20 year Pokies licenses for 5 AFL Clubs

[Hawkk]

North received $4.3m more than Hawthorn from the AFL last year.

Hawthorn raked in $23m from pokies in 2017.

That’s revenue not profits from the pokies though (pokies that is)

Hawthorn also contributes around $2m in luxury taxes back to the AFL to pay for the handouts to the smaller clubs

 

[Kwality]

It's not, in my view, but this does not invalidate the original topic creator's argument.

Why does Essendon still need pokies?

Had a $10mil guarantee from the AFL in last years financials, its called debt.

 

[Kwality]

They are not determined, it is random.

Whats the State Govt take?

 

[Taylor]

Whats the State Govt take?

The state governments don't have the pokie revenue included in their income tally when it comes to GST carve up. That's a double dip.

 

[Pykie]

That’s revenue not profits from the pokies though (pokies that is)

Hawthorn also contributes around $2m in luxury taxes back to the AFL to pay for the handouts to the smaller clubs

I imagine the profit margin on pokies is enormous, considering the only cost is ongoing maintenance of the machines and licensing fee's.

That $23m didn't include the revues of the clubs they were contained within.




Which you intern receive a major % of back.

 

[Kwality]

I will be dissapointed if the Hawks take pokies revenue in 5 years time.

I am giving them time to find alternative revenue streams. I doubt the club has a 20 year pokies plan.

Makes a bit of sense financially to watch the Pies & Cats, see what business model they develop and adopt what works.

 

[Kwality]

The state governments don't have the pokie revenue included in their income tally when it comes to GST carve up. That's a double dip.

When did Dan Andrews acknowledge that?

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

I'm ok with it.

 

[Kwality]

If semantics and technicalities are the only retort against the premise of my argument, then it seems you really don't have a retort to begin with.

A motherhood statement that is factually wrong, lift your game ...

 

[blitzer]

I'm happy for my club to keep profiting from them until we can find a financially sustainable way to divest from them. Even if we sell them so what, someone else will just run them anyway. Do we think problem gamblers will take solace from the fact that at least its not AFL clubs fleecing them?

Plus as long as AFL sells alcohol at games and advertises gambling in broadcasts you can't pretend that AFL isn't an active participant in some major societal issues. Personally I don't expect the AFL to be a beacon of enlightenment so this doesn't really bother me.

 

[Bostonian]

No way. Ghouls who extort the mentally ill and ruin them are the biggest parasites of all!

Well I'd rather governments raise revenue through idiots who gamble than people who work hard and get taxed to the ****ing hilt to prop up the real parasites in society.

 

[beta_condition]

I imagine the profit margin on pokies is enormous, considering the only cost is ongoing maintenance of the machines and licensing fee's.

That $23m didn't include the revues of the clubs they were contained within.




Which you intern receive a major % of back.

So you don't know how much profit is involved in pokies but it's one of the most evil things in the world and everyone should be enraged with these 5 clubs?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

People are truly putting their head in the sand with pokies and engaging in whataboutism here.

Firstly, Pokies is more addictive and damaging than other harmful things in society. It's effectively combining the addictive nature of gambling, with the addictive nature of bright flashing lights like video games into one even more addictive thing
Secondly, club ownership of pokies is more direct than other forms of harmful activities.
Thirdly, we're not talking about other things. Claiming that pokies is okay because something else is harmful in society is basically cheating in an argument. Address the problem at hand here.

 

[beta_condition]

West Coast and Fremantle are doing just fine without any pokies money, with no AFL handouts and no money from the government.

Good for them they came from a 2 team state where there's 2.6 million people, compared to Victoria's 6.3 million. There's roughly twice the amount of people per club in WA compared to the Victorian clubs, that's why it's easier for them to profit but high horses and stuff.

 

[Shadow89]

Neither is alcohol. Or tobacco. Or caffeine for that matter. They are all highly addictive and there are people who are incapable of controlling themselves. But do we ban it because of the minority?

We could throw in social media too, I guess.

Who are we to decide how all adults should live their lives?

This is a terrible argument lol.

The issue here is the amount of money you can spend in one hit. Problem gambling is an epidemic, not just applicable to the 'minority', as you would put it. I don't walk into a bottle-o and go 'oh hey, I'd like to grab x' and then come back 5 minutes later and go 'I'd like to buy x again.' I make one transaction, I get drunk and then maybe come back the next day/week. The same goes for tobacco and caffeine.

If I walk into a pokies and go 'oh hey I'd like to have a little bit of a gamble, I'll put in x', then the same rules don't apply. I literally can put in 50 dollars, adjust how much I can spend in each hit (up to $25 a spin), and then waste my 50 dollars in the space of less than a minute. So then I go 'oh I'll chuck in another $50, maybe the result will be different this time....oh look I won $35, this is fun.' *10 minutes goes by*...'oh my money's gone again, but I won $35 so maybe I can win the rest back...I'll just put another 50 in. 'Oh dang, I lost my $50 and I'm out of money for the night. No matter, time to go home.'

*Process repeats over several weeks and months*

'Oh dang, I'm down $7,000 and I can't buy food or pay the rent. I won a couple of thousand the other month, so hopefully I can have a good win tonight!'...*Loses the last of their money*

'Oh shit, what will I do...Maybe if I borrow some money off people I know, I can win it back and pay off what I need to'...*Loses their friend's money*

'Oh shit, f*ck, now I can't pay other people back...I know, I'll get a loan from cash converters, that should sort me out! I'll only gamble a little bit of the loan so I can win back some more and then I'll keep the rest for all my debts. *Gambles all of the loan money and can't pay the loan back*

'F*CK, the debt collectors are repossessing all my items, I can't pay the rent, my friends and family have abandoned me and now I'm gonna be homeless.'

