Roast How diabolical is our midfield?

[Kane McGoodwin]

We need to make a decision on Rankine and Rachelle. One of them has to become a midfielder and a star midfielder. We cannot have used a top 5 and a top 6 on 2 small forwards who play a little bit of midfield, that would diabolical list management.

Given Rankine has the tank it needs to be him.
Rachelle stays at home as a gun small forward.

Pedlar can be the hybrid for now but he needs midfield time otherwise we’ve blown another high draft pick. But with the view of being a full time mid next year. Surely he’s fit enough by then.

Taylor needs to be given a go.
Dowling needs to be given a go.
Curtin needs to play.

Laird and Crouch both can’t be in the midfield together.

Starting midfield:

Dawson, Crouch, Soligo
Rotating with Laird, Rankine and Pedlar

Curtin to the wing
Nank on the wing

Agree with most of this... but imo Rachele more than Rankine is suited to more midfield minutes. Both should have significant midfield time. Rankine attends CBA's & runs forward. Rachele minimum 30% midfield time. Pedlar should also be minimum 25% midfield time.

We should be rotating more players through to get the different mixes.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yeah but the coaching staff need to forget about the immediate results and focus on what’s best for the club.

Because the immediate results are awesome.

What is best for the club in the future may in fact be the best for the club now...

 

[huludicidal]

The Crows have only finished bottom 3 once in the history of the club. Certainly can't see it happening both this year and next. We almost certainly won't make finals after this start but will finish somewhere from 10th to 15th, same as the last three years.

So your argument for avoiding a 16th-18th placed finish centres around “it’s only happened once before” (with the current coach and several core players)?

Go through the fixture and try to find more than 5 games that we’ll actually win this year. Wins don’t just occur, you have to outplay an opponent for more than half a game and convert it on the scoreboard. Doing that when you have an historically bad midfield is pretty tough.

Not to mention some of the guys we have running around who don’t attend many stoppages such as Brodie Smith, Chayce Jones, Patrick Parnell, Ned McHenry, Lachie Murphy, Luke Pedlar, Jordon Butts, James Borlase, Lachie Sholl etc - these players are not up to it and are playing consistently poor to mediocre football. Will Hamill, Elliott Himmelberg, Kieran Strachan, Lachie Gollant and Hugh Bond aren’t going to come in and save the day.

5 and 18 is my best guess. That nets you a bottom 3 finish every year. That’s 5 and 14 from this point on, with 2 games to come against Sydney, 2 against Port, 2 against Brisbane, plus away games against the Pies, Cats and Blues. Are we going to beat the rampaging Giants at Adelaide Oval? No, we aren’t.

Not sure how it would improve significantly next year given the state of our current midfield, and the lack of elite options that exist on the market who would be willing to give up playing for a contending team to come and play for a losing team with a horrendous coaching group.

 

[NSolis]

No, that's not my argument. My argument is the team is nowhere near bottom 3 quality, we're a notably improved team from 2021 for example and we didn't finish bottom 3 then. The quality of play against Melbourne would be good enough to beat a range of sides and I don't see any reason that can't be produced again.

In terms of how many games the Crows will win, my guess would be something like 7-9. Most of the home games are winnable and I think North, Hawthorn and Essendon away are as well. Obviously not saying we will in all of those (that would be around 13 wins and a shot at finals) but I'm guessing at least half.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Look, a dramatic change in game plan and form is still possible, a la Carlton last year, and a number of guys could come out of their form slump compared to last year (Daws, Hinge, Fog, Tex, Rachele), but how likely is all that? I can’t see huge improvements myself

 

[1970crow]

Unfortunately Peds can't find the ball, imo very obe sided and lacks lateral movement in tight. Needs to start getting at least 20 possessions a game in SANFL

I'm not convinced that making players prove they're SANFL midfielders before playing AFL midfield has been a winning strategy.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

WaynesWorld19 - give a reason why you disagreed with my post.

 

[BunjiMac]

I recall Clarkson throwing Burger in the middle in the last 5 minutes of a game against us and he willed them across the line

It annoyed me how many times Clarkson chose the perfect time to inject Burger into the middle to our detriment.

He seemed to have a knack of knowing exactly when.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

WaynesWorld19 - give a reason why you disagreed with my post.

