List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[loki04]

Good thing they don't give premierships to the team with the best sub 21yo talent.

No but usually the best sub 21s turn into the best sub 25s and guess where that leads...especially when talking about rejuvenation of an older list.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Houston wants to get back to Victoria because of his girlfriend.

Yes Carlton are his no1 choice, relationship with Voss and JSos.

However, if Carlton can’t get a deal done - he will happily go to the Pies.

 

[JuniorB]

This isn't new news (I'm not saying you're suggesting it is)

This is what has been reported from day one.

But remember, Sam Edmund is a Carlton supporter. He's going to do all in his limited influence in the media to try and push for the Blues to get Houston or to make Collingwood's job harder.

If Houston really wanted to go to Carlton, he'd have publicly nominated Carlton like literally every other player this trade period has nominated where they want to go.

The truth is probably that if given the choice Houston would probably pick Carlton, but he'd be happy to go anywhere that isn't North and whomever remains that provides Port with the best deal.

The fact that Houston was originally going to Melbourne tells you that he'll go where the deal can get done.
Carlton's messaging is that they won't part with their 2024 1st round pick.
Unless they do, they won't get Houston.
If they do change, they'll look like they've caved in - either way they'll look stupid.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that Edmund would float a pro Carlton update to anyone that listened to the Lucas interview on trade radio yesterday. It’s also abundantly clear that he’s their’s if they cave on trading pick 12 and all this talk about 13 will be for nothing if they pivot on that. Listening to Austin though they want the draft. It’s a real test of the power at Princess Park between Austin v Voss.

Don't they need points for TWO Camporeales?

That would also be part of the equation

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Sorry to intrude but Houstons preference would be to continue to play for Port unfortunately we are not based in Melbourne!! and for family reasons he needs to get back to Melbourne so he will be happy to play for either Carlton or Collingwood. Yes he has a relationship with vossy but whichever of the 2 clubs comes up with the best deal for port will get his services. Don't listen to Edmund.

As much as losing Houston will hurt in the short term, reckon you're gonna love Richards

We certainly do and many of us are gutted to lose him

 

[Gaspard]

Interesting discussion around now vs future and "why not both".

I'm a huge believer that 18 (and even 19) year old players are a complete waste of a list spot.
They are there to learn and for the club to work out whether they have a future.

I also don't think that you can't play more than 2 if you happen to luck out and get a few ready to go.

Hence, the idea of 'loading up' with 4-5 picks in a single year might sound great if you hit all of them (which the only team to do that were Hawks & Cats around 2000 when they absolutely nailed their top 20 picks).

But at the end of the day, that's 25% of the list that is 'unplayable'.
Which means the year is tied 100% to your injury list.

Finding early 20's role players, whom you have better read on whether they are capable, removes a lot of the uncertainty.

You only need to find 1-2 players each year to keep the list healthy.
Whether that's natural growth from players drafted 2 years ago, or trades / FA.....

So the idea of having to bottom out and hit the draft is more about mismanagement and inability to identify and bring in talent than anything else.

What we've done since 2021 is all we need to keep doing.

Don't need the sell the farm for more superstars.
Just keep finding ways to bring in 1-2 each year that will play games and we'll be fine.

There is a lot of sense here, but it doesn't put enough emphasis on the crucial role that Sidebottom and Pendlebury have played is stabilizing our team for 15 years. Those are two players of extreme ability who have avoided injury over their careers. They have always been there, operating at the very highest level for all that time, but they won't be for much longer. The Daicos boys offer the same ability pretty much, but it is asking a lot to expect them to be as durable. If they are, then we are OK for another 10 years. If they are not, then we badly need some injection of really elite players from somewhere, whether it is the draft or purchase. We have taken the two outstanding players on our list for granted.

 

[The Majestic]

I keep thinking back to Leppa yesterday.

Would he have been so confident about Houston if we weren't in with a chance to recruit him?

That's what I am wondering as well, he seemed pretty cool about it too.

 

[sr36]

Don't they need points for TWO Camporeales?

That would also be part of the equation

They're expected to be later picks now - won't cost.

 

[Pistol Night]

Everyone needs to calm the **** down and not listen to unhinged journos that are trying to sway clubs trade plans. The clubs don’t listen to these dickheads

 

[gouki88]

No but usually the best sub 21s turn into the best sub 25s and guess where that leads...especially when talking about rejuvenation of an older list.

Slightly offset by having the best 21 y/o in the comp

 

[sr36]

That's what I am wondering as well, he seemed pretty cool about it too.

