Draft Review 2008 - Re-do the 2008 draft

[Big Fresh]

Imagine getting Naitanui at 10 or Hartlett at 23, that alone could change a team for a decade.
Zaharakis is not ahead of either of these 2 guys.

Beams, Sloane and Hannebery probably deserve to be three of the top four but apart from that everything is wrong. Mitch Robinson and Ryan Schoenmakers above Motlop (he actually just snuck in ahead of Clangers but still), Hurley, Shuey, Clarke, Davis and Hartlett was what got me most though. Then again, Naitanui at 10 is just insane. Ballantyne at 6 as well. And Ziebell first even. There's just so much wrong with it.

 

[The Bomb]

Beams, Sloane and Hannebery probably deserve to be three of the top four but apart from that everything is wrong. Mitch Robinson and Ryan Schoenmakers above Motlop (he actually just snuck in ahead of Clangers but still), Hurley, Shuey, Clarke, Davis and Hartlett was what got me most though. Then again, Naitanui at 10 is just insane. Ballantyne at 6 as well. And Ziebell first even. There's just so much wrong with it.

Easily the worst list I have seen so far.

 

[timtamWB]

I think he tried to pick it by what each team's needs are as well as their talent. eg. Essendon needs small forwards so Ballantyne goes to them.

It's still pretty bad though.

 

[The Bomb]

I think he tried to pick it by what each team's needs are as well as their talent. eg. Essendon needs small forwards so Ballantyne goes to them.

It's still pretty bad though.

I would not trade Hurley for 2 Ballantyne's.

 

[timtamWB]

I would not trade Hurley for 2 Ballantyne's.

Honestly it was the only type of justification I could come up with for the list, because none of it really makes any sense to me. If I had Hurley I wouldn't trade him for 2 Ballantyne's either.

 

[JHF1870]

Unfortunately, most people find it difficult to make a clear distinction between last week's/month's/year's performances and the body of output other players have already contributed. This was the whole reason I put together this table/chart, to illustrate that people's judgement has an overwhelming bias to recent form.

Motlop is a perfect example of this. He's hasn't even cracked the top 30 for total output yet, but some are comfortably placing him inside the top 10. This crop of players only have 7-10 seasons left, yet 5 have already been accrued. That means 30-40% of there career has already been achieved. So for Motlop to break into the Top 10, he would need to have 50% greater game impact in his remaining years than the current Top 10 average. It would be very difficult to achieve. His 2013 (ranked 7th) indicates he's a chance, but he's starting from a long way back.

This doesn't take player position into consideration however.

 

[the distributer]

If Rockliff played at Collingwood he would have been behind only Pendlebury and Swan. In fact with that kind of support it wouldn't have been surprising for him to have a year like Beams did last year.

Opinions differ obviously, I don't think he's anywhere near Beams, Beams kicks twice as many goals, easily covers him for disposals, easily covers him in clearances, is a better kick on both sides, better contested mark, IMO he would be fighting Sidebottom for the 5th midfeild spot, and if he didn't get it he'd be playing VFL because he's shown absolutely nothing to suggest he can play anywhere else, he wouldn't be playing as a forward for Collingwood that's for sure.

I think he's vastly overrated and has only got where he is due to the Lions pathetic midfeild options, he's been given opportunities most simply don't get.

Not worth debating though, as I said opinions differ.

 

[the distributer]

Rockliff averaged `100 this year playing pretty much 75% mid 25% forward for total game minutes this year... When he was playing full time mid he got something like 19 Brownlow votes in 8 games and was averaging huge numbers well over 120 in DT. He was averaging more than any other full time mid in the game...

He's an average mid playing for a very ordinary team, 25% forward time and he kicked how many goals again? I wouldn't swap Beams for a dozen Rockliffs, Mids like Rockliff are a dime a dozen, IMO he'd struggle to get a game for a team with a strong midfield.

 

[AlibiMonday]

Opinions differ obviously, I don't think he's anywhere near Beams, Beams kicks twice as many goals, easily covers him for disposals, easily covers him in clearances, is a better kick on both sides, better contested mark, IMO he would be fighting Sidebottom for the 5th midfeild spot, and if he didn't get it he'd be playing VFL because he's shown absolutely nothing to suggest he can play anywhere else, he wouldn't be playing as a forward for Collingwood that's for sure.

I think he's vastly overrated and has only got where he is due to the Lions pathetic midfeild options, he's been given opportunities most simply don't get.

Not worth debating though, as I said opinions differ.

You're being way too harsh, verging on ridiculous. Rockliff got 21 Brownlow votes in 2013 inc. 37 touches down at Kardinia Park - he's no way near a VFL player at Collingwood or anywhere else.

 

[the distributer]

You're being way too harsh, verging on ridiculous. Rockliff got 21 Brownlow votes in 2013 inc. 37 touches down at Kardinia Park - he's no way near a VFL player at Collingwood or anywhere else.

And what good are 37 touches when he has zero hurt factor? There are lots of players around who can accumulate possessions, the difference between the gun mids and the average omes is the gun mids hurt you, Rockliff doesn't, and you say my post is verging on ridiculous and you use the Brownlow as a guide to judge a player? Please, next you'll be quoting SC-DT scores.

