List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[loki04]

It just makes too much sense with Luko to Port Noble to Suns, Richards to Port, all the pieces are there.

Surely Lukosius is the most costly of that trio.

Is pick 13 going to a circlular currency? The 3 Stooges?




Pies > GC - Noble + F1
GC > Pies - 13, 20, 26
Pies > Port - 13, 20, Richards
Port > Pies - Houston, F3
GC > Port - Lukosius
Port > GC - Pick 13.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Even these two tweets

Look at the framing

Riley Beveridge is also a Carlton man is he not? It seeps from their skin.

 

[lones37]

As a Carlton nuff I believe you're both correct in a sense. Our 'midfield' pace is horrendous and means even with a Houston type we're still going to struggle to transition the ball as well as the best teams in the comp due to the lack of players able to get separation through the middle of the ground. Our half backs are pretty decent and most have above average foot skills but they're kicking to players who need to be hit precisely on the tit to take a mark because they cant find space. Hence why we're looking to offload Kennedy, Owies types who practically run backwards they're that slow.

Adding players in our midfield who can provide some run and dash would definitely help break open the game, or we could try to add some more speed through our flanks which is what the Giants have done to surround their fairly slow on ballers. Either of these would help us move the ball quickly just as much as Houston would imo. Where those players are available to us is another predicament entirely. There's really not much on the trade market, but imo there's 3-4 in the draft right at our first pick range in Berry, Travaglia, Hotton and Lindsay - Likely why our list team are so adamant on not trading the pick.

Imo Houston would be a better fit at the Pies next year in terms of impact. After a few more list changes to add some speed and run to our list he might be a perfect targeted selection for the Blues... But it's a line ball call imo.

End of the day I don't think we pull the trigger on Houston unless a lot of other things line up in terms of adding other FR picks and finding new homes for Kennedy, Owies, Carroll etc which allows us to get up near those kids in the draft who fill a need for us.

Gut feel he's Pies bound.

Very sensible post, and as you have described, with the game now turning to transition and speed, Carlton needs to find some to improve, with Kennedy being much the same mould as the other midfielders. Would Houston improve Carlton? Absolutely. Way more damaging with his elite disposal than Newman, imo. So you can see why Carlton want to keep the pick to use on elite young talent.

For us, he would replace Noble, and be a superior upgrade by a fair margin. Noble has speed and run but lacks polish and can turn the ball over, Houston is not as quick but will punish with his disposal. Given where it all sits it is hard not to see him end up at Collingwood, given Richards wants to go there and GC want Noble.

 

[loki04]

Was it lack of talent or that Shaw was a god awful coach?
Pretty telling to me that we were playing in a grand final only 2 years after Malthouse took over.

After 5 years of acquiring talent and then MM hit up trades to smooth it out, and even then it was not an elite list.

 

[Copeland]

We just need to get the pick 13 deal done

Happy to use it on Houston but also would be more than happy to use it in draft

How do we get 13, Nobel and what?

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Assuming we get Pick 13 - Can’t help but think Richards is the key to the Houston trade that gazumps Carlton. All they have is Owies as a counter but I doubt PA bite.

Yep.

GC want Noble, we want their pick.
Port want Lukosius
Port want Richards
Pies want Houston

All 3 clubs are linked via players all wanting to move between the clubs. Picks will have to be moved and shuffled.

This will likely be a 3 team trade and take a week to put together.

 

[loki04]

Could ask the same for Bucks and Fly

1 Sheed kick off a premiership would be his counter and fly took over his team that is credited with building the defensive structures allowing Fly to release the handbrakes.

Bucks just got too focussed on the defensive side of the game at his own and teams detriment imo.

 

[Apex36]

Could ask the same for Bucks and Fly

Not really given that Bucks at least made a GF, so it was obvious the list was decent. You’re right that he definitely didn’t get the most out of the players at his disposal though.

 

[sr36]

Carlton would be dumb not to match him with where they are at and have been as a club.

They're either suffering from FOMO or have become too scared to make a move due to their latest moves not having worked out.

 

[Apex36]

1 Sheed kick off a premiership would be his counter and fly took over his team that is credited with building the defensive structures allowing Fly to release the handbrakes.

