List Mgmt. 2014: The List

[Silvagnis]

How anyone can make a judgement on Temay and Watson as not good enough at this stage is laughable

Someone like Bootsma yes, because he's been woeful at AFL level and rumour has it hasnt shown the commitment to improve (not following his diet)

Whereas Temay is a 2nd year pkayer who hasbt debuted yet (not surprising, hardly reason to throw him under the bus) and Watson (who as a young KPD has shown enough, key position players dont immediately make an impact and he's tracking nicely I think)

How can you judge Bootsma harder than Watson?

Bootsma has had poor games like Henderson did in his third and fourth season. Deserves as much time as Buckley and Watson who is older than all of them. Both Watson and Bootsma signed on for two years last year, so Mick must see something in them.

Josh had a poor game one out against Riewoldt, but that's another example of our senior players not leading and getting back to help out. Showed that he has good closing speed and ability to spoil after he played on Liam Jones last year. Needs to find more of the ball at AFL level, but he can find it at VFL level like Docherty. Running player like Docherty and Everitt.

 

[BM123]

How can you judge Bootsma harder than Watson?

Bootsma has had poor games like Henderson did in his third and fourth season. Deserves as much time as Buckley and Watson who is older than all of them. Both Watson and Bootsma signed on for two years last year, so Mick must see something in them.

Josh had a poor game one out against Riewoldt, but that's another example of our senior players not leading and getting back to help out. Showed that he has good closing speed and ability to spoil after he played on Liam Jones last year. Needs to find more of the ball at AFL level, but he can find it at VFL level like Docherty. Running player like Docherty and Everitt.

Boots just needs to work on putting on some weight. Won't have any confidence at senior level until he can hold his own in a marking contest.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

How can you judge Bootsma harder than Watson?

Bootsma has had poor games like Henderson did in his third and fourth season. Deserves as much time as Buckley and Watson who is older than all of them. Both Watson and Bootsma signed on for two years last year, so Mick must see something in them.

Josh had a poor game one out against Riewoldt, but that's another example of our senior players not leading and getting back to help out. Showed that he has good closing speed and ability to spoil after he played on Liam Jones last year. Needs to find more of the ball at AFL level, but he can find it at VFL level like Docherty. Running player like Docherty and Everitt.

Because Bootsma hasn't shown me the desire/dedication/drive to improve.

His inability to put on mass, can only come from a lack of dedication, which is rumoured to be the case.

Plus he's been wooooefffulll in games, even against 3rd tall opponents he still gets beaten consistently, and he can't run and carry, he has shown nothing close to Watsons ability on the ground.

 

[Cringle]

Took my week off of Uni to watch some replays of last years games and this year. What I have concluded thus far with some players.

Rowe and Casboult are both more than handy playing deep FF.

Watsons plays best CHB up the ground.

Lucas's run is valuable and his disposal isn't as bad as this board makes out. Can play.

McInnes is a footballer, White is not.

We are really missing Kruezer in the middle.

Gibbs is ridiculously underrated as a midfielder on this board.

McLean is too slow.

 

[Cringle]

Also.

I rate Cachia.

 

[gbatman]

Graham isn't a tagger he is a ball winner, it wouldn't make sense to try and turn him into one.

Let him do what he does best and let the opposition worry about tagging him, if nick is going to replace anyone on our list it's McLean

So what you're saying is that Graham can only do one thing? How do you know this? Would be a great experience for him, learn the ropes, where to run, work rate required etc. It's just another way of fitting a young player into the team. Playing him as a tagger early days is not going to turn him into one, it's player development.

 

[BlueTongue]

Took my week off of Uni to watch some replays of last years games and this year. What I have concluded thus far with some players.

Rowe and Casboult are both more than handy playing deep FF.

Watsons plays best CHB up the ground.

Lucas's run is valuable and his disposal isn't as bad as this board makes out. Can play.

McInnes is a footballer, White is not.

We are really missing Kruezer in the middle.

Gibbs is ridiculously underrated as a midfielder on this board.

McLean is too slow.

Also.

I rate Cachia.

