List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

What should we do with our 1st round draft pick?

  • Finn O’Sullivan

    Votes: 57 19.0%
  • Sid Draper

    Votes: 86 28.7%
  • Josh Smillie

    Votes: 22 7.3%
  • Jagga Smith

    Votes: 34 11.3%
  • Split for best mid and Tobie Travaglia

    Votes: 46 15.3%
  • Split for best mid and Liam Baker

    Votes: 20 6.7%
  • Split for best mid and best KPD

    Votes: 4 1.3%
  • Split for best two mids

    Votes: 9 3.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 13 4.3%
  • Sam Lalor

    Votes: 9 3.0%

  • Total voters
    300
  • This poll will close: .

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If we can bring in English, McCluggage, Perryman & Zurhaar for "nothing" but cap space, you'd be nuts not to.

If we get the same treatment Norf got in 2022 and can flip that for Buss and Baker, we could end up walking into R1 2025 with a new coach and this lineup:

1711890922588.png

Unlikely we could acquire all six targets, but it sounds like we have enough cash to turn their heads and at least get them in the room.

If we did get all 6, I'd say that lineup is a shot at finals as early as 2025.
 
We should make a godfather offer to English to try and get him for free as a free agent. It will have to be so high that the Bulldogs decide that they would rather take the FA compo and save the cap space rather than match it. Might have to make him the highest paid player in the league to have a chance of pulling it off. There is a cost to doing this. Bringing in an import on inflated dollars can upset the rest of your list and encourage them to be unrealistic and mercenary in their own contract negotiations. They would compare themselves to what we pay English and say "if he is worth that then i must be worth this". So it will create spotfires of dissent that we would have to manage. But we are so short of talent and one of the few things we should have going for us is cap space with so few A grade players to pay that i think the juice would worth the squeeze.
Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if the bulldogs would be open to losing him. They've got so many talls that'll be taking up a huge percentage of their cap and Darcy coming through and not really having a spot in the forward line

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You focus on the weak area of English's game but dont acknowledge his strengths.

English around the ground is where he plays the best though. He is a mobile tall that floats and runs to very good areas of the ground to help move the ball as a running player and or as a marking target.

If English played with Bailey I'd let Bailey take centre bounces as play English as a roaming forward who drifts back to help transition out of defense and they swing forward and back to create outlets and provide backup in defense.

He would make us more competitive. But likely won't move West.
To me the strengths are in the wrong area. Square peg round hole. English is better than average for sure, but not what you are after if you describe the key areas a ruck should be proficient in.

As a side note Max Gawn is much more valuable than Grundy as two examples of high level ruckmen whose strengths are very different.

What I would be looking for is:
--------Essential
#1 Win or nullify the hitouts.
#2 Follow up around the contest.
#3 Nous to reposition in an defensive 50 hole, and take marks/spoil the high bail out kicks.
#3a Work to the goal line and spoil it over (Endurance)

-------- Most people would consider a bonus
#4 Accumulate possessions around the ground.
#5 Rest forward and kick the odd goal.
#6 Great skills

#1 For a guy who is close to 210 cm he doesn't win too many hitouts with any great effect. Is almost always beaten in that area though he has improved to make it less of a weakness.
#2 Is useless once the ball hits the deck. He sort of watches on without getting involved.
#3 A real strength has been to get into a defensive hole as a spare. On the flipside after a bit of body pressure he is weak in any 1 on 1 marking contests.
#4 His best strength along with endurance to work his opponent over this way.
#5 Doesn't really do it at all. Most goals are midfield ones running in open play rather than taking up a key post. (Think Mason Cox)
#6 Is fine without being spectacular.

 
The 'English is s**t' take is such a great example of taking a true contrarian opinion, 'English has limitations, especially in the ruck and shouldn't be pursued at any price because he's from WA' - and through group think, taking it to ridiculous lengths.

Where does this board think we're at? We just need bodies, literally anyone that's AFL quality, to make us competitive.

I don't like Baker because he'll cost something but throw a blanket over the RFAs. Spending cap space is the only way we can improve without ruining our rebuild.

English, McCluggage ofc but it's not happening, ******* Zurhaar - get whoever we can get.

Because if we stay this uncompetitive - and it's going to get worse with retirements - there is zero chance Reid or any non-West Australian will stay.
The problem being that we spend up to get average. Essentially what the AFL wants.

North while being terrible have now got a crazy stacked list all within a small age bracket and will boom sooner or later. And they still stuffed up a bunch of top 20 picks.

We are horrible but if we just want to be competitive again then we will have wasted an opportunity to really cash in on bringing in talent. Personally I hate finishing in the 7-10 bracket as you are just spinning your wheels.

See: St Kilda & Essendon who though bringing in big trades to an average list would move the needle.
 
