won't ever move forward. He's been the one constant in a midfield that has struggled for the last few years, but the penny never seems to drop that we can never move forward and develop midfielders if we're not prepared to actually rotate players through the middle.

 

[GreyCrow]

I don't have an issue bringing back Crouch because in my opinion he has more of an impact on the game and is an upgrade on Laird, the reality though is that we can't play both players in the middle at the same time.

The problem is that we're araldited to the flawed concept that possessions are the be all and end all in the midfield and can't see anything else so the club won't ever move Laird out of the middle even though Crouch is the better option.

Interestingly Hugh Greenwood was on the money when he called this out a few years back

“What a shock!! Someone at the Crows more concerned about disposals than actual impact on the game. Who would have thought,”

Until the club wakes up and realises that Rory Laird getting 30 cheap possessions has zero impact on the game they won't ever move forward. He's been the one constant in a midfield that has struggled for the last few years, but the penny never seems to drop that we can never move forward and develop midfielders if we're not prepared to actually rotate players through the middle.

It was interesting to see Laird had 53% time in the middle

 

[George Kramer]

It was interesting to see Laird had 53% time in the middle

Where else did he play?

 

[Danger in Texas]

Where else did he play?

According to his heat map, he seemed to be hovering around wing and half forward?

 

[George Kramer]

According to his heat map, he seemed to be hovering around wing and half forward?

View attachment 1932579

Hes not a winger or half forward, hopefully we move him back if anything. We do need to develop our midfield and a core of Crouch, Laird and Dawson isn’t going to give much opportunity to anyone else.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Hes not a winger or half forward, hopefully we move him back if anything. We do need to develop our midfield and a core of Crouch, Laird and Dawson isn’t going to give much opportunity to anyone else.

I see his average disposal not really standing up at half back these days, honestly. Not enough pace for a wing, but I like resting him forward, I know someone posted those poor goalkicking stats but I can see him being valuable through providing pressure, whilst minimising the need for absolutely elite disposal (see: Keays)

 

[Scorpus]

I remember being concerned when we signed up Laird to a five year contract extension on the back of very little midfield form. I'm sure the thinking was that he could play that role long term, but I was concerned we made that call off too little evidence.

He's still signed to 2026, so if he's not the solution in the midfield and can't find another role, we have to carry him for nearly another three years (or trade him, which we'd never do)

I agree with Danger in Texas that he isn't a modern half back, and personally I don't seem him working as a forward or anywhere else on the ground.

So what I expect will happen is we'll keep Laird and Crouch in the team and our midfield will continue to suffer because of it. We might try Laird (and maybe Crouch if his form dips) in other roles but I expect that to fail and we'll be stuck with another Sloane type whipping boy come the final years of his contract

 

[George Kramer]

But how many contested marks?

Speaking of that, where is Wayne? One bad loss and he seems to be in hiding rather than have to deal with any Nicks criticisms

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This is all well and good but we have to actually play them as midfielders, not keep waiting for the "next year" when it's all supposed to come together

Until we play them as mids, they aren't mids.

And everything we've done so far has been going the other direction, bringing back experience (Crouch) and keeping them in the forward line or elsewhere

Our potential mids seem to take a copious amount of preseasons to develop the tank to play midfield

Is our midfield tank threshold too high?

 

[1990crow]

There's night and day between pre 2020 and post 2020 recruiting.

Galluci, Milera, Fogarty, Jones, McHenry, McAsey vs Thilthorpe, Pedlar, Rachele, Soligo, Rankine, Dawson, Curtin, Michalanney, Edwards

Our best talents are too young to truly push us up quickly. That's the problem.

 

[1990crow]

Our potential mids seem to take a copious amount of preseasons to develop the tank to play midfield

Is our midfield tank threshold too high?

I think you already know the answer to this.

 

[maxlilly]

I remember being concerned when we signed up Laird to a five year contract extension on the back of very little midfield form. I'm sure the thinking was that he could play that role long term, but I was concerned we made that call off too little evidence.

He's still signed to 2026, so if he's not the solution in the midfield and can't find another role, we have to carry him for nearly another three years (or trade him, which we'd never do)

I agree with Danger in Texas that he isn't a modern half back, and personally I don't seem him working as a forward or anywhere else on the ground.

