2012 List Management - Drafts, Trading and Delistings

[Tommycash]

Don't know if you guys have seen it yet but it says on the delisting page of the AFL we've cut Hooper and Mulligan has retired. So that's 4 departed. As for Tommy Lee, the way I saw him play on saturday looks like he could definitely make the transition up, but at the same time may be the kind of player who can go missing in games, definitely worth a punt if he can be picked up either late in the draft or even in the rookie draft, he dominated the WAFL last year as well and was ignored so maybe he will be again.

I really hope we just use 5 and 6 to get some good kids. I really can't stress enough that I reckon Garlett would be a gun for us, he's got that Krakuoer-esque x factor and can burst lines a bit like Cooney. The kind of player that is too good to pass up in my opinion, he should only get better. Do we really reckon Caddy would demand a first rounder? It's not like he's set the world alight yet.

As for Markovic, I definitely agree he's not AFL quality. Give me Austin over him any day. That said, Lake & Morris aren't getting younger, so we can't go clearing out the back-line just yet.
Just saw someone mention Silvagni. He was woeful against Geelong. Funnily enough, it seems his best is behind him.

And let's not talk about getting rid of Grant, these young talls can take time, give him one more pre-season to bulk up a bit and really let him know it's his last chance. I reckon he can come good, and Jones as well. But patience is key. We're in no rush.

 

[Frisky Dingo]

I reckon we offer Grant and pick 27 for Caddy and despite the fact that its a bad deal for them we just leave it on the table and see how we go. They don't have much bargaining power so they need St Kilda, Richmond or Carlton to give up their first pick. This is likely but hey, gotta be in it to win it. I rate Caddy think he's a really clever player with a great career ahead of him

I like that plan. Even though probs wont work, trying is better than not trying at all. We shud giv them the choice of Sherman or Grant maybe

 

[fronkalicious]

We have roughie, Williams, talia and fletcher Roberts as young key defenders. No need for Markovic or silvagni.

 

[Rookie]

Markovic we should lose for a pick upgrade. We are good for tall backmen and he deserves a shot at a club in need of a stopping FB.

Caddy? Meh. No need. Nothing to purchase him with either. Only trade that may work is Caddy + second rounder for pick 6. I'd prefer Stinger / Mayes / Menzel / Wines.

Also: we would only receive probably an end of first round pick for Minson, or a second rounder failing that. I hope he stays.

 

[paulveed]

Sorry TBOW, but what a load of cobblers.
If we allow Minno to go as free agent, the AFL in it's usual inimitable style will allocate us 2 match sticks [ used], and the echo of a fart for him.
If Campbell ever makes it to Minno's level, that is still at least 3 years away. I am not even convinced yet that he should be upgraded. He has done ok at the lower level, however Minno of last season would have obliterated him.
As for trading Lake out. As many have suggested, Marco is at best a reserve or back up. Now if Morris fails to come good, and Austin in my opinion is more of a replacement for Shaggy as a third tall defender, that would leave us totally dependent on the two kids Talia and Roberts for the next few years. And while I am a fan of both, they in reality are not going to be ready for that responsibility without senior experienced help back there for a few years.
Do we really want two more years worse than 2012 while we leak goals at an alarming rate because we have nothing but kids in our key back positions? Kids who would get totally monstered by the forward gorillas of the league till they body up.
It is all to easy for losing to become a habit. One I do not want to see become part of our make up.
There is any amount of dead wood on the list we could shed to make room without throwing away experienced quality players.

