Roast How diabolical is our midfield?

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WaynesWorld19 said:
If you're going to sprout off ......try and get your facts correct

I was referring to their stats at the same age (2014) ......I have no doubt you didn't read the post, or have any factual information .....you obviously do not know what you're talking about

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Hahaha yeah CBA percentages weren’t recorded prior to 2020 you dead shit. Hence there not being 0s there, and just blank lines.

Toby Greene played far more midfield time in his early years than he does now. You have once again made a fool of yourself.
 
Does this blithering fool really think Toby Greene averaged 28 touches a game as a rookie and didn’t play in the midfield? Must have really regressed as a player since to only now average 17 😂
 

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huludicidal said:
Hahaha yeah CBA percentages weren’t recorded prior to 2020 you dead s**t. Hence there not being 0s there, and just blank lines.

Toby Greene played far more midfield time in his early years than he does now. You have once again made a fool of yourself.
Click to expand...

Have to agree. Wayne doing Wayne things. Again

Greene was drafted as a midfielder and played as a pure mid early doors
 
huludicidal said:
Well, 3 of our 4 games so far have been against sides who missed the 8 last year, and the other game was a home game against a team who had one of the most horrendous offseasons in living memory after being bundled out the finals in straight sets for the 2nd consecutive year, and we didn’t win any of those, so call me a pessimist but saying that 13 of our remaining games are winnable, and that we’ll win 7-9 of them seems like a case of ignoring the evidence in front of you to me.

As for the improvements since 2021 - we aren’t still in 2023 here when Tex and Hinge were playing out of their skins, Thilthorpe was fully fit, Smith and Laird were less cooked than they now are, and we were moving the ball quickly at all costs - all we can focus on is the here and now, and what this side has shown in the first 4 games of 2024 is the following:

1) a completely new, slow, chip-chiparoo game plan that has led to us being the lowest scoring team in the afl thus far, despite not playing any of the 4 prelim finalists from 2023 yet which you’d think would be the toughest tests most of the time on average. In 2023 we were 1st in points scored. Top of the tree. We are now 18th. The most unbelievable part about implementing such a drastic change in game style which has killed our one and only strength is that we have arguably the worst skill level by foot in the entire league, so this particular type of gameplan could not possibly suit any team less than it suits us. Turnovers in dangerous parts of the ground are inevitable when you combine that plan with our playing list, and the scores against from turnovers will tell you all you need to know about how that’s going.

2) We haven’t played either of the 2 form teams of the comp yet (GWS and Sydney, who are absolute locks to go through to prelims) or either of last year’s grand finalists. We have 6 games remaining against those 4 sides. We are no chance of winning any of those 6 games. Zero. We also have 2 games remaining against Port who look a genuine top 4-6 side, who unlike us have clearly improved since last year. The upcoming away game against Carlton (who look poised to play another prelim this year), and the games later in the season against the Pies at the G and Cats at Kardinia Park are going to be truly painful to watch. We can’t beat GWS at Adelaide oval when we’re going well - imagine what they’ll do to us this year when we are going like this and they are rightly premiership favourites. We couldn’t beat the Bombers at Marvel last year - why on earth would we reverse that this year? Etc etc.

3) Tex has maybe a dozen afl games left in him. Smith has 0 and is a panicked mess. Sloane has 0. Laird looks completely done as an AFL quality midfielder, and where else on the ground can you hide a 173cm player who is slow and can’t kick in 2024? Berry looks like never evolving into an AFL quality midfielder. Sholl, McHenry, Murphy, Smith and Jones are an embarrassment to the jumper - two of them were first round picks which could’ve been Butters and Rowbottom. Milera’s career could now be over. Thilthorpe is injury-prone. Hinge is a headless chook whose very strong 2nd half of 2023 was clearly the exception rather than the rule. Rachele looks like he’s about to throw a tantrum and has the intensity of a sloth. The general delivery to the forwards is atrocious. Our leadership group is littered with players who shouldn’t even be in the AFL. You look at the SANFL side and besides Curtin, Taylor and Dowling, the cupboard is pretty bare. None of those 3 have ever played an AFL game, so who knows if they’ll actually make a difference at all. Point of my story - the playing list is absolutely ****ed.