************

This is why it is called 'chasing your losses.' It's not about a recreational thing that people do, it's about always losing more than you put in. This process does not happen with caffeine, tobacco or alcohol. You don't ever buy those things and go 'oh, maybe I'll just spend another $50 and try and win back the alcohol that I drank or the cigarettes I smoked', lol. Gambling is a unique issue, and is only exacerbated by the institution's unwillingness to regulate how much you can spend in one sitting.

Don't try and act like the aforementioned is the same as other 'addictive behaviours', because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[kickazz]

So its ok if clubs get money from the AFL that gets money from gambling ads?

Sports gambling had no where near the negative impact that pokies do.

Not being able to enjoy footy without being on it is a path that I'm worried some people might go down; but the problems from pokies are just on another level.

 

[rocket18]

Good for them they came from a 2 team state where there's 2.6 million people, compared to Victoria's 6.3 million. There's roughly twice the amount of people per club in WA compared to the Victorian clubs, that's why it's easier for them to profit but high horses and stuff.

Not all about population though, here in SA the Crows get by with no pokies and bugga all extra $$$ from the AFL and yet Port have pokies AND rely on the AFL top ups to stay alive.

Argument is a bit weak from the Vic clubs saying they need pokies until they can get an alternate revenue source when other Vic clubs are already without pokies.

 

[Probitas_]

Having a fast food chain as one of your major sponsors promoting obesity is another great Australian past time.

Not the same as gambling but not exactly squeaky clean either.

I agree. It's not even a comparable level and it certainly doesn't make the pokies any better but sure, pandering to addictions is a shitty thing to do.

 

[beta_condition]

Not all about population though, here in SA the Crows get by with no pokies and bugga all extra $$$ from the AFL and yet Port have pokies AND rely on the AFL top ups to stay alive.

Argument is a bit weak from the Vic clubs saying they pokies until they can get an alternate revenue source when other Vic clubs are already without pokies.

How many clubs in Victoria without pokies are AFL handout free?


Easy to drop pokies when you know the AFL will keep feeding you cash, how many of these clubs would still have pokies if they AFL stop giving them money?

 

[rocket18]

How many clubs in Victoria without pokies are AFL handout free?


Easy to drop pokies when you know the AFL will keep feeding you cash, how many of these clubs would still have pokies if they AFL stop giving them money?

No idea but it is just another pointer that there are too many clubs in Melbourne in what is meant to be the elite national competition.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Pretty happy that my club is working towards getting rid of pokies, happy to leave them to the family clubs like Hawthorn

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I am not that in tune with our financial situation but it is a legal way to make money so I don't really care.

Yep, doesn't bother me either. Those 5 clubs are doing nothing illegal so what's the problem? If people can't play pokies at those 5 clubs then they will just find somewhere else to play. If other clubs choose not to have them, it's up to them.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Pretty happy that my club is working towards getting rid of pokies, happy to leave them to the family clubs like Hawthorn

And has Melbourne's stance done anything that remotely suggests that pokies are on the way out? So all AFL clubs abstain from pokies .... pokies will still be there. Families play pokies you know.

 

[halalsnackpack]

Pokies are a cancer on society and should be scrapped together with live betting odds on TV.

Translation: I can't control my behaviour and need government regulations to babysit me throughout every day life

 

[HairyO]

This is a terrible argument lol.

The issue here is the amount of money you can spend in one hit. Problem gambling is an epidemic, not just applicable to the 'minority', as you would put it. I don't walk into a bottle-o and go 'oh hey, I'd like to grab x' and then come back 5 minutes later and go 'I'd like to buy x again.' I make one transaction, I get drunk and then maybe come back the next day/week. The same goes for tobacco and caffeine.

If I walk into a pokies and go 'oh hey I'd like to have a little bit of a gamble, I'll put in x', then the same rules don't apply. I literally can put in 50 dollars, adjust how much I can spend in each hit (up to $25 a spin), and then waste my 50 dollars in the space of less than a minute. So then I go 'oh I'll chuck in another $50, maybe the result will be different this time....oh look I won $35, this is fun.' *10 minutes goes by*...'oh my money's gone again, but I won $35 so maybe I can win the rest back...I'll just put another 50 in. 'Oh dang, I lost my $50 and I'm out of money for the night. No matter, time to go home.'

*Process repeats over several weeks and months*

'Oh dang, I'm down $7,000 and I can't buy food or pay the rent. I won a couple of thousand the other month, so hopefully I can have a good win tonight!'...*Loses the last of their money*

'Oh shit, what will I do...Maybe if I borrow some money off people I know, I can win it back and pay off what I need to'...*Loses their friend's money*

'Oh shit, f*ck, now I can't pay other people back...I know, I'll get a loan from cash converters, that should sort me out! I'll only gamble a little bit of the loan so I can win back some more and then I'll keep the rest for all my debts. *Gambles all of the loan money and can't pay the loan back*

'F*CK, the debt collectors are repossessing all my items, I can't pay the rent, my friends and family have abandoned me and now I'm gonna be homeless.'

************

This is why it is called 'chasing your losses.' It's not about a recreational thing that people do, it's about always losing more than you put in. This process does not happen with caffeine, tobacco or alcohol. You don't ever buy those things and go 'oh, maybe I'll just spend another $50 and try and win back the alcohol that I drank or the cigarettes I smoked', lol. Gambling is a unique issue, and is only exacerbated by the institution's unwillingness to regulate how much you can spend in one sitting.

Don't try and act like the aforementioned is the same as other 'addictive behaviours', because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Noone ever lost money gambling before poker machines I guess?