If we can bring in English, McCluggage, Perryman & Zurhaar for "nothing" but cap space, you'd be nuts not to.

If we get the same treatment Norf got in 2022 and can flip that for Buss and Baker, we could end up walking into R1 2025 with a new coach and this lineup:

View attachment 1945858

Unlikely we could acquire all six targets, but it sounds like we have enough cash to turn their heads and at least get them in the room.

If we did get all 6, I'd say that lineup is a shot at finals as early as 2025.
When we look at who is out of contract this year i am not sure anyone deserves a huge pay rise and most are very close to delist material. If we have cap space we need to look at every avenue to improve our list.
I hope for the following. Our pick 19 needs to be pick 19 and not drift to pick 30 after academies and father and sons.
We need to get access to our academy player from pick 20 and not pick 40.
I am also open to getting two compo picks in the second or third round area and bag Busslinger and Baker.
 
What would you guys do this off season with our out of contract players? This is what I’d do

Witherden - no contract
Gaff - no contract
Burgiel - 2 year deal
Yeo - 1/2 year deal depending on how many games he plays this season
Barnett - 2 year deal
H.Edwards - 1 year deal (his last chance), wouldn’t be opposed to not offering him a contact though
J.Williams - 1 year deal
Culley - 2 year deal
Jones - no contract
Baker - 1 year deal
Rotham - no contract
Duggan - honestly, I hope he leaves but that won’t happen, fine with him staying
Rawlinson - 1 year deal
L.Edwards - no contract
Dewar - 2 year deal
Trew - no contract
 
When we look at who is out of contract this year i am not sure anyone deserves a huge pay rise and most are very close to delist material. If we have cap space we need to look at every avenue to improve our list.
I hope for the following. Our pick 19 needs to be pick 19
Hate to break it to you, but your pick 19 is starting at pick 21, because of the future end of first round PP’s north was handed last year.
and not drift to pick 30 after academies and father and sons.
We need to get access to our academy player from pick 20 and not pick 40.
I am also open to getting two compo picks in the second or third round area and bag Busslinger and Baker.
 
What would you guys do this off season with our out of contract players? This is what I’d do

Witherden - no contract
Gaff - no contract
Burgiel - 2 year deal
Yeo - 1/2 year deal depending on how many games he plays this season
Barnett - 2 year deal
H.Edwards - 1 year deal (his last chance), wouldn’t be opposed to not offering him a contact though
J.Williams - 1 year deal
Culley - 2 year deal
Jones - no contract
Baker - 1 year deal
Rotham - no contract
Duggan - honestly, I hope he leaves but that won’t happen, fine with him staying
Rawlinson - 1 year deal
L.Edwards - no contract
Dewar - 2 year deal
Trew - no contract
Nailed it imo but a bit to play out.

Any word on Yeo signing? Compo pick is not going to be great if he leaves
 

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If we can bring in English, McCluggage, Perryman & Zurhaar for "nothing" but cap space, you'd be nuts not to.

If we get the same treatment Norf got in 2022 and can flip that for Buss and Baker, we could end up walking into R1 2025 with a new coach and this lineup:

View attachment 1945858

Unlikely we could acquire all six targets, but it sounds like we have enough cash to turn their heads and at least get them in the room.

If we did get all 6, I'd say that lineup is a shot at finals as early as 2025.

Don’t think we a chance of English/Zurhaar/Glug.

Definitely try and get Perryman and Cumming over the line. Exactly what we need.

Agreed get the North assistance package and trade it for Baker and Busslinger.

Pyke to get into Sheldrick ear and put a deal in front of him he request a trade. This will cost our 2nd pick as a min though.

Im not sure there is a team we can currently split with. GC is the best chance if they finish bottom 5 but I can’t see it with their soft draw. Pick 1 for their 3 first round picks.


Buss- Barrass- Hough
Cumming- Gov- Duggan
Hunt- Yeo - Perryman
Brockman- Williams - Reid
Ryan- Allen- Waterman
Flynn- Kelly- Baker
B- Ginbey- Hewett- Sheldrick- Cripps
Sub- S Draper
 
What would you guys do this off season with our out of contract players? This is what I’d do

Witherden - no contract
Gaff - no contract
Burgiel - 2 year deal
Yeo - 1/2 year deal depending on how many games he plays this season
Barnett - 2 year deal
H.Edwards - 1 year deal (his last chance), wouldn’t be opposed to not offering him a contact though
J.Williams - 1 year deal
Culley - 2 year deal
Jones - no contract
Baker - 1 year deal
Rotham - no contract
Duggan - honestly, I hope he leaves but that won’t happen, fine with him staying
Rawlinson - 1 year deal
L.Edwards - no contract
Dewar - 2 year deal
Trew - no contract
Absolutely spot on. I’d definitely delist HEdwarss he’s had long enough. Baker is delist and Dewar I’d only offer 1 year. Yeo I’d rather offer 2 years and keep him as opposed to one year and have him choose to leave instead. Culley we’d have to assume has a solid year of going to offer him a further 2 year.