4) We’ve managed to bounce the ball 4 times in 4 games. Yes, our entire team has a total of 4 running bounces of the football in 4 games - you’ll be shocked to learn that is less than any other team, and that there are multiple teams who have exceeded 40. At least one of those bounces was Milera who is now finished. This outlines the completely stagnant, boring, stale gameplan, and the lack of players we have who are willing or mentally able to take the game on.

5) Our coach is now a proven idiot and unlike previous years, there are now clearly players who aren’t playing for him. His assistants have been shown up as the worst group of assistants in the entire league. Seriously, Mick Godden and Van Berlo is the best we can do? Is this club taking the piss out of us? I suppose when 5 of your 8 “leaders” are Lachie Murphy, Wayne Milera, Ben Keays, Mitch Hinge and Brodie Smith, we should already know the answer to that. They would be the leaders of a SANFL side if we hadn’t botched countless drafts with selections based on how nice players’ families are. Losing Rahilly back to Geelong has clearly been a massive loss - would be the equivalent of Port losing Josh Carr and let’s face it, Josh Carr coaches Port while Kenny rubs their knees and tells them he loves them on the bench.

6) the midfield has regressed to literally being the worst in the league. Stats don’t lie. The numbers of EFFECTIVE clearances that lead to scores are historically low - we are again ranked 18th in the league for this. And that’s because we don’t have enough talent. And that’s because we’ve recruited a black hole in there. Hat tip to Hamish who has literally never drafted an afl quality midfielder with a top 20 draft pick in his entire reign of terror as head recruiter. Not one. Jack MacRae would walk in to our best 18 and come close to winning a club champion award. He can’t make the starting midfield of a non-finals team. Port’s 4th best mid is better than our 2nd best mid. GWS have players in their reserves who would be top 10 players for us. Etc

7) Other clubs have completely worked us out. Apply pressure to the ball carrier and the honest triers with little talent wilt and cough it up. Has worked in 4 of 4 games so far. Will the super coaches and super leaders and super midfield overcome this moving forward? I’m betting on no.



The only positives so far this year for me are the ongoing improvement of Soligo, the fact that we FINALLY selected Nankervis in Rd 4 (just imagine the level of stupidity involved in thinking BOTH of Sholl and Jones were better options in the first 3 games), the promising signs from Keane and the fact that maybe us being THIS bad will result in some of the cancers at the club being fired.

We are never returning to finals as long as any of Nicks, Van Berlo, Godden, Ricciuto, Hamish Ogilvie, Brodie Smith, Lachie Murphy, Ned McHenry, Lachie Sholl or Rory Laird have anything to do with the AFL team, so the sooner we clear out this trash, the better. Not to mention the garbage we have at the bottom of our list such as Himmelberg, Bond, Hamill, Parnell and Strachan. And that still doesn’t address the lack of midfield talent on the list outside of Dawson and Soligo. Rachele will never be a mid. Rankine will only ever be a part-time mid. Everyone else is either proven trash, or a flanker.


Feel free to bump this post when we win our 7th game this season though, I’ll cop that if it happens and maybe there’ll be some significant form reversals and fairytale stories that drive it. Murray and Thilthorpe returning should provide something, but neither of them are going to help the midfield chasm of talent. Even in 2020-21, I could see more positives than this, and the rebuild was taking shape. There is nothing taking shape at the moment other than a complete disaster.
Click to expand...
I agree that most of the problems you're talking about exist - the team is 0-4 so obviously a lot is going wrong. I think you're over-reaching in some cases, for example I think Walker has more than a dozen games left and I think it's too early to write off some players. But for the most part yeah, the first three weeks in particular were extremely poor and lots of things need improvement.

In terms of why I think bottom 3 is very unlikely, I think you're making some big reads which aren't justified at this point in the season. I don't personally think that the drop from highest scoring team to second lowest scoring is representative of the scoring threat the team possesses, and I think it's too early to judge the quality of the opposition that we've played so far or will play in future weeks. Adelaide went 9-4 last year at Adelaide Oval with two of the losses being by a point. I don't think we are likely to drop from that to losing a clear majority of home games which would be required to have such a bad year.

Anyway as you say we'll know more soon enough, but I think you'll find that Adelaide in 2024 is just a mediocre mid-table side, not some sub-5 win basket case.
 