Rachele has looked bog ordinary .....you've been blinded by the odd flashy play

There's no consistency in his game .....no defensive intent ....and last week, no spacial awareness

To suggest Rachele play midfield is folly ....until such time as his performances warrant it, and he can two-way run

Soligo demonstrates more X-Factor than Rachele .....Rachele's been a huge disappointment for a high Draft Pick

 

[FR0GGY]

Rachele has looked bog ordinary .....you've been blinded by the odd flashy play

There's no consistency in his game .....no defensive intent ....and last week, no spacial awareness

To suggest Rachele play midfield is folly ....until such time as his performances warrant it, and he can two-way run

Soligo demonstrates more X-Factor than Rachele .....Rachele's been a huge disappointment for a high Draft Pick

Sog has always played up the ground.
The coaches need to stop trying to go for wins every week and let the players learn in the spots we want them to eventually play.
Of course sog is going to look better when you’re around the ball more.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Rachele has looked bog ordinary .....you've been blinded by the odd flashy play

There's no consistency in his game .....no defensive intent ....and last week, no spacial awareness

To suggest Rachele play midfield is folly ....until such time as his performances warrant it, and he can two-way run

Soligo demonstrates more X-Factor than Rachele .....Rachele's been a huge disappointment for a high Draft Pick

Is it easier to get consistency as a midfielder or small forward?

Rachele is being wasted being used as a full-time forward.

Compare to the same time last year, when he was averaging more than 20 disposals & a goal per game with significant midfield time.

Imo, your posting in the last few weeks has been way off the mark.

 

[huludicidal]

No, that's not my argument. My argument is the team is nowhere near bottom 3 quality, we're a notably improved team from 2021 for example and we didn't finish bottom 3 then. The quality of play against Melbourne would be good enough to beat a range of sides and I don't see any reason that can't be produced again.

In terms of how many games the Crows will win, my guess would be something like 7-9. Most of the home games are winnable and I think North, Hawthorn and Essendon away are as well. Obviously not saying we will in all of those (that would be around 13 wins and a shot at finals) but I'm guessing at least half.

Well, 3 of our 4 games so far have been against sides who missed the 8 last year, and the other game was a home game against a team who had one of the most horrendous offseasons in living memory after being bundled out the finals in straight sets for the 2nd consecutive year, and we didn’t win any of those, so call me a pessimist but saying that 13 of our remaining games are winnable, and that we’ll win 7-9 of them seems like a case of ignoring the evidence in front of you to me.

As for the improvements since 2021 - we aren’t still in 2023 here when Tex and Hinge were playing out of their skins, Thilthorpe was fully fit, Smith and Laird were less cooked than they now are, and we were moving the ball quickly at all costs - all we can focus on is the here and now, and what this side has shown in the first 4 games of 2024 is the following:

1) a completely new, slow, chip-chiparoo game plan that has led to us being the lowest scoring team in the afl thus far, despite not playing any of the 4 prelim finalists from 2023 yet which you’d think would be the toughest tests most of the time on average. In 2023 we were 1st in points scored. Top of the tree. We are now 18th. The most unbelievable part about implementing such a drastic change in game style which has killed our one and only strength is that we have arguably the worst skill level by foot in the entire league, so this particular type of gameplan could not possibly suit any team less than it suits us. Turnovers in dangerous parts of the ground are inevitable when you combine that plan with our playing list, and the scores against from turnovers will tell you all you need to know about how that’s going.

2) We haven’t played either of the 2 form teams of the comp yet (GWS and Sydney, who are absolute locks to go through to prelims) or either of last year’s grand finalists. We have 6 games remaining against those 4 sides. We are no chance of winning any of those 6 games. Zero. We also have 2 games remaining against Port who look a genuine top 4-6 side, who unlike us have clearly improved since last year. The upcoming away game against Carlton (who look poised to play another prelim this year), and the games later in the season against the Pies at the G and Cats at Kardinia Park are going to be truly painful to watch. We can’t beat GWS at Adelaide oval when we’re going well - imagine what they’ll do to us this year when we are going like this and they are rightly premiership favourites. We couldn’t beat the Bombers at Marvel last year - why on earth would we reverse that this year? Etc etc.

