List Mgmt. 2014 list discussion - drafts, free agents, trades, retirees, delistings and more

[Reg Hickey]

All I can say is thank God our MC and Coaches aren't as spoilt, petulant and impatient as some of our supporters in here.
We have lost an unbelievable amount of talent since the end of 2007....
Egan, Harley, Scarlett, Ablett, Rooke, Ottens, Ling, Mooney, Milburn, Wojinski, Byrnes, N. Ablett, King, and Chapman/Enright unavailable last Friday.
If we were told we would be without those players in 2013, where do you think we'd be expected to be on the ladder?
Not within a kick of a GF, I would venture.
2007 was the culmination of 5-6 years of development and heartache. Players like Bartel and Kelly spent a lot of time in the magoos learning their craft and we seem to expct our 19-21 yo players to instantly come in and be match hardened consistent champions.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
Where we are right now is imo remarkable. It doesn't mean we accept mediocrity or shy away from criticism, but ffs show some faith in some incredible but currently inconsistent talent.
Take Mackie for example. Skinny HF who couldn't get going at all but the club saw something. Was even dropped in 2010 for finals. Now he's a triple Premiership AA defender. Sound familiar Mitch?
Lonergan was a perennial whipping boy here until Harley retired and he grasped his opportunity with both hands.
Here is our future:
Bundy
Duncan
Caddy
T. Hunt
Vardy
Menzel (fingers crossed)
Simpson (how good were we when he was firing?)
Hawkins
Selwood
Guthrie
GHS
Motlop ffs!!
TV (only 25, people!)
Taylor, Rivers, Enright, Mackie & Domsey will see us through the next 2-3 years as KPDs/Flankers

We'll be more than right!

Great post.

 

[strauchnyy]

Retire:
- Corey
- hunt

Delist:
- Cowan
- McCarthy
- burbury
- bathie
(Perhaps look to re-rookie)

Upgrade:
- walker (goes against everything talent wise to retain him as i dont rate him at all, but could be kpp insurance and deserves 1 more year to show what he's got. If minimal improvement by the end of 2014, delist.

Trade:
- west (for an upgraded pick. For instance to GWS who are looking for a ruck plus our 2nd rounder for their pick #19).

The above gives us 4 selections.

Going forward:
- keep pods and chappy for 1 more year to play in the ones if form warrants it. If it doesn't they play VFL and further assist the young players in the same way bluey McGrath did. This is good for our development. It is vital that we stagger retirements so the young players learn off them and it won't keep the young players out as they would be picked on form.

- blicavs to train all preseason as a tall defender. Perhaps start out as 3rd tall (think dustin fletcher) before overtaking lonergan in 2015.

- brown needs a massive year of improvement to stay on the list. I would look to give him 5-10 games in a row to prove his worth (and approximately 12 all up). IMO he doesn't have the mongrel in him to play that 3rd tall back. You must have an ability to fly across n crash packs third man in to be successful in his role. He simply does not have this. He is a soft slow outside mid with good skills in a skinny tall players body.

- HS to train all preseason as a run with/tagging player. Key attributes if a tagger are - big body, contested ability and endurance. HS has all these, has done it before against josh Kennedy and most importantly, it gives him a role in the 22.

- bartel needs to shed 2 or 3kg to assist his mobility and move to a hff. The trend these days is older players shed kgs in the twilight of their careers to assist their ageing legs with their running.

Draft:
- pick 15, 19(from west upgrade trade) to be used on 2 of Gardiner, Freeman, Dunstan.

Team from round 1, 2014:

Hb: blicavs lonergan enright
Hb: Guthrie. Taylor. Mackie
C: Duncan. Selwood. Christensen
Hf. Motlop. Vardy. Bartel
Ff. kersten. Hawkins. Murdoch
Fol. Simpson. Johnson caddy
Int. Kelly HS chappy Varcoe

Emerg. Smedts. Thurlow. Rivers

 

[Malarkey05]

kersten is a proven 190cm marking leading forward who can kick a bag at VFL level.
no afl experience, but only 20....

Was disapointed he didn't actually do more "leading" on Sunday. He should model his game on someone like Stuart Crameri or may I even suggest Jason Dunstall?? He has the right mix of attributes, and kicks the ball as good as anyone in the team. To me he needs to maybe drop a couple kgs which will improve his speed and endurance. Let Hawkins wrestle in the square.