 

[timtamWB]

And what good are 37 touches when he has zero hurt factor? There are lots of players around who can accumulate possessions, the difference between the gun mids and the average omes is the gun mids hurt you, Rockliff doesn't, and you say my post is verging on ridiculous and you use the Brownlow as a guide to judge a player? Please, next you'll be quoting SC-DT scores.

Rockliff averaged the third most SC points in his last 8 games of the year (I have no idea if this is true)

I'm pretty sure you're just showing that you haven't seen much of Rockliff. He does hurt you, not as much as other players can, but he definitely does hurt you. He would easily get a game at Collingwood, actually he would easily get a game at any club in the league.

 

[the distributer]

Rockliff averaged the third most SC points in his last 8 games of the year (I have no idea if this is true)

I'm pretty sure you're just showing that you haven't seen much of Rockliff. He does hurt you, not as much as other players can, but he definitely does hurt you. He would easily get a game at Collingwood, actually he would easily get a game at any club in the league.

Agree to disagree then.

 

[SizeMatters]

And what good are 37 touches when he has zero hurt factor? There are lots of players around who can accumulate possessions, the difference between the gun mids and the average omes is the gun mids hurt you, Rockliff doesn't, and you say my post is verging on ridiculous and you use the Brownlow as a guide to judge a player? Please, next you'll be quoting SC-DT scores.

Do you even watch the Lions? Rocky started to play midfield and we started to win... not everyone has to be an outside player with x factor to have an influence ffs.

 

[the distributer]

Do you even watch the Lions? Rocky started to play midfield and we started to win... not everyone has to be an outside player with x factor to have an influence ffs.

I've seen a lot of him, I'd call him a good honest player, my point was if he played for a team with a strong midfield he wouldn't get as much midfield time, do you honestly think he would average 27 disposals as a 5th string mid?

He's the no1 mid at Brisbane and being a no1 mid averaging 27 disposals and 4 Clearences a game is hardly worth writing home about, especially when he doesn't hit the scoreboard, comparing him to Beams is laughable.

 

[Bailey01]

The shittest top 10 I have ever seen. 4-8 are the most over rated blokes you will find. Ziebull @ 5? laughable... same as half the list. Beams would be my number 1 probably, but to exclude Redden and Rocky and instead put in Motlop, Ziebull, Sidebottom, Zaha... FFS

shit list is shit.

Mate I think you are overrating your teams players. They are all ahead of those two.

 

[Donakebab]

And what good are 37 touches when he has zero hurt factor? There are lots of players around who can accumulate possessions, the difference between the gun mids and the average omes is the gun mids hurt you, Rockliff doesn't, and you say my post is verging on ridiculous and you use the Brownlow as a guide to judge a player? Please, next you'll be quoting SC-DT scores.

No hurt factor? You obviously don't watch him at all, let alone the game against Geelong where they were unlucky to go down by a point. Rockliff's work inside and out work is what kept them in the game, easily best on ground, massive impact.

 

[the distributer]

No hurt factor? You obviously don't watch him at all, let alone the game against Geelong where they were unlucky to go down by a point. Rockliff's work inside and out work is what kept them in the game, easily best on ground, massive impact.

Mark McGough won an Anzac day medal.

 

[cotter101]

And what good are 37 touches when he has zero hurt factor? There are lots of players around who can accumulate possessions, the difference between the gun mids and the average omes is the gun mids hurt you, Rockliff doesn't, and you say my post is verging on ridiculous and you use the Brownlow as a guide to judge a player? Please, next you'll be quoting SC-DT scores.

If you don't think Rockliff has hurt factor you need to start watching him more closely. A few Brisbane supporters had been doing the same thing until they watched him more this year.

 

[Donakebab]

Mark McGough won an Anzac day medal.

The fact you even bring that into the discussion shows you're clutching at straws. Rockliff's game is hardly an aberration like McGough's, he's been performing well since his second season and has been on a steady upward progression.

 

[yaco55]

Rockliff is an interesting player - Can pick up possessions in the midfield but has little factor, but put him in the forward line and his possessions have more hurt factor - He is very creative inside the forward 50.

 

[the distributer]

Rockliff is an interesting player - Can pick up possessions in the midfield but has little factor, but put him in the forward line and his possessions have more hurt factor - He is very creative inside the forward 50.

Stats say otherwise.

 

[SizeMatters]

I'd have Beams as the best midfielder and Rocky as 2nd. I was never arguing that Beams was better...

 

[SizeMatters]

a highlights vid of 2012 showing how dangerous he can be up forward... (courtesy of PattyKisagun)
Two things that have inhibited Rocky from being a 1-2 goal a game mid is that he has had injury concerns pretty much the last 2 years and that he can miss a lot of easy goals. Next year is Rockliffs year and he will rise to the top.

 

[Nab Macario]

Which player of the 08 class will have his breakout season this year?
Shaun Mckernan and Clancee Pearce for mine.

 

[the distributer]

I'd have Beams as the best midfielder and Rocky as 2nd. I was never arguing that Beams was better...

Fair enough, I think the thing you're not getting is most teams have 4 gun mids, one outside-2 dual and one inside, that's a pretty good formula IMO (the best midfields do both though), Sidebottom is our 5th mid, but he's a very versatile player as he can play forward-back and is capable of kicking bags, Rockliff doesn't have that versatility IMO.

If You have a Rockliff as your no1 mid you're not going to be playing many finals IMO.