Bucks just got too focussed on the defensive side of the game at his own and teams detriment imo.

They should just look at my trade proposal from a few day ago and go get it done

 

[loki04]

Not really given that Bucks at least made a GF, so it was obvious the list was decent. You’re right that he definitely didn’t get the most out of the players at his disposal though.

I don't think that is true of every player. Ie Howe, Crisp etc

But I would agree as a team the uber defensive plan sucked the life out of everyone team included. It did lay the foundations for the Fly Reno though so...

 

[BuildEmUp]

Pretty comfy that Smit, Jiath & Parker will play 5+ years for us (from what i saw this year)
If those three force their way in, that's a good chunk of the team in this age bracket in the next 2 years.

Not forgetting Harry DM ...

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Was it lack of talent or that Shaw was a god awful coach?
Pretty telling to me that we were playing in a grand final only 2 years after Malthouse took over.

A combo of both?

Maybe go back and have a look at the list during that period.

Malthouse's strengths were getting the most out of almost any player and having his players genuinely play for him.

Doesn't change that the list was basically utter shit from 95-2003. Like seriously go and look at the team that took the field in 2002. It's almost laughable that team was there on Grand Final day.

But then again, in a season where you can make 4th with 13 wins and the bottom half of the 8 all had percentage below 100 it shouldn't be completely surprising. The standard of the comp was horrible back then lol

I think it more speaks to how good the Top 6 or so players were back then more than anything. Because after Buckley, Rocca, Clement, Burns, Nick Davis and Licuria, it dropped off a cliff pretty fast. I know there was Wakeline and Presti and stuff but still.

The next crop were there, but they were all 21 or under and not quite ready yet.

Didak
Leon Davis
Josh Fraser
Ryan Lonie
Tarrant
Johnson
Jason Cloke
Swan

 

[BuildEmUp]

I'm slowly coming around to the idea of Houston. I was totally against it as I thought we would be selling to much to bring in an A grade player now, but in 3-4 years time bottoming out.
However, with McGuane coming in next year, we are still bringing in first rounders to our club. If we don't trade out 2026 F1st next year, then in 2026 we will still have a 1st round draft pick in 2026.

So really, the list managers are not neglecting the young kids..... Its just that we had a patch were no kids really took there chances. Therefore, there is a hole in our list which is being plugged up by older players till the next batch come through.

So, I'm now all in for Houston. However, I would like the pies to at least have a second round pick this year. Would definitely help to bridge the gap in a deep draft.

Houston IMHO is the perfect replaemnet for Murphy and will free up Darcy returning our backline to what it was in 2023

 

[TheGreatSwan]

Surely Lukosius is the most costly of that trio.

Is pick 13 going to a circlular currency? The 3 Stooges?




Pies > GC - Noble + F1
GC > Pies - 13, 20, 26
Pies > Port - 13, 20, Richards
Port > Pies - Houston, F3
GC > Port - Lukosius
Port > GC - Pick 13.

You left out Carlton.

Pies > GC - Noble + F1
GC > Pies - 13, 20, 26
Pies > Port - 13, 20, Richards
Port > Pies - Houston, F3
GC > Port - Lukosius
Port > GC - Pick 13.
Blues > Blues - Mitch McGovern

 

[Unknown Identity]

Won't even be mad if we miss Houston.
Just get those Suns picks.

Do something we never do, target KPP's..draft both Whitlock's.

Bookends complete.

 

[loki04]

A combo of both?

Maybe go back and have a look at the list during that period.

Malthouse's strengths were getting the most out of almost any player and having his players genuinely play for him.

Doesn't change that the list was basically utter shit from 95-2003. Like seriously go and look at the team that took the field in 2002. It's almost laughable that team was there on Grand Final day.

But then again, in a season where you can make 4th with 13 wins and the bottom half of the 8 all had percentage below 100 it shouldn't be completely surprising. The standard of the comp was horrible back then lol

I think it more speaks to how good the Top 6 or so players were back then more than anything. Because after Buckley, Rocca, Clement, Burns, Nick Davis and Licuria, it dropped off a cliff pretty fast. I know there was Wakeline and Presti and stuff but still.