Agree with all of all the above, except Lucas, who I don't rate much and who's disposal isn't great. This is more than likely due to his lack of footy smarts and indecision. He gives us good run but undoes it with turnovers far to much to be of any real value IMHO.

I really rate Cachia who's disposal is pretty good and who never stops giving 100%. I can see him becoming our main 'in and under' player when Carrazzo is no longer getting a game.

 

[No1Suspect]

So what you're saying is that Graham can only do one thing? How do you know this? Would be a great experience for him, learn the ropes, where to run, work rate required etc. It's just another way of fitting a young player into the team. Playing him as a tagger early days is not going to turn him into one, it's player development.

That's not what I said at all, I actually stated Nick as a ball magnet who kicks goals. We have Curnow, Carrots, Armfield and Cachia who can adequately tag someone, why do we need another? We praise Gibbs for some of the shut down roles he has done in the past, then on the other hand curse the club for not letting him play as a pure mid, which he seems to have lost a little instinct with. As for learning the ropes, where to run etc etc his 30+ possession games in the vfl as a first year player tells me he knows where to run just fine.

The best Mids in the game don't tag they get tagged and I believe Graham to be capable of being one of these.

 

[BluStreak]

I dont believe that we need to make him into a tagger but assigning him a run with role on an experienced opposition player would be good development for him.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I dont believe that we need to make him into a tagger but assigning him a run with role on an experienced opposition player would be good development for him.

Exactly, like this week could go to him your job is to keep Bernie Vince to less than 20 touches, but I also want you to hurt him the other way. Kieren Jack started this way and is now one of the best midfielders in the comp.

 

[Dramoth]

Who can say for sure. Boots was keen to walk out last trade period but WCE weren't interested.

West coast were interested, but didnt want to offer much for him. I am sure that something is going to give come the end of the year.

I think that White might be the one to go really. We should only have 2 third tall defenders on the senior list anyway and one on the rookie list.

 

[gbatman]

That's not what I said at all, I actually stated Nick as a ball magnet who kicks goals. We have Curnow, Carrots, Armfield and Cachia who can adequately tag someone, why do we need another? We praise Gibbs for some of the shut down roles he has done in the past, then on the other hand curse the club for not letting him play as a pure mid, which he seems to have lost a little instinct with. As for learning the ropes, where to run etc etc his 30+ possession games in the vfl as a first year player tells me he knows where to run just fine.

The best Mids in the game don't tag they get tagged and I believe Graham to be capable of being one of these.

I'm suggesting that we are wasting out time with those players in the team, players not good enough to be offensive players or have poor skills so we fit them in as taggers. Curnow, Armfield, Cachia don't offer much as offensive players, have poor disposals or don't belong in the midfield but the main issue I have is that we have some potentially good up and coming onballers coming through and I don't want to see them keeping kids out of the team. Carrazzo is the sort of tagger we want, he's got an offensive game, the others don't. I can't think of a shut down role Gibbs has done that has been good, Gibbs hardly gets a touch when he taggs and is never overly effective. Gibbs has had 1 bad game this year, apart from that has been one of our better players, people are overreacting.

We're a club on the rebuild, it's doing us no favors playing second rate established players and leaving the good young ones in the VFL. Guys like Cripps, Graham etc should be playing 10 or more games this year in the AFL otherwise I will seriously be questioning our player development.

 

[Deep Blue]

Because Bootsma hasn't shown me the desire/dedication/drive to improve.

His inability to put on mass, can only come from a lack of dedication, which is rumoured to be the case.

Plus he's been wooooefffulll in games, even against 3rd tall opponents he still gets beaten consistently, and he can't run and carry, he has shown nothing close to Watsons ability on the ground.

Reminds me of Fletcher at Essendon*.

 

[gbatman]

Fletcher is still 90-95kgs, he's tall and has broad shoulders, similar body type to bootsma though bootsma is still only around 75 kg's. He's never going to be a big player, just needs to learn to play against players stronger than him and try to avoid getting into one on ones like Fletcher often does with bigger players. Still got a lot to learn.