I doubt that DJ, Sherman or Vez will ever amount to much just for starters. I still hold out a little hope for Skinner, and a bit less for Grant. Not specifying anyone in particular, but if we are looking to trade out players, surely it is guys at this kind of level we should be considering, not proven senior performers. What are we trying to become, a $2 shop or something ?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Sorry TBOW, but what a load of cobblers.
If we allow Minno to go as free agent, the AFL in it's usual inimitable style will allocate us 2 match sticks [ used], and the echo of a fart for him.
If Campbell ever makes it to Minno's level, that is still at least 3 years away. I am not even convinced yet that he should be upgraded. He has done ok at the lower level, however Minno of last season would have obliterated him.
As for trading Lake out. As many have suggested, Marco is at best a reserve or back up. Now if Morris fails to come good, and Austin in my opinion is more of a replacement for Shaggy as a third tall defender, that would leave us totally dependent on the two kids Talia and Roberts for the next few years. And while I am a fan of both, they in reality are not going to be ready for that responsibility without senior experienced help back there for a few years.
Do we really want two more years worse than 2012 while we leak goals at an alarming rate because we have nothing but kids in our key back positions? Kids who would get totally monstered by the forward gorillas of the league till they body up.
It is all to easy for losing to become a habit. One I do not want to see become part of our make up.
There is any amount of dead wood on the list we could shed to make room without throwing away experienced quality players.

I doubt that DJ, Sherman or Vez will ever amount to much just for starters. I still hold out a little hope for Skinner, and a bit less for Grant. Not specifying anyone in particular, but if we are looking to trade out players, surely it is guys at this kind of level we should be considering, not proven senior performers. What are we trying to become, a $2 shop or something ?

Very, very well put. Brilliant post, can't argue with any of that. I tip my hat to you, Sir.

 

[zephskinner26]

I hope we pick up Stringer. Reminds me a little bit of Jack Darling in his ability to play bigger and smaller than his size. Obviously we could move him through the midfield but at the very least i think he could be a gun full foward

 

[Easty]

If we allow Minno to go as free agent,

Well we don't exactly get a choice...

 

[zephskinner26]

I hope we don't delist zephy. You have to give guys like this at least another year. Same with Grant. I wish they played Grant deep foward all the time rather than on the wing/backline. His half breakout season a couple of years a go was up foward. Need to recruit bazza to be his personal weights coach as well

It would also seem a waste to delist Sherman, Veszpremi or panos but i guess somebody has to g

 

[Dry Rot]

Do we really want two more years worse than 2012

No-one wants that, but obviously at least next year will be worse (I reckon we'll go close to copping the wooden spoon) and 2014 will be shit house too.

We should keep this grim fact in the back of our mind when talking about draft picks this year.

 

[Dry Rot]

I hope we don't delist zephy.

Yes, it would create a user name issue for you.

 

[Dav1d]

With our second round pick, I'd like to see us pick up someone with the following:

1. Is a "footballer" as opposed to an athlete
2. Is good by foot and makes composed on-field decisions
3. Favours kicking over handballing
4. Has a relatively mature body
5. Has a high likelihood of playing AFL in 2013

Obviously that's asking quite a bit, but it's not unreasonable to ask for 4 out of the above 5. We need to get the standard of our kicking up.

Just sounds like you described Tim Membrey, not sure if you've seen him play
was at the nab under 18s and kicks 4 goals a game for gipsland power I think as a centre half forward,
hes only 188cms but apart from his height he does everything you'd want a forward to do and hes a thumping kick

 

[blowesy]

How about a guy like josh toy?? Was highly touted and is a victorian boy. Looks like he wants to leave the gold coast and I recon we could get him cheap. Key defender prospect who is still very young. I'd love to get him to the club

 

[ManOfClay]

Yes, it would create a user name issue for you.

As much as tillerific created one for me.

 

[Rookie]

Pick 6 to Adelaide
Caddy + Adel 2nd rounder + GC second rounder to Bulldogs
Tippett to Gold Coast

Might also work if GC only give a third rounder. Could add Toy as a sweetner.

Not suggesting we do this, but would give us more draft picks to plunder talent and could work for all clubs (if we highly rated and wanted Caddy, which I can't say I'm keen on)

 

[Fossie 32]

Well we don't exactly get a choice...

Unless we offered him a decent contract

 

[Clay]

Unless we offered him a decent contract

That is true.

However, the last thing we want to do is offer Minson an overly long, over-the-odds contract just to keep him from jumping ship as a free agent. We should offer him what we think he's worth and let him go if he wants to take a better offer elsewhere. We have developing talls and Campbell looks like he'll be a first ruck before too long.

