AFL Player # 2: Sam Draper - The mullet hath returneth - 22/6

[Dave]

Contract Status: Out of contract 2025
My Boy Draft 2024: Pick 20, TheUnicorn

 

[RedmanWasHere]

he is still so raw in terms of playing

But this is his 6th year on Essendon's list.

How can you still be considered raw after 6 seasons?

 

[Schnitzengruben]

For comparison, this is also Tim English's 6th year on a list and he's just now showing signs of entering his prime. But he's also played 71 games vs Draper's 20~.

It does feel like Draper has played a lot but in reality, he hasn't. He'll look like a completely different player at 50 and 100 games.

 

[TheGrizz]

But this is his 6th year on Essendon's list.

How can you still be considered raw after 6 seasons?

Because he started footy late (like 16 or 17 I believe) and has lost two years to significant leg injuries (ACL that robbed him of 15 months and a 10 week hamstring last year) in his first 5 years.

Not to mention ruckman generally take that long to develop anyway, and that's with playing tonnes of junior footy with no significant injuries.

Counter question - How long did Max Gawn take before he was even Melbourne's first choice ruck?

 

[eth-dog]

Because he started footy late (like 16 or 17 I believe) and has lost two years to significant leg injuries (ACL that robbed him of 15 months and a 10 week hamstring last year) in his first 5 years.

Not to mention ruckman generally take that long to develop anyway, and that's with playing tonnes of junior footy with no significant injuries.

Counter question - How long did Max Gawn take before he was even Melbourne's first choice ruck?

2015 after getting drafted in 2009

 

[TheGrizz]

2015 after getting drafted in 2009

Exactly. The best ruckmen in the league currently took 6.5 years to establish himself as a regular senior player in a team that was cycling through ruckmen like pairs of socks.

Draper has plenty of time, only the terminal impatient genuinely think he is a bust at this point

 

[ant555]

But this is his 6th year on Essendon's list.

How can you still be considered raw after 6 seasons?

Well he did not play for one of them and when we drafted him he had only played one season of footy ever. He was a rookie pick.
Max Gawn only really got going as the number one in his 7th season of playing and he came through the under 18 system and had played 39 games before that season.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

All the people ending Draper's career - please note the following:

1. He has played 23 games TOTAL and has had 2 serious leg injuries in the first part of his career. The reason he looks lost out there at times is because he is still so raw in terms of playing within elite football structures and systems

2. Teams are now planning for him. He made some teams look silly last year and so now teams and oppo ruckmen are planning around how to mitigate his effect

3. Now he is young, and the above can be rectified and worked through with appropriate support and development

Now I agree that he had some soft efforts yesterday, and his first two weeks have been underwhelming.
But calling him a bust and saying an even LESS experience Bryan is the answer after one bad fortnight is the definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

R.E.L.A.X

Draper has been poor first two weeks but I agree with this.

However, it feels like he is near undroppable when fit when I don't think he should be.

For the situation right now with Jones out, I'd like them to keep Wright at full forward and bring in either Bryan or Phillips to tandem with Draper as ruck/forward or ruck/roaming or ruck/resting. Wright is showing good things forward and I'd like to see what we have in Bryan too. I don't think Draper is ready to carry the midfield and wing get out kick duties (especially with Langford and Jones, now Cox out too). If Bryan doesn't work then tandem with Phillips to take the load more expected of an experienced head. Give the kid some on field support and see how he goes with that.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

I thought he was better this week, but needs to compete for and take more marks.

 

[YoboD]

All the people ending Draper's career - please note the following:

1. He has played 23 games TOTAL and has had 2 serious leg injuries in the first part of his career. The reason he looks lost out there at times is because he is still so raw in terms of playing within elite football structures and systems

2. Teams are now planning for him. He made some teams look silly last year and so now teams and oppo ruckmen are planning around how to mitigate his effect

3. Now he is young, and the above can be rectified and worked through with appropriate support and development

Now I agree that he had some soft efforts yesterday, and his first two weeks have been underwhelming.
But calling him a bust and saying an even LESS experience Bryan is the answer after one bad fortnight is the definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

R.E.L.A.X

I think he pretty clearly won his position yesterday too despite all this, even with the goal Big O kicked.