If we get 13 and 23 from GC - Blues just can't match that without trading their current first. And then we've got Richards value to play with as well.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Cal Twomey is dropping Oasis references in everything he is saying.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

To give you an idea of an actual unbiased media person and a Carlton slanted media person is how this Houston situation is being discussed:

Edmund: "Houston 100% wants to go to Carlton. They just need to give up pick 12. He really really wants to go to Carlton. Come on Carlton, give up pick 12. Hey Scott Lucas

Scott Lucas

Age

46

Ht

192cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

3.1

3star

M

6.0

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

17.2

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.8

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

0.6

3star

G

4.4

5star

, do Collingwood actually rate Noble? I don't think they do"

Twomey: "I'm sure Houston has a preference and that preference probably is Carlton. But in the end he's not going to nominate a team because he wants Port to get the best deal and right now Collingwood is probably the place that can offer that because they both have something each other wants as well as Gold Coast"

It's really a stark difference

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If that's the thinking, I think they've got it wrong. Pace-wise - Cripps, Walsh, Cerra vs Neale, Ashcroft, Dunkley vs what we won with in 2023.

It's the outside and transition where the blues suck because they don't have back half kickers or dashers and their flankers are plodders.

As a Carlton nuff I believe you're both correct in a sense. Our 'midfield' pace is horrendous and means even with a Houston type we're still going to struggle to transition the ball as well as the best teams in the comp due to the lack of players able to get separation through the middle of the ground. Our half backs are pretty decent and most have above average foot skills but they're kicking to players who need to be hit precisely on the tit to take a mark because they cant find space. Hence why we're looking to offload Kennedy, Owies types who practically run backwards they're that slow.

Adding players in our midfield who can provide some run and dash would definitely help break open the game, or we could try to add some more speed through our flanks which is what the Giants have done to surround their fairly slow on ballers. Either of these would help us move the ball quickly just as much as Houston would imo. Where those players are available to us is another predicament entirely. There's really not much on the trade market, but imo there's 3-4 in the draft right at our first pick range in Berry, Travaglia, Hotton and Lindsay - Likely why our list team are so adamant on not trading the pick.

Imo Houston would be a better fit at the Pies next year in terms of impact. After a few more list changes to add some speed and run to our list he might be a perfect targeted selection for the Blues... But it's a line ball call imo.

End of the day I don't think we pull the trigger on Houston unless a lot of other things line up in terms of adding other FR picks and finding new homes for Kennedy, Owies, Carroll etc which allows us to get up near those kids in the draft who fill a need for us.

Gut feel he's Pies bound.

 

[Jen2310]

 

[Pistol Night]

To give you an idea of an actual unbiased media person and a Carlton slanted media person is how this Houston situation is being discussed:

Edmund: "Houston 100% wants to go to Carlton. They just need to give up pick 12. He really really wants to go to Carlton. Come on Carlton, give up pick 12. Hey Scott Lucas, do Collingwood actually rate Noble? I don't think they do"

Twomey: "I'm sure Houston has a preference and that preference probably is Carlton. But in the end he's not going to nominate a team because he wants Port to get the best deal and right now Collingwood is probably the place that can offer that because they both have something each other wants as well as Gold Coast"

It's really a stark difference

Edmunds needs to **** off to the Carlton board on Bigfooty and leave journalism for the professionals

 

[Jen2310]

 

[The Majestic]

If we get 13 and 23 from GC - Blues just can't match that without trading their current first. And then we've got Richards value to play with as well.

This is very true, I am just hoping that a deal with Gold Coast drops soon, and we can get the Houston deal over with. But I am very impatient though lol.

 

[unplugged]

Cal Twomey is dropping Oasis references in everything he is saying.

I reckon once Houston joins the Pies, the Blues will look back in anger.

And once their midfield is slowly walking down the hall, something something something caught beneath the Leppa slide

 

[loki04]

Slightly offset by having the best 21 y/o in the comp

How old were you between 1996 and 1999?



Still the best player I've sent at the pies and have a look what it was like back then with sweet fa talent around him.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

No surprise that the Carlton supporting journos in the media are the biggest wank3rs.

Edmund and Andy Maher leading the charge.

 

[loki04]

If we get 13 and 23 from GC - Blues just can't match that without trading their current first. And then we've got Richards value to play with as well.

Carlton would be dumb not to match him with where they are at and have been as a club.

 

[Tadpole]

 

[gouki88]

How old were you between 1996 and 1999?

View attachment 2134985View attachment 2134986View attachment 2134987

Still the best player I've sent at the pies and have a look what it was like back then with sweet fa talent around him.

Look at those lists and compare them, come on

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

I reckon once Houston joins the Pies, the Blues will look back in anger.

And once their midfield is slowly walking down the hall, something something something caught beneath the Leppa slide

I've picked up on Masterplan, D'You Know What I Mean, Little by Little, Some Might Say and Talk Tonight so far.