WaynesWorld19 said:
Do you realise how clearances are obtained .....doesn't have to be a CBA

Do you think Greene was playing midfield ?
Click to expand...

Yes he was playing predominantly midfield and there is a key stat in there that confirms it.

If Greene was averaging 28 possessions a game but was only averaging 0.5 goals a game, I’d say he was failing massively as a forward.

Why aren’t you making a comparison with Greene now and Rachele now given Greene now spends his time up forward and only gets 17 odd possessions per game the last 5 years.
 
Drummond said:
Yeah, clearly :laughv1:
Click to expand...

The problem with Rachele is he is lost. He never developed his forward craft and was relying on his talent and now he is basically thrown in position away from goal. Yes he will be a good, clever player around goal. I see a lot of Robbie Gray in him. But he needs to develop his game first and this is where Nicks is not doing a good job. The constant movement of players to plug defensive gaps during games and the slow movement of the ball is not developing our young players.
 
kirky said:
Yes he was playing predominantly midfield and there is a key stat in there that confirms it.

If Greene was averaging 28 possessions a game but was only averaging 0.5 goals a game, I’d say he was failing massively as a forward.

Why aren’t you making a comparison with Greene now and Rachele now given Greene now spends his time up forward and only gets 17 odd possessions per game the last 5 years.
Click to expand...
Surely you’re not expecting a reply now that he realises he’s wrong?
 
Speaking of Toby Greene, to rub salt in the wounds and add to the tale of Crows ****ups, Rendell wanted to trade Tippett to Brisbane in 2011, it would have included their pick 8. Greene went pick 11.

Now no guarantee we would have picked him but Rendell was in charge, not the Hamish muppet
 

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Drummond said:
I can’t believe I’m agreeing with you! :eek:

Rachele is overrated. I don’t see this elite talent. Seemed like a reach at his draft position.
Click to expand...
Go back and watch when he first started with us. He had elite talent.
He's just been coached in the 'Crows way' now.
We've ruined him.
 
George Kramer said:
Speaking of Toby Greene, to rub salt in the wounds and add to the tale of Crows *ups, Rendell wanted to trade Tippett to Brisbane in 2011, it would have included their pick 8. Greene went pick 11.

Now no guarantee we would have picked him but Rendell was in charge, not the Hamish muppet
Click to expand...

Greene was definitely a player we were linked to
 
adelaidecrows said:
The problem with Rachele is he is lost. He never developed his forward craft and was relying on his talent and now he is basically thrown in position away from goal. Yes he will be a good, clever player around goal. I see a lot of Robbie Gray in him. But he needs to develop his game first and this is where Nicks is not doing a good job. The constant movement of players to plug defensive gaps during games and the slow movement of the ball is not developing our young players.
Click to expand...
Rachele would be great at another club
 
huludicidal said:
Well, 3 of our 4 games so far have been against sides who missed the 8 last year, and the other game was a home game against a team who had one of the most horrendous offseasons in living memory after being bundled out the finals in straight sets for the 2nd consecutive year, and we didn’t win any of those, so call me a pessimist but saying that 13 of our remaining games are winnable, and that we’ll win 7-9 of them seems like a case of ignoring the evidence in front of you to me.

As for the improvements since 2021 - we aren’t still in 2023 here when Tex and Hinge were playing out of their skins, Thilthorpe was fully fit, Smith and Laird were less cooked than they now are, and we were moving the ball quickly at all costs - all we can focus on is the here and now, and what this side has shown in the first 4 games of 2024 is the following:

1) a completely new, slow, chip-chiparoo game plan that has led to us being the lowest scoring team in the afl thus far, despite not playing any of the 4 prelim finalists from 2023 yet which you’d think would be the toughest tests most of the time on average. In 2023 we were 1st in points scored. Top of the tree. We are now 18th. The most unbelievable part about implementing such a drastic change in game style which has killed our one and only strength is that we have arguably the worst skill level by foot in the entire league, so this particular type of gameplan could not possibly suit any team less than it suits us. Turnovers in dangerous parts of the ground are inevitable when you combine that plan with our playing list, and the scores against from turnovers will tell you all you need to know about how that’s going.