 

[denicat]

People just say mccarthy because he was inj thats all i guess well i hope

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I look forward to those.

I like Cowan as a player, I hope he hangs on, but if you were being hard headed about it, you have to balance his injury history and the chances of finding a player of equal quality with no injuries.

These are my predictions (not what I want to happen).

Off: Chapman, Corey, J Hunt, Cowan, West (trade), Brown (trade)
Upgraded: Walker, Blicavs
Retained Rookie: Sheringham, Burbury (or re-drafted if not possible).
Off Rookie: Eardley, Bathie

Those are exactly mine also.

Again what I think is likely rather than what I want e.g. if it was what I wanted, then someone like West would not be traded (probably not Brown either) and Stringer would go, but that's not likely.

From the above we try and use West (probably packed with our second pick) to get into the late first round, use those two first rounders on genuine midfielders.
Brown will probably get a pick in the 40's or so which I would use on Sully, and then our last pick on a 18 yo ruckman.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Walker is a player I am really starting to like. Like Brown he is too good for that level, but unlike Brown he has a game i think that can stand up under intense pressure.

Hawkins back is a pain because I would almost be prepared to chop Pods if Hawkins was fit. Walker and Vardy are the future.

It's not really an issue.

If Hawk has trouble injury wise then Pods leads the line and gives good support to Walker and Kersten and Vardy as they come through.

If Hawk is fine and those kids gun it to the point where they should be mainstays then they take Podsy's spot mostly and he becomes useful depth.

Of all our older players he's the one who's least likely to have many issues about being asked to play vfl (not saying any of them would have issues with it, but he definitely wouldn't) which is probably one of the reasons they will be happy to give him another year.

 

[chokewood1]

apologies if this has been asked but what about Eilliot Yeo from Brisbane? Was super impressed with him whenever I watched him towards the end of this season and heard he wants to come home. Reckon if we inject Simpson and a fit Hawkins into this team we get big improvement. My view is that we need a tagger. Would GHS be worth a go? Persist with TH? or try someone else. The midfield stars like Mitchell and Barlow carved us up in the finals and we didnt have anyone to stick on them to quieten them down

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

apologies if this has been asked but what about Eilliot Yeo from Brisbane? Was super impressed with him whenever I watched him towards the end of this season and heard he wants to come home. Reckon if we inject Simpson and a fit Hawkins into this team we get big improvement. My view is that we need a tagger. Would GHS be worth a go? Persist with TH? or try someone else. The midfield stars like Mitchell and Barlow carved us up in the finals and we didnt have anyone to stick on them to quieten them down

Home is W.A. for Yeo

 

[Seeds]

West will walk.

Retire Hunt and Corey

sack : Brown, Burbury, Bathie, Stringer

Also get rid of Walker and Sheringham. Time for a new set of rookies.

 

[Partridge]

I vaguely recall reading that he is contracted though I could be wrong. If he's under contract, it would take a juicy offer to pry him out.

Re our list, after a loss we can tend to overreact on players. I think Hunt and Corey are clearly on the way out. Chappy is a maybe, and while him form does warrant another year, his body is the big question.

I would hope Vardy can play forward regularly with impact next year which would send Pods to the VFL as depth. Bring back Dawson and (fingers crossed) HMac and things are looking ok.

If they were both ever fit (and that's an enormous if), we can't play both of those guys at once. The second ruckman needs to be more mobile like Vardy or West.

I'll believe McIntosh is any kind of solution when it happens. He's now played 8 games in 3 years. Simpson is clearly the guy we want to be our number 1 ruck.

 

[Partridge]

We went to a recent vfl match at Casey Fields and stood around the team at the quarter break and Shane was standing beside Ryan Bathie and he was not that much shorter in height. Bathie is listed at around 198cm.
Fanfooty seem to have Kersten listed at 191cm while various other pages have him listed 190, I'd say he'd be closer to that of Podsiadly's height these days.

I'm amazed at how many people think he's some sort of medium forward. He's a big kid, and will get stronger. I'd happily have him as a key forward without any hesitation.

 

[CatTricks]

Sheringham and Eardley will be retained for a third year

 

[Partridge]

- blicavs to train all preseason as a tall defender. Perhaps start out as 3rd tall (think dustin fletcher) before overtaking lonergan in 2015.