The next crop were there, but they were all 21 or under and not quite ready yet.

Didak
Leon Davis
Josh Fraser
Ryan Lonie
Tarrant
Johnson
Jason Cloke
Swan

Hopefully our list doesn't read like that in 2029.

 

[3rdMan]

Sub 23 could be used if you prefer.

18 to 22 yo group coming up with Nick peaking together is my concern.

Not just Nick Daicos and bupkis.

You need more then one star player on a team.

It's two different methods of replenishing a list. Neither is right or wrong. Due to circumstances Nick came a long when we already had a strong squad, so rather than going all in on the draft we were also looking to win immediately, which we did.

Following that we had the option of hitting the draft, as best we could seeing as we wouldn't have great picks, or bringing in established players. So far we've done both, using a first round pick last year on HDM and trading for Schultz, this year bringing in Perryman and maybe Houston. The additions through trade and FA though are medium term not short (Schultz 24-25, Perryman 26-27, Houston 27) and will play with Nick for 5+ years. They're great options to prevent the immediate cliff from retirements and allow us to develop younger players for the longer term.

The above is all assuming we get Houston. If we don't we very well may hit the draft this year, then with McGuane coming next year we've taken a first round pick in each draft since the flag (assuming he is a first rounder). If we do get Houston we've taken a first round pick in 2/3 drafts since the flag, so the idea we've completely ignored the draft is also not true.

 

[thommo_legend]

Leppa wouldn't say he's confident of getting Houston if he wasn't interested in coming to us, obviously he may prefer Carlton but we have a deal that can get done.

 

[Gabbo64]

What we don't want is no Houston and no Richards, To me this has to be avoided at all cost. IMO if we don't get Houston, we play hard ball on Richards.

 

[Maggie5]

After 5 years of acquiring talent and then MM hit up trades to smooth it out, and even then it was not an elite list.

Still never missed going to the footy in those sad days.

 

[magpies2013]

If Houston wants to play for the filth then we should just pull the pin and go to the draft.

 

[jimmy35]

Leppa wouldn't say he's confident of getting Houston if he wasn't interested in coming to us, obviously he may prefer Carlton but we have a deal that can get done.

I took that from it as well.

 

[satanshoof101]

I do think both Perryman and Houston are immediate best 22 for the next 5 years which is great, something we really need. But there is a lets not pretend we aren't sacrificing our future to stay in the window by getting Houston but also something that is a major part of the conversation is that we also did it with Schultz.

Schultz for pick 11 + 34 the latter was then traded to West Coast for Clay Hall but also pick 32 in this years draft

Noble + F1 and maybe also pick 36 (so gc can match) for picks 13 + 23

Houston for pick 13, 23 + Richards

We could by the end of this trad period + last year draft picks 11, F1 (2025), 13, 23, 34 (2023), 36 + Noble + Richards for two players in Houston and Schultz

Twomey has Tobie Travaglia and Bo Allan at pick 11/12 in his phantom form guide and pick 13 we could use on any one of Luke Trainor, Jobe Shanahan, Jack Whitlock. + pick 23, 32.

Otherwise we are taking at best, picks 36, 51, 54 in this draft.

 

[RobJD]

No but usually the best sub 21s turn into the best sub 25s and guess where that leads...especially when talking about rejuvenation of an older list.

If we make the trade with GCS, using pick 13 in the draft is highly unlikely to result in a significant shift to us having the best sub 21 team. Using that pick to get Houston adds a weapon to a list that was unbeaten this year in games against the: Lions, Power, Cartlol and ran the Swans to a kick.

It's too hard to build a squad that is in contention, let's not be overly distracted by strategic list objectives (I suspect that's the logic behind Fly's players not picks philosophy) - the time to focus on strategic list management is when we're no longer in contention, for now, let's utilize the legends on the list (Pendles, Steel) to most effectively pass on the baton to our younger players whilst doing our best to achieve Flag #17 - how nice would it be for Houston to kick the goal that seals the 2025 flag and puts us in the outright lead in the Premiership Race and all because the Baggers were focussing on the hole, and not the doughnut.