 

[Big Slam]

Comparing Draper to Gawn is apples to oranges.

Gawn took longer to develop because he didn’t take his footy seriously. The work ethic wasn’t there and we was on the darts and heavy drinking until his come to Jesus moment. He had the ability, he just didn’t have the aerobic capacity or commitment.

Draper is a physical and aerobic marvel. That’s not what’s holding him back. Football ability, feel of the game and craft is what’s holding him back.

He doesn’t know how to jump into a ruck contest, how to ball tap to the advantage of his mids, how to kick or how to read the ball in the air to mark.

Unless you truly believe those innate abilities will somehow magically manifest in him, he might be as good right now as he will ever be.

And that’s not good enough to get our mids first purchase.

 

[Zach Package]

We’ve essentially drafted a raw slab of granite and people are complaining that he’s not the finished article yet?

The craft will get better, for now just enjoy the fact he’s brutalised 2 far more experienced performers so far this year and will probably continue to do so.

 

[TheGrizz]

Comparing Draper to Gawn is apples to oranges.

Gawn took longer to develop because he didn’t take his footy seriously. The work ethic wasn’t there and we was on the darts and heavy drinking until his come to Jesus moment. He had the ability, he just didn’t have the aerobic capacity or commitment.

Draper is a physical and aerobic marvel. That’s not what’s holding him back. Football ability, feel of the game and craft is what’s holding him back.

He doesn’t know how to jump into a ruck contest, how to ball tap to the advantage of his mids, how to kick or how to read the ball in the air to mark.

Unless you truly believe those innate abilities will somehow magically manifest in him, he might be as good right now as he will ever be.

And that’s not good enough to get our mids first purchase.

That is just innacurate. He is 4th in the league for hitouts the first two rounds and led the hitouts to advantage yesterday over McInerney. That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't know how to approach a ruck contest.

I also didn't see you post the above when he towelled up Hawthorn twice last year and in the win over the Bulldogs.

He cannot do those things consistently, against seasoned, quality ruckmen. But again, he is 23 games in, he will get there.

And in regards to your Gawn comparison - football skills and technique is a hell of a lot easier to teach then athleticism and work ethic, just ask any coach at any level of football. The comment was to show how long it takes ruckmen to fully develop their craft - Draper is only 23 and has plenty of upside left in him.

 

[Big Slam]

That is just innacurate. He is 4th in the league for hitouts the first two rounds and led the hitouts to advantage yesterday over McInerney. That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't know how to approach a ruck contest.

I also didn't see you post the above when he towelled up Hawthorn twice last year and in the win over the Bulldogs.

He cannot do those things consistently, against seasoned, quality ruckmen. But again, he is 23 games in, he will get there.

And in regards to your Gawn comparison - football skills and technique is a hell of a lot easier to teach then athleticism and work ethic, just ask any coach at any level of football. The comment was to show how long it takes ruckmen to fully develop their craft - Draper is only 23 and has plenty of upside left in him.

Any suggestion of him being less likely to be at or close to his ceiling today and more likely to add all of the significant pieces and elements that are missing from his game in order to reach the potential you see him to have is being deliberately ignorant.

He’s up against it. Maybe if he’d played footy and not soccer though his early development and teen years there’d be more of a chance - but he didn’t. And now you can also add questionable durability on top of that as well based on his recent injury history.

And you think it’s easier to turn an athlete into a football player than it is a football player into an athlete?

Jobe Watson says “hold my beer”, while Brayden Ham says “a sphincter says what?”

 

[TheGrizz]

Any suggestion of him being less likely to be at or close to his ceiling today and more likely to add all of the significant pieces and elements that are missing from his game in order to reach the potential you see him to have is being deliberately ignorant.

He’s up against it. Maybe if he’d played footy and not soccer though his early development and teen years there’d be more of a chance - but he didn’t. And now you can also add questionable durability on top of that as well based on his recent injury history.

And you think it’s easier to turn an athlete into a football player than it is a football player into an athlete?

Jobe Watson says “hold my beer”, while Brayden Ham says “a sphincter says what?”

And what did I say his potential to be, exactly?

A quality starting ruck that could be in the top 10 or so in the league at his position at his best? Sure.
Anything else is gravy.

