List Mgmt. “It’s a form of tanking” the Richmond rebuild

[Grrr]

The media are vultures - whichever team loses in any week they are all over them with whatever they want to say and whatever agenda they are pushing - they mostly just fabricate stories to sell clicks. Best not to listen to them and certainly dont believe them. AFL media is unique because most the journos have strong ties to certain clubs or hatred of other clubs or individuals and unfort they wield a lot of power

Case in point, those serious journo's were advocating Richmond adding Lynch to player exodus this drafting period, and then saying Richmond should not use all their draft picks this year and hold some into next year. What logic is that.

 

[SSSSSS]

Case in point, those serious journo's were advocating Richmond adding Lynch to player exodus this drafting period, and then saying Richmond should not use all their draft picks this year and hold some into next year. What logic is that.

I don't think trading out some of your picks for futures next year is a bad idea.

Could be a bit of a problem (a nice problem) if all your picks ended up guns all needing bumper contracts all at once. Spreading it out and getting good value back is a reasonable idea.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Case in point, those serious journo's were advocating Richmond adding Lynch to player exodus this drafting period, and then saying Richmond should not use all their draft picks this year and hold some into next year. What logic is that.

Richmond would be better to spread them out across multiple drafts, to be fair.

 

[Grrr]

I don't think trading out some of your picks for futures next year is a bad idea.

Could be a bit of a problem (a nice problem) if all your picks ended up guns all needing bumper contracts all at once. Spreading it out and getting good value back is a reasonable idea.

So you agree that trading out your most important player and then not using that pick but banking it is good logic.

The idea when you start a footy season is you have your best players on the park, not on some kid who might get on the park in 2026. To make it worse, they all summised that pick 25 for Lynch would be about right. Trade your best player in 2025 for pick 25 who might play in '26. Good job they were star players.

 

[peetoo]

Bringing lots of talented players through your system together seems to be a multiplier of individual input.

They already know their long term chances are about 45%

 

[Grrr]

Richmond would be better to spread them out across multiple drafts, to be fair.

Why. I can see reserving one perhaps, or bundling a couple to get a better pick on draft night, but this is the best draft in years and we need quality picks now. We are odds on to get the no.1 pick again next year.

If you get to pick 6 or 7 and you see a player that you really rate (pick 20-23) and they fit your needs, go for it, if not by all means bow out until next year. The same pick or close enough may not be as good next year, given this is a 'super draft'.

 

[SSSSSS]

So you agree that trading out your most important player and then not using that pick but banking it is good logic.

The idea when you start a footy season is you have your best players on the park, not on some kid who might get on the park in 2026. To make it worse, they all summised that pick 25 for Lynch would be about right. Trade your best player in 2025 for pick 25 who might play in '26. Good job they were star players.

I think both approaches are fine and have merit.

Having some extra future picks gives you a bit of flexibility going into next year. There are some interesting names out of contract next year (Callaghan, Lohmann, Hill, SDK, Rowell, Aleer, Owens, NWM, Warner, Darcy) and having verifiable currency now allows you to approach their management with more confidence that you can get a deal done.

Using extra picks this year that you have acquired allows you to get an extra year of development into the players.

Pros and Cons. I wouldn't begrudge Richmond trading some picks away for futures, and I wouldn't begrudge them for not.

 

[Grrr]

I think both approaches are fine and have merit.

Having some extra future picks gives you a bit of flexibility going into next year. There are some interesting names out of contract next year (Callaghan, Lohmann, Hill, SDK, Rowell, Aleer, Owens, NWM, Warner, Darcy) and having verifiable currency now allows you to approach their management with more confidence that you can get a deal done.

Using extra picks this year that you have acquired allows you to get an extra year of development into the players.

Pros and Cons. I wouldn't begrudge Richmond trading some picks away for futures, and I wouldn't begrudge them for not.

Some good points especially if chasing a big name, there's always on or two.

 

[Partridge]

Of course some are on the decline due to age, but can still good players if on the park together. Any yes a lot is dependant on injuries, but surely we are due a bit of luck. At the same time others are on the rise and played good football last year.

From what I can see, part of Richmond's woes go back to issues affecting critical players at the tail end of the premiership era which then has transitioned into now. For starters, you lost both key defenders within a couple of years of each other to injury (Rance) or ongoing problems (Astbury). Both should have had more years in them, and that means you don't have either there to shepherd the next key defender along. To compound that, the most promising young key defender you have got in Gibcus has now missed pretty much two full seasons. Then in the midfield, arguably your most consistent midfielder in Prestia starts getting injured straight after his best season in 2019. Throw in Lynch missing the last two seasons effectively and it's a huge gap that no amount of magic can fix. I guess the final straw was the injuries that hit in 2024 much like it devastated West Coast in 2023. Anyone thinking Yze or anyone else is going to walk in and wave a magic wand within 1-2 years is in fantasy land.