 

[kjr8]

Reminds me of Fletcher at Essendon*.

I don't remember Fletcher ever looking lost out on the field.. always knew where he had to be and what he had to do

 

[Broadside]

I don't remember Fletcher ever looking lost out on the field.. always knew where he had to be and what he had to do

he was a gun from year 1 in 1993 when still at Essendon Grammar, and playing for Bombers.

 

[thylacine60]

Has been tormenting my football team for 2 decades. Enough, Fletch!!!

 

[Broadside]

Has been tormenting my football team for 2 decades. Enough, Fletch!!!

On this topic I may have been a bit harsh on the Board for the club's woes. A lot of blame goes to the ex players who have failed to deliver in the father-son stakes (Jim Buckley excluded). Where are all the sons of guns? Meantime Essendon lands a Fletcher (what we would give to have a 20 year player like that!), Watson, Daniher etc. Maybe SOSOS will bring salvation.

 

[thylacine60]

We need to stop looking for saviours. Walker, Stevens, Judd, 3 x 1, Pagan, MM, Pratt etc

 

[Old Dark Blues]

Because Bootsma hasn't shown me the desire/dedication/drive to improve.

His inability to put on mass, can only come from a lack of dedication, which is rumoured to be the case.

Plus he's been wooooefffulll in games, even against 3rd tall opponents he still gets beaten consistently, and he can't run and carry, he has shown nothing close to Watsons ability on the ground.

I find this mildly offensive - not because of some loyalty to Bootsma, but rather to reasonable sensibilities.

Take a loot at this, note his spoiling, tackling and 1%, also HOW SKINNY HE WAS AT THE END OF LAST YEAR :-



>His inability to put on mass, can only come from a lack of dedication

Or excessive speculation. You actually have no idea. And have instead just assumed this is the case, run with it, and then turned it into an absolute fact. The truth is you have no actual knowledge of his physical status beyond sitting in the nose bleeds and making rash judgements and a couple of hours on the internet.

Basically he is WAAY bigger than he was in that doggies game - oh, and guess what - its not fat.

>Plus he's been wooooefffulll in games

Actually he ha been excellent for a beginner FAR MORE than he has failed. His spoiling has been the best by anyone in our team. Against the doggies he went ballistic. Lets face it he was being isolated one on one and comprehensively beat his opponent.

>he can't run and carry

Um - are you even ? Bootsma's run and carry reminds me MORE than anyone else since of Craig Bradley. The lowered body, the quick bounce, and the confidence to kick long down the boundary line. I think you must be thinking of Bentick or maybe Cain Ackland.

Bootsma run and carry, run and carry - like his number sake then more of what he was recruited to do - spoil, spoil, spoil.....





Bootsma is a kid. He has SHOWN plenty. Lets keep it at least REASONABLE.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

 

[Kramer1]

Did you just Rick Roll an entire board?

 

[BM123]

We need to stop looking for saviours. Walker, Stevens, Judd, 3 x 1, Pagan, MM, Pratt etc

"God helps those who help themselves"

 

[Deep Blue]

I don't remember Fletcher ever looking lost out on the field.. always knew where he had to be and what he had to do

I mean more in terms of build as far as the comparison with Bootsma and Fletcher goes. What I'm trying to say is that maybe you can't turn Bootsma into a Rutten or Glass type - there is still a place for long, lanky types on the field as long as you have your fair quota of hard-bodies as well. Bootsma is a good long kick, and with Docherty could provide run and quality disposal out of defence - just worried that Bootsma has gone backwards (he was going to be a future star after his first few games - what happened?). I just hope Docherty doesn't go the same way as Bootsma. We can't continually turn-over players without addressing underlying issues that seem to be impacting player development.

 

[Deep Blue]

"God helps those who help themselves"

Agree whole-heartedly; we seem to have a savior mentality. I'm just not convinced we've been able to get the best out of what we have; hopefully at least Graham, Cripps and/or Temay get a run soon and they can at least see that they may have a future at CFC - give them a taste and let them feel that they are part of our future; if you leave fruit on the tree for too long it falls to the ground and rots!