 

[TimC]

In everyone's opinion is Caddy better than someone we could pick up with a 5/6 draft pick?

 

[josh the gent]

In everyone's opinion is Caddy better than someone we could pick up with a 5/6 draft pick?

No. Most people rate him around pick 10 in this draft.

That point is not mute either, if no deal can be brokered by GC, there is nothing stopping Caddy from entering the National Draft, and getting to say Carlton at pick 11, etc.

Surely Essendon will sort something out though, he clearly wants to get there...

 

[paulveed]

Unless we offered him a decent contract

That is the situation in a nut shell Fossie. Just get off our a*#e and get the deal done. 3 years is not unreasonable given his age and performance level this season. We can afford to front end the deal given the number of kids on our list. If Roughy and/or Campbell come on over the next couple of years, as a contracted player we would then be in a position to trade Minno if that was what we or he wished [ there is usually a market for experienced and even ageing rucks], rather than being subjected to the vagaries of free agency or the whim of the AFL.

 

[paulveed]

In everyone's opinion is Caddy better than someone we could pick up with a 5/6 draft pick?

In a word NO. No drama with looking at the kid elsewhere, but picks 5 & 6 should be used only on top 1 to 6 rated players from this draft pool, which look no risk options.
Of course if we are offered Franklin or Sidebottom I could reconsider that position.

 

[Mofra]

As for trading Lake out. As many have suggested, Marco is at best a reserve or back up. Now if Morris fails to come good, and Austin in my opinion is more of a replacement for Shaggy as a third tall defender, that would leave us totally dependent on the two kids Talia and Roberts for the next few years. And while I am a fan of both, they in reality are not going to be ready for that responsibility without senior experienced help back there for a few years.

Talia & Roberts?

Roughie & Williams would be our two tall defenders next year ahead of those two, with Austin the same height as Chris Grant to play a more flexible role.
I like Talia but his kicking means he wont be a rebounder, whilst Roberts has better disposal but needs to add weight and will take time.

 

[josh the gent]

How about Josh Toy. Gold Coast's running defender with a nice long kick. Was rated a top 5 pick in the 2010 draft, but was one of their 17 year old selections...

I reckon he would cost one of our 3rd round picks at the most, as he has struggled to get into their team (due to a number of niggling injuries over 2 years I believe).

Would be a low cost, high reward trade...

 

[Dale4captain]

Wouldn't mind us having a go at getting young demons midfielder Jordan Gysberts. Double rising star nominee, excellent clearance player and has great athleticism at 190cm and 85kg. perfect modern size. He is a good kick and has a good set of hands as well as that clean pickup/one touch you want in a player. Just doesnt fumble. He's only 20 years old and he wants out of Melbourne footy club. What would/could we offer for him? I'd give up our second rounder and someone like sherman. Kid has potential.

 

[paulveed]

Talia & Roberts?

Roughie & Williams would be our two tall defenders next year ahead of those two, with Austin the same height as Chris Grant to play a more flexible role.
I like Talia but his kicking means he wont be a rebounder, whilst Roberts has better disposal but needs to add weight and will take time.

Understand that Mofra, but were we to lose Minno, then Roughy is ruck bound. He has shown a bit down there, and don't get me wrong, I am a big Roughy fan, but he has precious little experience down back, and the really good forwards will soon exploit that fact [ same of course applies to Talia and Roberts]. Williams is always an iffy prospect anywhere given his unfortunate injury proneness. As a backman he looks best assisting Lake and Morris, not sure he is a backline general.
Besides I think he looks a lot better as a forward myself.

I don't believe height alone is what makes a player suited to the role of key positions as opposed to 3rd talls, forward or back. It has a hell of a lot more to do with their body on body play, and defensive style. Are they a marker, wrestler, a jumping/punching spoiler, a nudger or a niggler etc.
It is fairly pointless comparing average footballers to the likes of Chris Grant. He was a peerless footballer, capable of doing things on the footy field others simply are not capable of, regardless of physical dimensional similarities.