The delists are no brainers and we may need to cut deeper to include Dewar and/or contracted players depending on MSD, trades, FA and splitting picks.
 
To me the strengths are in the wrong area. Square peg round hole. English is better than average for sure, but not what you are after if you describe the key areas a ruck should be proficient in.

As a side note Max Gawn is much more valuable than Grundy as two examples of high level ruckmen whose strengths are very different.

What I would be looking for is:
--------Essential
#1 Win or nullify the hitouts.
#2 Follow up around the contest.
#3 Nous to reposition in an defensive 50 hole, and take marks/spoil the high bail out kicks.
#3a Work to the goal line and spoil it over (Endurance)

-------- Most people would consider a bonus
#4 Accumulate possessions around the ground.
#5 Rest forward and kick the odd goal.
#6 Great skills

#1 For a guy who is close to 210 cm he doesn't win too many hitouts with any great effect. Is almost always beaten in that area though he has improved to make it less of a weakness.
#2 Is useless once the ball hits the deck. He sort of watches on without getting involved.
#3 A real strength has been to get into a defensive hole as a spare. On the flipside after a bit of body pressure he is weak in any 1 on 1 marking contests.
#4 His best strength along with endurance to work his opponent over this way.
#5 Doesn't really do it at all. Most goals are midfield ones running in open play rather than taking up a key post. (Think Mason Cox)
#6 Is fine without being spectacular.

So English excels at 5 out if 6 or these areas you rate as important. And Bailey excels in the one area English is average, centre bounce taps.

Sounds like a bloody good ruck duo to me. You've just described why English and Baikey would work very well in tandum.

The only ruck better than English atm is a 32 yr old Gawn.
 
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We really can’t rely solely on the draft to get ourselves out of this.

Drafting 18 year olds isn’t going to move the needle for a number of years while they develop.

We need to thicken the soup as they say, which means bringing in 22-26 year olds via trade and free agency. We need to stabilise our list.

Folks on this board aren’t going to like using picks on trade targets but we are going to be down the bottom for another 3-4 years, so we will have access to high end talent in future drafts.

Throw bags of money at blokes like Perryman and Cumming on front ended deals.

Try and get Busslinger from Western Bulldogs.

Go hard at guys like Rivers and McVee who are proven AFL talent and would make an immediate difference.

Baker is a no brainer.

We really have until the end of next year to become competitive on field- not even winning- just competitive-, at which point retention starts becoming an issue.
 
Paying for English means we cant get someone else in a position of need as we are paying English too much $$$.
Perhaps we also also lose Burgiel/Williams who would be in line for a pay rise.
How?

We have up to $7 m in free cap space available over the next 2-3 years.

$3m being the CBA increase not allocated. And 5 guys on $800k who likely wont be playing in 2026 27. Gaff will be gone this year. Darling next year. Gov, Yeo and Barrass likely wont be around in 2027.

How is getting English even on $1.5m for 3 years then dropping down to $1m going to stop us getting any other players? We front end contracts for three years and then that backs off when Ried and the other kids start deserving pay rises.
 
Elijah Hollands, Bramble, Bonner and Mass to name a few who would make a difference at all came for free or cheap. Should be aggressive at this strategy as well as FA and draft.
 
I think Harry Edwards deserves another run at it.

Before being injured his 2022 was semi ok.

Averaged as many touches at Chessers getting and 6 marks a game from the backline.



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He does. And as a minimum we should give Harry a decent run at it even if its the last 8 games and see if he can hold a spot or attract some interest elsewhere. Tall defenders are becoming a rare comodity. North will be looking long and wide for tall backs as will others.
 
Elijah Hollands, Bramble, Bonner and Mass to name a few who would make a difference at all came for free or cheap. Should be aggressive at this strategy as well as FA and draft.

Bonner at the Saints is annoying. A free hit for a 26 year old rebounding defender with a big kick. We wouldnt have been interested as we have Cole and Duggan however I'd rather have Bonner than Cole.

It does show though you can pick up reasonable quality eole players for little cost.

One issue with Bonner is he has a long kick which is obviously part of Ross Lyons game pkan however he is a tad predictable and often his kicks are marked by the opposition rucks set up just outside forward 50.
 
please no talk of quick turnarounds into finals.

We know it's gonna be min 5 years from now to get semi decent again

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The talk is about becoming competitive not finals.

If that doesnt happen wave goodbye to Ried and any other interstate top draftees. And then we will start going in circles losing players just as they hit their peak years like Freo, GWS, Gold Coast and North all did for 10 years.
 
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