2) We haven’t played either of the 2 form teams of the comp yet (GWS and Sydney, who are absolute locks to go through to prelims) or either of last year’s grand finalists. We have 6 games remaining against those 4 sides. We are no chance of winning any of those 6 games. Zero. We also have 2 games remaining against Port who look a genuine top 4-6 side, who unlike us have clearly improved since last year. The upcoming away game against Carlton (who look poised to play another prelim this year), and the games later in the season against the Pies at the G and Cats at Kardinia Park are going to be truly painful to watch. We can’t beat GWS at Adelaide oval when we’re going well - imagine what they’ll do to us this year when we are going like this and they are rightly premiership favourites. We couldn’t beat the Bombers at Marvel last year - why on earth would we reverse that this year? Etc etc.

3) Tex has maybe a dozen afl games left in him. Smith has 0 and is a panicked mess. Sloane has 0. Laird looks completely done as an AFL quality midfielder, and where else on the ground can you hide a 173cm player who is slow and can’t kick in 2024? Berry looks like never evolving into an AFL quality midfielder. Sholl, McHenry, Murphy, Smith and Jones are an embarrassment to the jumper - two of them were first round picks which could’ve been Butters and Rowbottom. Milera’s career could now be over. Thilthorpe is injury-prone. Hinge is a headless chook whose very strong 2nd half of 2023 was clearly the exception rather than the rule. Rachele looks like he’s about to throw a tantrum and has the intensity of a sloth. The general delivery to the forwards is atrocious. Our leadership group is littered with players who shouldn’t even be in the AFL. You look at the SANFL side and besides Curtin, Taylor and Dowling, the cupboard is pretty bare. None of those 3 have ever played an AFL game, so who knows if they’ll actually make a difference at all. Point of my story - the playing list is absolutely ****ed.

4) We’ve managed to bounce the ball 4 times in 4 games. Yes, our entire team has a total of 4 running bounces of the football in 4 games - you’ll be shocked to learn that is less than any other team, and that there are multiple teams who have exceeded 40. At least one of those bounces was Milera who is now finished. This outlines the completely stagnant, boring, stale gameplan, and the lack of players we have who are willing or mentally able to take the game on.

5) Our coach is now a proven idiot and unlike previous years, there are now clearly players who aren’t playing for him. His assistants have been shown up as the worst group of assistants in the entire league. Seriously, Mick Godden and Van Berlo is the best we can do? Is this club taking the piss out of us? I suppose when 5 of your 8 “leaders” are Lachie Murphy, Wayne Milera, Ben Keays, Mitch Hinge and Brodie Smith, we should already know the answer to that. They would be the leaders of a SANFL side if we hadn’t botched countless drafts with selections based on how nice players’ families are. Losing Rahilly back to Geelong has clearly been a massive loss - would be the equivalent of Port losing Josh Carr and let’s face it, Josh Carr coaches Port while Kenny rubs their knees and tells them he loves them on the bench.

6) the midfield has regressed to literally being the worst in the league. Stats don’t lie. The numbers of EFFECTIVE clearances that lead to scores are historically low - we are again ranked 18th in the league for this. And that’s because we don’t have enough talent. And that’s because we’ve recruited a black hole in there. Hat tip to Hamish who has literally never drafted an afl quality midfielder with a top 20 draft pick in his entire reign of terror as head recruiter. Not one. Jack MacRae would walk in to our best 18 and come close to winning a club champion award. He can’t make the starting midfield of a non-finals team. Port’s 4th best mid is better than our 2nd best mid. GWS have players in their reserves who would be top 10 players for us. Etc

7) Other clubs have completely worked us out. Apply pressure to the ball carrier and the honest triers with little talent wilt and cough it up. Has worked in 4 of 4 games so far. Will the super coaches and super leaders and super midfield overcome this moving forward? I’m betting on no.



The only positives so far this year for me are the ongoing improvement of Soligo, the fact that we FINALLY selected Nankervis in Rd 4 (just imagine the level of stupidity involved in thinking BOTH of Sholl and Jones were better options in the first 3 games), the promising signs from Keane and the fact that maybe us being THIS bad will result in some of the cancers at the club being fired.