So what I expect will happen is we'll keep Laird and Crouch in the team and our midfield will continue to suffer because of it. We might try Laird (and maybe Crouch if his form dips) in other roles but I expect that to fail and we'll be stuck with another Sloane type whipping boy come the final years of his contract

And at the moment, we have added Sam Berry to the mix which is doubling down again on that type of midfileder

 

[Danger in Texas]

There's night and day between pre 2020 and post 2020 recruiting.

Galluci, Milera, Fogarty, Jones, McHenry, McAsey vs Thilthorpe, Pedlar, Rachele, Soligo, Rankine, Dawson, Curtin, Michalanney, Edwards

Our best talents are too young to truly push us up quickly. That's the problem.

If you’re including Dawson in the post-2020 recruitment, you can include Gibbs in the pre-2020 to swing that side even further out of favour

 

[Danger in Texas]

And at the moment, we have added Sam Berry to the mix which is doubling down again on that type of midfileder

Berry does at least seem to have a bit more of a POD with his explosiveness and increased effectiveness in the forward line

Obviously not the accumulator that those other two are though, and again not the most reliable kick

 

[George Kramer]

Berry does at least seem to have a bit more of a POD with his explosiveness and increased effectiveness in the forward line

Obviously not the accumulator that those other two are though, and again not the most reliable kick

It’s ironic that Burns talked up his marking last week and he dropped the mark that could have drawn the game.

Berry is not the answer to our midfield. Just not good enough

 

[Danger in Texas]

It’s ironic that Burns talked up his marking last week and he dropped the mark that could have drawn the game.

Berry is not the answer to our midfield. Just not good enough

He’s not the answer, but I think he can be a piece. Going off one dropped mark to determine his quality seems to be a bit reactionary

 

[George Kramer]

He’s not the answer, but I think he can be a piece. Going off one dropped mark to determine his quality seems to be a bit reactionary

That’s not what I’m referring to determine his quality. He doesn’t get enough of it, his kicking is sus and doesn’t seem to have much of a football brain.

 

[Danger in Texas]

That’s not what I’m referring to determine his quality. He doesn’t get enough of it, his kicking is sus and doesn’t seem to have much of a football brain.

Again, seems a bit harsh judgement for early in the season, he’s obviously looked good this pre-season and wasn’t near our worst against GC. The only one I’d tend to agree with is that the kicking is historically sus, but even then he went at 78% KE on Saturday night. I definitely don’t know where you’re getting ‘doesn’t have much of a football brain’ from

He’s not the messiah, but I think he can be a cog somewhere down the line

 

[MRB37]

I remember being concerned when we signed up Laird to a five year contract extension on the back of very little midfield form. I'm sure the thinking was that he could play that role long term, but I was concerned we made that call off too little evidence.

He's still signed to 2026, so if he's not the solution in the midfield and can't find another role, we have to carry him for nearly another three years (or trade him, which we'd never do)

I agree with Danger in Texas that he isn't a modern half back, and personally I don't seem him working as a forward or anywhere else on the ground.

So what I expect will happen is we'll keep Laird and Crouch in the team and our midfield will continue to suffer because of it. We might try Laird (and maybe Crouch if his form dips) in other roles but I expect that to fail and we'll be stuck with another Sloane type whipping boy come the final years of his contract

There's an easy role for him back at HB he could slot into, but we seem to refuse to entertain that occuring again.

 

[George Kramer]

Again, seems a bit harsh judgement for early in the season, he’s obviously looked good this pre-season and wasn’t near our worst against GC. The only one I’d tend to agree with is that the kicking is historically sus, but even then he went at 78% KE on Saturday night. I definitely don’t know where you’re getting ‘doesn’t have much of a football brain’ from

He’s not the messiah, but I think he can be a cog somewhere down the line

Ok can you think of any play where you think he’s been creative or clever? It’s get ball and kick it forward

 

[Danger in Texas]

Ok can you think of any play where you think he’s been creative or clever? It’s get ball and kick it forward

I can think of multiple instances where he’s known how to use his strength to his advantage in contest

Not all football brains have to be obviously ‘clever or creative’

 

[CrowToon]

Get a ****ing broom and start again. Our recruiting team have ****ed things up since 2016 and still have a job 8 years later.

We haven't looked decent for 6 seasons now and the most likely scenario is that we need to start again.

We would be doing astoundingly well from here to play finals within a decade of our last appearance.