I used Gawn as an example of how you cant write a 23yo ruckman off as hitting his ceiling - that's it. I have made no suggestion that he is Gawns quality or going to get to that level, you have just assumed that.

Looks at Shane Mumford or Sam Jacobs as other late bloomers if that has confused you. The point is writing him off as a bust at this point, two games into 2022 when various respected pundits had him as one of our brightest stars coming into this year, is baby and bathwater stuff.

 

[Zach Package]

Any suggestion of him being less likely to be at or close to his ceiling today and more likely to add all of the significant pieces and elements that are missing from his game in order to reach the potential you see him to have is being deliberately ignorant.

He’s up against it. Maybe if he’d played footy and not soccer though his early development and teen years there’d be more of a chance - but he didn’t. And now you can also add questionable durability on top of that as well based on his recent injury history.

And you think it’s easier to turn an athlete into a football player than it is a football player into an athlete?

Jobe Watson says “hold my beer”, while Brayden Ham says “a sphincter says what?”

So the fact that he’s basically the youngest first choice ruckman in the AFL and the only one more advanced at his age is Darcy despite the fact that Darcy has let’s say conservatively 4 years of serious development more than Draper is a bad thing?

Did you know ‘young and promising’ Oscar McInerny who’s just establishing himself as the number 1 at his club is 27?

 

[Yoda_]

Because he started footy late (like 16 or 17 I believe) and has lost two years to significant leg injuries (ACL that robbed him of 15 months and a 10 week hamstring last year) in his first 5 years.

Not to mention ruckman generally take that long to develop anyway, and that's with playing tonnes of junior footy with no significant injuries.

Counter question - How long did Max Gawn take before he was even Melbourne's first choice ruck?

I see Draper getting to a Jarrod Witts level.

Will be a very good ruckman for 10 years but not quite in the conversation to be one of the best rucks in the league at any one time.

I hope I'm wrong, just feel something is holding Sammy back from being at a Gawn / Grundy level.

 

[faible]

So the fact that he’s basically the youngest first choice ruckman in the AFL and the only one more advanced at his age is Darcy despite the fact that Darcy has let’s say conservatively 4 years of serious development more than Draper is a bad thing?

Did you know ‘young and promising’ Oscar McInerny who’s just establishing himself as the number 1 at his club is 27?

People seem to have no idea how old most ruckmen are when they take over as the genuine clear number one each week, and how old most of the ruckmen are.

Gawn is 30, Grundy is 27, O’Brien is 26, Goldstein is 33, Pittonet is 25, Witts is 29, Lycett is 29, McInerney is 27, Marshall is 26.

Draper is 23.

He’s still a few years off where most of the regular first ruckmen are at to be playing at a high standard each week.

 

[faible]

I see Draper getting to a Jarrod Witts level.

Will be a very good ruckman for 10 years but not quite in the conversation to be one of the best rucks in the league at any one time.

I hope I'm wrong, just feel something is holding Sammy back from being at a Gawn / Grundy level.

He doesn’t have the tap work of a Gawn or the disposal / tank of a Grundy.

If he can be a Mumford type brute around stoppages that negates the opposition ruckman it probably doesn’t matter if he’s not the best few in the league.

 

[TheGrizz]

I see Draper getting to a Jarrod Witts level.

Will be a very good ruckman for 10 years but not quite in the conversation to be one of the best rucks in the league at any one time.

I hope I'm wrong, just feel something is holding Sammy back from being at a Gawn / Grundy level.

Perfectly acceptable outcome.

To reach that level considering he was taken in the rookie draft is a great outcome.

 

[Kakkle]

Got shown up by a player who would place his backpack on his lap while in the stands eating apples during the 2020 season.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Surname is Draper and I'm gonna close the curtains on my time in this thread and drape them.

Nick Bryan please.

 

[Yoda_]

Surname is Draper and I'm gonna close the curtains on my time in this thread and drape them.

Nick Bryan please.

Im heading along tomorrow (10 mins from home and we always seem to play in the shit hole that is Casey Fields) but firmly on Nick Bryan watch and Garatt McDonagh watch

 

[The Prosecutor]

Give Bryan a run.

 

[MiguelM]

Seems to have gone backwards this year.

Need to keep Phillips in.

 

[eth-dog]

Hmm. Do we show faith? I'm thinking yes.