3) Tex has maybe a dozen afl games left in him. Smith has 0 and is a panicked mess. Sloane has 0. Laird looks completely done as an AFL quality midfielder, and where else on the ground can you hide a 173cm player who is slow and can’t kick in 2024? Berry looks like never evolving into an AFL quality midfielder. Sholl, McHenry, Murphy, Smith and Jones are an embarrassment to the jumper - two of them were first round picks which could’ve been Butters and Rowbottom. Milera’s career could now be over. Thilthorpe is injury-prone. Hinge is a headless chook whose very strong 2nd half of 2023 was clearly the exception rather than the rule. Rachele looks like he’s about to throw a tantrum and has the intensity of a sloth. The general delivery to the forwards is atrocious. Our leadership group is littered with players who shouldn’t even be in the AFL. You look at the SANFL side and besides Curtin, Taylor and Dowling, the cupboard is pretty bare. None of those 3 have ever played an AFL game, so who knows if they’ll actually make a difference at all. Point of my story - the playing list is absolutely ****ed.

4) We’ve managed to bounce the ball 4 times in 4 games. Yes, our entire team has a total of 4 running bounces of the football in 4 games - you’ll be shocked to learn that is less than any other team, and that there are multiple teams who have exceeded 40. At least one of those bounces was Milera who is now finished. This outlines the completely stagnant, boring, stale gameplan, and the lack of players we have who are willing or mentally able to take the game on.

5) Our coach is now a proven idiot and unlike previous years, there are now clearly players who aren’t playing for him. His assistants have been shown up as the worst group of assistants in the entire league. Seriously, Mick Godden and Van Berlo is the best we can do? Is this club taking the piss out of us? I suppose when 5 of your 8 “leaders” are Lachie Murphy, Wayne Milera, Ben Keays, Mitch Hinge and Brodie Smith, we should already know the answer to that. They would be the leaders of a SANFL side if we hadn’t botched countless drafts with selections based on how nice players’ families are. Losing Rahilly back to Geelong has clearly been a massive loss - would be the equivalent of Port losing Josh Carr and let’s face it, Josh Carr coaches Port while Kenny rubs their knees and tells them he loves them on the bench.

6) the midfield has regressed to literally being the worst in the league. Stats don’t lie. The numbers of EFFECTIVE clearances that lead to scores are historically low - we are again ranked 18th in the league for this. And that’s because we don’t have enough talent. And that’s because we’ve recruited a black hole in there. Hat tip to Hamish who has literally never drafted an afl quality midfielder with a top 20 draft pick in his entire reign of terror as head recruiter. Not one. Jack MacRae would walk in to our best 18 and come close to winning a club champion award. He can’t make the starting midfield of a non-finals team. Port’s 4th best mid is better than our 2nd best mid. GWS have players in their reserves who would be top 10 players for us. Etc

7) Other clubs have completely worked us out. Apply pressure to the ball carrier and the honest triers with little talent wilt and cough it up. Has worked in 4 of 4 games so far. Will the super coaches and super leaders and super midfield overcome this moving forward? I’m betting on no.



The only positives so far this year for me are the ongoing improvement of Soligo, the fact that we FINALLY selected Nankervis in Rd 4 (just imagine the level of stupidity involved in thinking BOTH of Sholl and Jones were better options in the first 3 games), the promising signs from Keane and the fact that maybe us being THIS bad will result in some of the cancers at the club being fired.

We are never returning to finals as long as any of Nicks, Van Berlo, Godden, Ricciuto, Hamish Ogilvie, Brodie Smith, Lachie Murphy, Ned McHenry, Lachie Sholl or Rory Laird have anything to do with the AFL team, so the sooner we clear out this trash, the better. Not to mention the garbage we have at the bottom of our list such as Himmelberg, Bond, Hamill, Parnell and Strachan. And that still doesn’t address the lack of midfield talent on the list outside of Dawson and Soligo. Rachele will never be a mid. Rankine will only ever be a part-time mid. Everyone else is either proven trash, or a flanker.


Feel free to bump this post when we win our 7th game this season though, I’ll cop that if it happens and maybe there’ll be some significant form reversals and fairytale stories that drive it. Murray and Thilthorpe returning should provide something, but neither of them are going to help the midfield chasm of talent. Even in 2020-21, I could see more positives than this, and the rebuild was taking shape. There is nothing taking shape at the moment other than a complete disaster.