Like all teams in that crappy position, the positive is how many games you can pump into the more promising young guys. I'm extremely wary of knowing with absolutely certainty who will and won't make it. A massive chunk of your list are still at 50 games or under. A lot can change.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

You cant give people chocolate for dinner for 12 straight weeks then complain when they put on weight

You get what you give and this is what AFL has given. A system that relies on uncompetitiveness to become competitive again.

Richmond just doing what the system tells them too. If you dont like it change the system. That simple

 

[Grrr]

From what I can see, part of Richmond's woes go back to issues affecting critical players at the tail end of the premiership era which then has transitioned into now. For starters, you lost both key defenders within a couple of years of each other to injury (Rance) or ongoing problems (Astbury). Both should have had more years in them, and that means you don't have either there to shepherd the next key defender along. To compound that, the most promising young key defender you have got in Gibcus has now missed pretty much two full seasons. Then in the midfield, arguably your most consistent midfielder in Prestia starts getting injured straight after his best season in 2019. Throw in Lynch missing the last two seasons effectively and it's a huge gap that no amount of magic can fix. I guess the final straw was the injuries that hit in 2024 much like it devastated West Coast in 2023. Anyone thinking Yze or anyone else is going to walk in and wave a magic wand within 1-2 years is in fantasy land.

Like all teams in that crappy position, the positive is how many games you can pump into the more promising young guys. I'm extremely wary of knowing with absolutely certainty who will and won't make it. A massive chunk of your list are still at 50 games or under. A lot can change.

Succinct. I get a bit wordy.

 

[twhowler]

Genuine question for those who watch them closely - Richmond had 5 picks in the top 30 in 2021 draft. Are any of them looking like good picks? I know there have been injuries for Gibcus. On the face of it seems like a bust of a draft but they are all relatively young but 3 seasons in you usually have an idea.

 

[peetoo]

You cant give people chocolate for dinner for 12 straight weeks then complain when they put on weight

You get what you give and this is what AFL has given. A system that relies on uncompetitiveness to become competitive again.

Richmond just doing what the system tells them too. If you dont like it change the system. That simple

Yes that gets me how people call AFLW ‘lop sided’ when apparently tanking in cycles is ‘accepted wisdom’ in the men’s game and has been for 20 years, and that probably was because the 2001 draft was so rich

 

[Grrr]

Genuine question for those who watch them closely - Richmond had 5 picks in the top 30 in 2021 draft. Are any of them looking like good picks? I know there have been injuries for Gibcus. On the face of it seems like a bust of a draft but they are all relatively young but 3 seasons in you usually have an idea.

Not a bust at all. Gibcus played 17 games in his first year and was very good, iinjury. Brown (17) has had his fair share of injuries but finally got going this year and played 18 games in effectively his first season (debuted r.23 the previous year). He is an exceptional kick and looks good going forward. Sonsie (28) started off brilliantly and was near our best in the final v Brisbane, but has struggled since. 50-50 at best. Banks (29) has slowly progressed and played 15 games this year. Clarke (30) has shown some real class and zip but did an ACL early in the season.

Injury and being a bit skinny has held them all back but they are getting there. Not hard to get games at Richmond last year, but the ones that did were pretty good.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Genuine question for those who watch them closely - Richmond had 5 picks in the top 30 in 2021 draft. Are any of them looking like good picks? I know there have been injuries for Gibcus. On the face of it seems like a bust of a draft but they are all relatively young but 3 seasons in you usually have an idea.

Lot of talent in those picks. Only one guy who screams A grade - Gibcus. If Gibcus stays fit then he is likely to be a top end AFL KP. (If )
Brown has been a slow burn, but looked really good last year. I mean damn kicks like a laser, good defensive and mark. Not a complete player but a lot to like.
Banks, similar to Bown, but a bit less. However, a couple of games last year were extremely good, great kick too.
Clarke has looked like a great small forward/runner when he's been fit. Hard to judge on snippets of very exciting action, like a lot of young kids.
Sonsie, looks like he is the real deal as an A grade distrusting mid. Then just sucks. Confuses me. I was red hot on him, but am getting worried that he is well above VFL level but not might make the AFL. Sonsie is the one (apart from Gibcus) who looks like he could be rolled gold. But a lot of queries about him when the whips come on.