- brown needs a massive year of improvement to stay on the list. I would look to give him 5-10 games in a row to prove his worth (and approximately 12 all up). IMO he doesn't have the mongrel in him to play that 3rd tall back. You must have an ability to fly across n crash packs third man in to be successful in his role. He simply does not have this. He is a soft slow outside mid with good skills in a skinny tall players body.

Let me understand this. You're saying Blicavs is a better defender right now than Mitch Brown? Despite rarely having ever played there. Despite completely losing Hale in a marking contest 10m out from goal.

There's way too much love for the Blicavs story and too little practical assessment of his actual ability and output. I'd have Brown in the backline every single day before Blicavs. Unless something absolutely dramatically changes.

 

[Partridge]

West will walk.

Retire Hunt and Corey

sack : Brown, Burbury, Bathie, Stringer

Also get rid of Walker and Sheringham. Time for a new set of rookies.

So who's our backup key defender? Lonergan turns 30 next year and Rivers turns 29 in a few weeks.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

why do people keep saying McCarthy delisted?

He's not going anywhere!
He featured in various newspapers a couple years ago along with our other highly touted draftees.
Regarded as a Paul Chapman-type, wonderful spring, tough as nails and very creative around goals.



stop throwing his name in the mix for players to be cut

I think he should get another year to get over his injury and play some good footy, but 'a couple of years' is a career for a lot of AFL draftees. Particularly ones who went in the later rounds, like McCarthy did. They do a puff piece and photo shoot with the incoming draft picks every year.

 

[rocker_oz33]

I dont know much about drafting trading etc but was thinking (here that banging noise).Anyway something like either the club goes after a another defender and put guthie in the guts.Or trades out one of the outside players for an inside one.Anyway this years draft/trading will be interesting.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I dont know much about drafting trading etc but was thinking (here that banging noise).Anyway something like either the club goes after a another defender and put guthie in the guts.Or trades out one of the outside players for an inside one.Anyway this years draft/trading will be interesting.

We have options for small defenders if Guthrie makes a move (Bews, Thurlow, Eardley). I'd probably have Bews ahead of Thurlow there, because he looks like a genuine back pocket, whereas Thurlow is more of an attacking flanker, who can probably get games on a wing as well.

 

[texdog]

Hey guys sorry to intrude,
How much would it take to prize Josh Walker away? and can you please give me some info on him.?
Thanks

 

[smackdog]

There is generally a lot of overreaction in this thread. We were 5 points off a Grand Final.

It's farcical to say on one hand "we would have won the Prelim with Chappy" and on the other hand say "get him out of the club". Enright the same - he's an All Australian this year for heavens sake. Pods was playing a one-man-band forward line for the second half of the year and people are whining about his form. Tough critics. These three should definitely play next year but be managed to play approx 15 games. Some of our other elder statesmen should be given this kind of management (i.e. given 2-3 rests during the year).

This gives space to the juniors who will be looking to play more games - GHS, Murdoch, Smedts, Schroeder, Kersten, Walker, Brown. These guys aren't going to play 23 games next year. They should be looking at playing 10-12 at best (not taking injuries into account). I'm saying this on the assumption that Guthrie, T Hunt and Blicavs are already in our best 22.

J Hunt and Smithy had average years performance wise. Agree that they should be moved on gracefully. Great servicemen of the club.

Varcoe needs to get more defensive or moved on next year. He has never had a defensive bone in his body and I feel the modern game (Freo's style) might pass him by if he doesn't up the ante.

 

[bulletproof]

Hey guys sorry to intrude,
How much would it take to prize Josh Walker away? and can you please give me some info on him.?
Thanks

He won't be leaving, he is our most promising key position prospect, not in the regular side, so there is no way we would sanction his departure.

I'd say we would want a late first round pick for him, which I doubt anyone would offer.

 

[Pivo]

So who's our backup key defender? Lonergan turns 30 next year and Rivers turns 29 in a few weeks.

In this instance Partridge, I'm not sure it is a case of Geelong necessarily wanting to lose him (although they could have made a stronger case for wanting him this year by playing him more in Rivers absence).

Rather it'll be a case of Brown walking due to the fact he kept getting passed over.