We are never returning to finals as long as any of Nicks, Van Berlo, Godden, Ricciuto, Hamish Ogilvie, Brodie Smith, Lachie Murphy, Ned McHenry, Lachie Sholl or Rory Laird have anything to do with the AFL team, so the sooner we clear out this trash, the better. Not to mention the garbage we have at the bottom of our list such as Himmelberg, Bond, Hamill, Parnell and Strachan. And that still doesn’t address the lack of midfield talent on the list outside of Dawson and Soligo. Rachele will never be a mid. Rankine will only ever be a part-time mid. Everyone else is either proven trash, or a flanker.


Feel free to bump this post when we win our 7th game this season though, I’ll cop that if it happens and maybe there’ll be some significant form reversals and fairytale stories that drive it. Murray and Thilthorpe returning should provide something, but neither of them are going to help the midfield chasm of talent. Even in 2020-21, I could see more positives than this, and the rebuild was taking shape. There is nothing taking shape at the moment other than a complete disaster.
Click to expand...
Brilliant post. This should be emailed to the club.
 
huludicidal said:
Well, 3 of our 4 games so far have been against sides who missed the 8 last year, and the other game was a home game against a team who had one of the most horrendous offseasons in living memory after being bundled out the finals in straight sets for the 2nd consecutive year, and we didn’t win any of those, so call me a pessimist but saying that 13 of our remaining games are winnable, and that we’ll win 7-9 of them seems like a case of ignoring the evidence in front of you to me.

As for the improvements since 2021 - we aren’t still in 2023 here when Tex and Hinge were playing out of their skins, Thilthorpe was fully fit, Smith and Laird were less cooked than they now are, and we were moving the ball quickly at all costs - all we can focus on is the here and now, and what this side has shown in the first 4 games of 2024 is the following:

1) a completely new, slow, chip-chiparoo game plan that has led to us being the lowest scoring team in the afl thus far, despite not playing any of the 4 prelim finalists from 2023 yet which you’d think would be the toughest tests most of the time on average. In 2023 we were 1st in points scored. Top of the tree. We are now 18th. The most unbelievable part about implementing such a drastic change in game style which has killed our one and only strength is that we have arguably the worst skill level by foot in the entire league, so this particular type of gameplan could not possibly suit any team less than it suits us. Turnovers in dangerous parts of the ground are inevitable when you combine that plan with our playing list, and the scores against from turnovers will tell you all you need to know about how that’s going.

2) We haven’t played either of the 2 form teams of the comp yet (GWS and Sydney, who are absolute locks to go through to prelims) or either of last year’s grand finalists. We have 6 games remaining against those 4 sides. We are no chance of winning any of those 6 games. Zero. We also have 2 games remaining against Port who look a genuine top 4-6 side, who unlike us have clearly improved since last year. The upcoming away game against Carlton (who look poised to play another prelim this year), and the games later in the season against the Pies at the G and Cats at Kardinia Park are going to be truly painful to watch. We can’t beat GWS at Adelaide oval when we’re going well - imagine what they’ll do to us this year when we are going like this and they are rightly premiership favourites. We couldn’t beat the Bombers at Marvel last year - why on earth would we reverse that this year? Etc etc.

3) Tex has maybe a dozen afl games left in him. Smith has 0 and is a panicked mess. Sloane has 0. Laird looks completely done as an AFL quality midfielder, and where else on the ground can you hide a 173cm player who is slow and can’t kick in 2024? Berry looks like never evolving into an AFL quality midfielder. Sholl, McHenry, Murphy, Smith and Jones are an embarrassment to the jumper - two of them were first round picks which could’ve been Butters and Rowbottom. Milera’s career could now be over. Thilthorpe is injury-prone. Hinge is a headless chook whose very strong 2nd half of 2023 was clearly the exception rather than the rule. Rachele looks like he’s about to throw a tantrum and has the intensity of a sloth. The general delivery to the forwards is atrocious. Our leadership group is littered with players who shouldn’t even be in the AFL. You look at the SANFL side and besides Curtin, Taylor and Dowling, the cupboard is pretty bare. None of those 3 have ever played an AFL game, so who knows if they’ll actually make a difference at all. Point of my story - the playing list is absolutely ****ed.