So all the 2021 picks nailed talent, especially kicking. Given fitness/injury I'd say Gibcus A grade, Brown B+, Banks B(+), Clarke B (maybe), and Sonsie F-A. With luck we'll get 5 good to very good players (Amazing draft). With bad luck we'll get one or two good players (OK to Meh draft).

Long answer that doesn't really say I have any solid idea - but not a bust.

 

[BF Tiger]

Bringing lots of talented players through your system together seems to be a multiplier of individual input.

They already know their long term chances are about 45%

I absolutely agree with this. One factor of success is time together.

 

[BF Tiger]

Yes, five picks in the top 30 in 2021 draft. But three of them were 28, 29 and 30. These are solid second round picks, and historically may or may not have significant AFL careers. Our three are definitely in the TBC category. Time will tell.

 

[Partridge]

I absolutely agree with this. One factor of success is time together.

Definitely. An underrated, and massive component of our 2007-2011 team's development. Look at who we drafted just in 1999 and 2001 - Corey, Enright, Chapman, Ling, Bartel, Kelly, Steve Johnson, and Ablett. There's a core right there, that had all had 5-6 years together by the time 2007 rolled around. Has to play a part.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Gonna be so fun watching them get absolutely pantsed every single week.

I'm calling it first- winless season incoming.

Third best draft hand of all time, well done Richmond. Have the luxury with so many picks to take a good mix of player types. Just need to nail the picks now.

Two wins, then next year win less. When can Richmond start asking for Priority Picks?

 

[sydney_gws]

You cant give people chocolate for dinner for 12 straight weeks then complain when they put on weight

You get what you give and this is what AFL has given. A system that relies on uncompetitiveness to become competitive again.

Richmond just doing what the system tells them too. If you dont like it change the system. That simple

Their picks don't look quite as good after fathersons, academy's. I feel sorry for west coast, it should have had better picks but I guess they didn't have anybody to trade to generate picks other than Oscar Allen.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Can see a Simpson slipping into the Tigers job in a year or two.

Yze is in a tough period to be coach. Very tough.

Morro will be coach, Yze caretaker

 

[Obeanie1]

Morro will be coach, Yze caretaker

He's retired surely?

 

[Ghost of Punt Road]

Richmond have been forced into this by terrible drafting and development followed by the awful decision to double down at the wrong time with Taranto and Hopper.

It's the right decision once they were here. Keeping disgruntled players when you're no chance of competing would've been worse. But unless the current list of younger players massively outperforms their current trajectories they're in for a world of hurt for a long time.

The current list going into next season will have 1 proven B-grade or better player under 27 in Noah Balta. That's it.

Everyone's drooling over the draft picks. Imagine they hit this draft like it's the 2001 superdraft. Would be incredibly right?

Well with the current picks in 2001 they would've got Luke Hodge and Steve Johnson. Amazing! But they also would've got:

Ashley Sampi
Sam Power
Richard Cole
Shane Harvey
Daniel Elstone
Charlie Gardiner

And that's from the greatest draft of all time.

If they pick the eyes out of the draft it will eventually pay off. But they're starting from a long, long way back having hit almost nothing over the past 6 drafts.

You make good points.

I'd disagree about doing nothing much for 6 drafts. I count at least 13 decent players drafted in that period (kids).

 

[eastfreo75]

5-7 years

Winning a final 8-10 which is around prime age for these current draftees

Won’t take that long unless you lose patience.

It’s about timing when to top up and with who.

I would be saving as much salary to go after Reid in 3 to 4 years.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

It’s probably just me, but it’s quite amazing watching media types spur on Richmond to trade out as many senior players as possible to grab a bunch of kids after finishing last in 2024 with just 2 wins, considering that when Hawthorn traded out just the 2 senior players tanking allegations were leveled at the club for a good 8 months after trade week.

Richmond are quite likely looking at being as uncompetitive a team as we’ve seen in the last 15 years with the amount of experience headed out the door, and will be clear favourites for the 2025 wooden spoon.

After how many 15 goal beltings will the media flip on Richmond, compare their formline to Fitzroy’s last few years of heavy defeats and start using the “it’s a form of tanking” lines?

The AFL will find a way to take the first pick off the Tigers again, just like 2007, don't worry Lad.

The only club the AFL have done that to, outside expansion contexts.

Just like we 'had' to give up Tony Lockett to the Swans etc. etc.