Now, the debate around his inclusion/exclusion in the seniors has been done to death by both camps this year but there is a general consensus that he'll look for greener pastures due to a percieved lack of opportunties.

Brown probably just wants to play senior footy, he isn't likely to care anymore whether Geelong has a young defender to cover Taylor or Lonergan in the event of injury.

If you aren't a fan, you don't care about him wanting out.

If you are a fan, you understand about him wanting out.

 

[Pivo]

He won't be leaving, he is our most promising key position prospect, not in the regular side, so there is no way we would sanction his departure.

I'd say we would want a late first round pick for him, which I doubt anyone would offer.

Well, that's one way to ensure he won't be going anywhere.

 

[Partridge]

In this instance Partridge, I'm not sure it is a case of Geelong necessarily wanting to lose him (although they could have made a stronger case for wanting him this year by playing him more in Rivers absence).

Rather it'll be a case of Brown walking due to the fact he kept getting passed over.

Now, the debate around his inclusion/exclusion in the seniors has been done to death by both camps this year but there is a general consensus that he'll look for greener pastures due to a percieved lack of opportunties.

Brown probably just wants to play senior footy, he isn't likely to care anymore whether Geelong has a young defender to cover Taylor or Lonergan in the event of injury.

If you aren't a fan, you don't care about him wanting out.

If you are a fan, you understand about him wanting out.

I'm a fan of the club, and don't want to lose a 22-year-old key defender when he might be on the verge of becoming a good senior footballer. Which would also be exactly what we need right now.

 

[smackdog]

The way I like to think about next year is this. Each team has genuine backs, forwards and ruckmen (and not necessarily 6 backs and forwards and 1 or 2 ruckmen in a game). Our team has non-negotiables, which, regardless of form (to an extent) should never be dropped. I think we have 13 of these (see below).

The remaining 9 spots are up for grabs IMO. I think these 9 spots should be made up of 1 true backman, 1 true forward, 1 true ruckman, 1 forward utility/ruck and about 5 midfielders (with a inclination to forward or back). These 9 spots should be advertised to those named below.

2014 TEAM

Backs:
Non-negotiables - 1. Taylor, 2. Lonergan, 3. Mackie, 4. Enright
Remaining spots up for grabs - Guthrie, Rivers

Midfield:
Non-negotiables - 1. Selwood, 2. Kelly, 3. Duncan, 4. Christensen, 5. Bartel, 6. S Johnson
Remaining spots up for grabs - T Hunt, Stokes, Schroeder, Varcoe, Murdoch, Caddy, GHS, Thurlow, Sherringham

Forwards:
Non-negotiables - 1. Hawkins, 2. Motlop, 3. Chapman
Remaining spots up for grabs - Kersten, Walker, J Pod

Ruck:
Non-negotiable - NONE
Spots up for grabs - Vardy, HMac, Blicavs, D Simpson

 

[Poetic Justice]

The way I like to think about next year is this. Each team has genuine backs, forwards and ruckmen (and not necessarily 6 backs and forwards and 1 or 2 ruckmen in a game). Our team has non-negotiables, which, regardless of form (to an extent) should never be dropped. I think we have 13 of these (see below).

The remaining 9 spots are up for grabs IMO. I think these 9 spots should be made up of 1 true backman, 1 true forward, 1 true ruckman, 1 forward utility/ruck and about 5 midfielders (with a inclination to forward or back). These 9 spots should be advertised to those named below.

2014 TEAM

Backs:
Non-negotiables - 1. Taylor, 2. Lonergan, 3. Mackie, 4. Enright
Remaining spots up for grabs - Guthrie, Rivers

Midfield:
Non-negotiables - 1. Selwood, 2. Kelly, 3. Duncan, 4. Christensen, 5. Bartel, 6. S Johnson
Remaining spots up for grabs - T Hunt, Stokes, Schroeder, Varcoe, Murdoch, Caddy, GHS, Thurlow, Sherringham

Forwards:
Non-negotiables - 1. Hawkins, 2. Motlop, 3. Chapman
Remaining spots up for grabs - Kersten, Walker, J Pod

Ruck:
Non-negotiable - NONE
Spots up for grabs - Vardy, HMac, Blicavs, D Simpson

Harsh on Stokes and Caddy there I reckon.