 

[Cap]

Rachele has looked bog ordinary .....you've been blinded by the odd flashy play

There's no consistency in his game .....no defensive intent ....and last week, no spacial awareness

To suggest Rachele play midfield is folly ....until such time as his performances warrant it, and he can two-way run

Soligo demonstrates more X-Factor than Rachele .....Rachele's been a huge disappointment for a high Draft Pick

You sound like you are describing a Rookie player finding their way in the AFL

 

[Sanders]

I wonder if the club look at the 'data' for our midfield ?

I wonder if they look at anything else?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You sound like you are describing a Rookie player finding their way in the AFL

Stop it ....you're simply adding weight to my argument

Here's the comparison of 3rd year Rachele versus 3rd year Toby Greene .....and where was Greene playing

The comparisons are undeserved .....will Rachele be a good player, yes ! .....but not to the hype around him

What was my point again around defensive actions ? ......Rachele ave 1.5 tackles versus 4.1 ....and that's where Greene got a lot of his turnovers / goals

Then look at goal assists ...clearances ...and turnovers

 

[maxlilly]

I wonder if they look at anything else?

Hopefully opposition intercepts

 

[BigBoSS_Riot]

Stop it ....you're simply adding weight to my argument

Here's the comparison of 3rd year Rachele versus 3rd year Toby Greene .....and where was Greene playing

The comparisons are undeserved .....will Rachele be a good player, yes ! .....but not to the hype around him

What was my point again around defensive actions ? ......Rachele ave 1.5 tackles versus 4.1 ....and that's where Greene got a lot of his turnovers / goals

Then look at goal assists ...clearances ...and turnovers

View attachment 1953003

The complaint from many on here has been that Rachele isn't getting enough midfield time, and you bring up his lack of clearances?

He can't get clearances if he's never in a position to do so in the first place.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The complaint from many on here has been that Rachele isn't getting enough midfield time, and you bring up his lack of clearances?

He can't get clearances if he's never in a position to do so in the first place.

Do you realise how clearances are obtained .....doesn't have to be a CBA

Do you think Greene was playing midfield ?

 

[adelaidecrows]

The complaint from many on here has been that Rachele isn't getting enough midfield time, and you bring up his lack of clearances?

He can't get clearances if he's never in a position to do so in the first place.

Or maybe we should ask ourselves why isn't he playing midfield minutes?

Maybe he just isn't a natural midfielder and in the heat of battle during match sim he simply isn't performing. Why would the coaches put someone into the middle who can't win the ball?

 

[huludicidal]

Do you realise how clearances are obtained .....doesn't have to be a CBA

Do you think Greene was playing midfield ?

Do you think Greene wasn’t playing midfield? For crying out loud man, stop posting.

 

[Orange crush]

Do you realise how clearances are obtained .....doesn't have to be a CBA

Do you think Greene was playing midfield ?

Yep ... he played pretty much full time in the mids the first 2-3 years

 

[George Kramer]

Do you realise how clearances are obtained .....doesn't have to be a CBA

Do you think Greene was playing midfield ?

So you think the coaches instructions are for Rachelle to go into stoppages and win clearances, to create another body at a stoppage competing with our mids and not being there to receive the clearance? Is that it?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Do you think Greene wasn’t playing midfield? For crying out loud man, stop posting.

If you're going to sprout off ......try and get your facts correct

I was referring to their stats at the same age (2014) ......I have no doubt you didn't read the post, or have any factual information .....you obviously do not know what you're talking about

 

[Drummond]

Rachele has looked bog ordinary .....you've been blinded by the odd flashy play

There's no consistency in his game .....no defensive intent ....and last week, no spacial awareness

To suggest Rachele play midfield is folly ....until such time as his performances warrant it, and he can two-way run

Soligo demonstrates more X-Factor than Rachele .....Rachele's been a huge disappointment for a high Draft Pick

I can’t believe I’m agreeing with you!

Rachele is overrated. I don’t see this elite talent. Seemed like a reach at his draft position.

 

[George Kramer]

If you're going to sprout off ......try and get your facts correct

I was referring to their stats at the same age (2014) ......I have no doubt you didn't read the post, or have any factual information .....you obviously do not know what you're talking about

View attachment 1953079

Where are his clearance numbers?