4) We’ve managed to bounce the ball 4 times in 4 games. Yes, our entire team has a total of 4 running bounces of the football in 4 games - you’ll be shocked to learn that is less than any other team, and that there are multiple teams who have exceeded 40. At least one of those bounces was Milera who is now finished. This outlines the completely stagnant, boring, stale gameplan, and the lack of players we have who are willing or mentally able to take the game on.

5) Our coach is now a proven idiot and unlike previous years, there are now clearly players who aren’t playing for him. His assistants have been shown up as the worst group of assistants in the entire league. Seriously, Mick Godden and Van Berlo is the best we can do? Is this club taking the piss out of us? I suppose when 5 of your 8 “leaders” are Lachie Murphy, Wayne Milera, Ben Keays, Mitch Hinge and Brodie Smith, we should already know the answer to that. They would be the leaders of a SANFL side if we hadn’t botched countless drafts with selections based on how nice players’ families are. Losing Rahilly back to Geelong has clearly been a massive loss - would be the equivalent of Port losing Josh Carr and let’s face it, Josh Carr coaches Port while Kenny rubs their knees and tells them he loves them on the bench.

6) the midfield has regressed to literally being the worst in the league. Stats don’t lie. The numbers of EFFECTIVE clearances that lead to scores are historically low - we are again ranked 18th in the league for this. And that’s because we don’t have enough talent. And that’s because we’ve recruited a black hole in there. Hat tip to Hamish who has literally never drafted an afl quality midfielder with a top 20 draft pick in his entire reign of terror as head recruiter. Not one. Jack MacRae would walk in to our best 18 and come close to winning a club champion award. He can’t make the starting midfield of a non-finals team. Port’s 4th best mid is better than our 2nd best mid. GWS have players in their reserves who would be top 10 players for us. Etc

7) Other clubs have completely worked us out. Apply pressure to the ball carrier and the honest triers with little talent wilt and cough it up. Has worked in 4 of 4 games so far. Will the super coaches and super leaders and super midfield overcome this moving forward? I’m betting on no.



The only positives so far this year for me are the ongoing improvement of Soligo, the fact that we FINALLY selected Nankervis in Rd 4 (just imagine the level of stupidity involved in thinking BOTH of Sholl and Jones were better options in the first 3 games), the promising signs from Keane and the fact that maybe us being THIS bad will result in some of the cancers at the club being fired.

We are never returning to finals as long as any of Nicks, Van Berlo, Godden, Ricciuto, Hamish Ogilvie, Brodie Smith, Lachie Murphy, Ned McHenry, Lachie Sholl or Rory Laird have anything to do with the AFL team, so the sooner we clear out this trash, the better. Not to mention the garbage we have at the bottom of our list such as Himmelberg, Bond, Hamill, Parnell and Strachan. And that still doesn’t address the lack of midfield talent on the list outside of Dawson and Soligo. Rachele will never be a mid. Rankine will only ever be a part-time mid. Everyone else is either proven trash, or a flanker.


Feel free to bump this post when we win our 7th game this season though, I’ll cop that if it happens and maybe there’ll be some significant form reversals and fairytale stories that drive it. Murray and Thilthorpe returning should provide something, but neither of them are going to help the midfield chasm of talent. Even in 2020-21, I could see more positives than this, and the rebuild was taking shape. There is nothing taking shape at the moment other than a complete disaster.
Click to expand...
This belongs in my we are shit thread so I’m going to borrow it
 
George Kramer said:
Surely you’re not expecting a reply now that he realises he’s wrong?
Click to expand...

No. I don’t seek to belittle or hound individuals. You point out one’s errors and then move on. After all, we all make errors of judgement from time to time.

And I bear no malice or hatred towards other posters. In saying that tho, I believe some posters are fools but that is a total different thing.
 
I've only read this a few times in various threads, but it shits me when people say "Rachele/Rankine/Pedlar can't be/don't deserve midfield time, because otherwise they'd be in there and their stats don't look like midfielders right now"

That's the worst argument I've ever heard, if they were played in the middle, they'd get more stats and look like midfielders (and we'd learn if they can be good ones or not!)
 
WaynesWorld19 said:
To suggest Rachele play midfield is folly ....until such time as his performances warrant it, and he can two-way run
Click to expand...
Like this... c'mon mate, it's not by coincidence that playing Rachele in the midfield early 2023 coincided with our best period of the last x years.
 

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