2014 Trade/FA Discussions

[WhiteLionFeva]

What "trade assets" are you constantly on about? How the hell do you know where we will be next year and what picks we will have.

He doesn't but there is a fair chance we won't have pick 4 or 5 and it would take that and more to get Beams.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

We may finish above the pies next season which would make the PSD threat a bit more dificult.

Highly doubtful, but lets hope so

 

[Fitzroy bears]

He doesn't but there is a fair chance we won't have pick 4 or 5 and it would take that and more to get Beams.

Not if he is out of contract we would have a bit more leverage then what we have this year

 

[Mr Ripper]

 

[dtm06]

do you honestly think the bombers are going to take a player to court, I don't think so for the afl wouldn't allow it ( how bad would that look for the game in trying to attract kids to the sport) 2. The players association fought for the changes to the contracts, so the bombers would have to take aflpa and 3. The bombers are already facing a massive debt for their court action already, not to mention their lawyers will be tied up for a while yet. Very doubtful. This is without considering the fact that they have already said they don't know what they injected the players with, so they will find it hard to argue their duty of care case.

Better legal minds than mine will determine if the Bombers go down that path or not. All I know is that they've fought hard on most things so and I'm of the opinion that they could do it again over Ryder leaving.

I've never read the new contracts and if I did I'd most likely need someone to tell me what I was reading so I can't really comment on whether Ryder has a case or not although it sounds like he might.

In terms of money, it may be a deterrent yes I agree, but that's countered by the precedent Ryder leaving for nothing would set for the rest of the affected Bombers playing squad. Will they risk a domino effect happening?

Doesn't really change my view from above in any case. If they choose to fight, then I think a trade alongs the lines of a second rounder is a great deal for us and Ryder. If Essendon choose not to fight then yup, we should try to pick him up for nothing and hope another club doesn't swoop.

Essendon really have to decide what's best for them as a club first, then we can assess what needs to be done on our end.

 

[chopperduck]

I have no problem with paying for him. He is a quality player and would add a lot of attack to our midfield. Id rather pay top dollar to secure him now and get a good 7 or 8 years from him, 4 or 5 in his prime, rather than risk losing him and only getting 2 or 3 really top years from only 5 or 6.

 

[JBs shadow]

Whilst I see so many positives in our list and the road the club is taking off field, anyone assuming that we are going to be so much better next season that we won't have picks 4 or 5 are delusional.

The reality is, after the walk out last year and our list in a spot of bother, so many tipped us to come stone last. Behind Melbourne, GWS and StKilda. We've had such a positive year and probably achieved more than anyone truly believed would happen.

But our list still has many holes. We are in no way in a position that we are going to fly up the ladder and not have a low pick. Kids normally have 2nd year blues. That's half our list.

I want to play finals and win the flag next year. We all do, but winning a flag takes years to build the right list. Like we did late 90s. So please stop suggesting that we are going to be so much better next season after exceeding expectations this year.

 

[jackess]

Collingwood fans have to realise that if Beams is traded it will be because he wants to go to another club and if he wants to go to another club, that club has the upper hand. So if he wanted to come to us why would we accept a fair trade? We only want him if he'll improve the team so we are not going to offer them something of equal or better value.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Better legal minds than mine will determine if the Bombers go down that path or not. All I know is that they've fought hard on most things so and I'm of the opinion that they could do it again over Ryder leaving.

I've never read the new contracts and if I did I'd most likely need someone to tell me what I was reading so I can't really comment on whether Ryder has a case or not although it sounds like he might.

In terms of money, it may be a deterrent yes I agree, but that's countered by the precedent Ryder leaving for nothing would set for the rest of the affected Bombers playing squad. Will they risk a domino effect happening?

Doesn't really change my view from above in any case. If they choose to fight, then I think a trade alongs the lines of a second rounder is a great deal for us and Ryder. If Essendon choose not to fight then yup, we should try to pick him up for nothing and hope another club doesn't swoop.

Essendon really have to decide what's best for them as a club first, then we can assess what needs to be done on our end.

I can agree that if the bombers look to fight ryder a second rounder would be ok but nothing more or we start to leave our selves open. We need to be firm with the bombers and deliver our terms, also we need to be up front with ryder. Tell him we want him but not at all costs, so he has be firm with them too.

 

[rusty08]

In terms of having more leverage next year in relation to Beams, I'm not so sure.Especially as it seems we will be forced to use our 1St pick on Keays.
Surely other clubs would have taken note of how we were shafted with our boys last year, and would likely take a similar stance to what we would most likely do now. According to Leigh anyway.Which is stand firm.
This after all,is Collingwood and Dayne Beams we are dealing with here
If there's a small window to go after him now, I'm for it. I trust leppa and Co to make that decision.

 

[JBs shadow]

Spot on Jackess. We are in a very rare position whereby two quality players want to come to us. We aren't chasing them, therefore we have the upper hand.

If we are trying to poach players, then we'd have to spend overs. But in this case, they are reported to want to leave their clubs, and come to us. Therefore their currency drops.

None of this being fair to the other club shlt. It's about time we are hated for being the club that poaches quality players.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Collingwood fans have to realise that if Beams is traded it will be because he wants to go to another club and if he wants to go to another club, that club has the upper hand. So if he wanted to come to us why would we accept a fair trade? We only want him if he'll improve the team so we are not going to offer them something of equal or better value.[/QUOTE
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that unless you have a lot of things in your favour, take for instance the billy longer trade last year we had more leverage with the hawks until the saints came in to it, as much as I hate the saints for what they did you have to admire the play they made. They had the pds in their favour, they were in the right city(Melbourne) and they had the money, which is why we got screwed. No doubt that if we had sealed the deal with the hawks we would have had a first round draft pick at the end instead of a second rounder

 

[dtm06]

Spot on Jackess. We are in a very rare position whereby two quality players want to come to us. We aren't chasing them, therefore we have the upper hand.

If we are trying to poach players, then we'd have to spend overs. But in this case, they are reported to want to leave their clubs, and come to us. Therefore their currency drops.

None of this being fair to the other club shlt. It's about time we are hated for being the club that poaches quality players.

Has Beams or his manager actually said he wants to come to Brisbane?

 

[JBs shadow]

Spot on Jackess. We are in a very rare position whereby two quality players want to come to us. We aren't chasing them, therefore we have the upper hand.

If we are trying to poach players, then we'd have to spend overs. But in this case, they are reported to want to leave their clubs, and come to us. Therefore their currency drops.

None of this being fair to the other club shlt. It's about time we are hated for being the club that poaches quality players.

 

[JBs shadow]

Has Beams or his manager actually said he wants to come to Brisbane?

No, but Franklin's manger never said he wanted to go to Sydney. Where there's smoke....

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Spot on Jackess. We are in a very rare position whereby two quality players want to come to us. We aren't chasing them, therefore we have the upper hand.

If we are trying to poach players, then we'd have to spend overs. But in this case, they are reported to want to leave their clubs, and come to us. Therefore their currency drops.

None of this being fair to the other club shlt. It's about time we are hated for being the club that poaches quality players.

They are both contracted so it doesn't matter if they want to come to our club, because their club has the final say. In ryder case it might be different because a clause in his contract, but the pies will need to be convinced to let him go and that's when the overs come into play

 

[Fitzroy bears]

It's quite easy when you think about it, say if rockliff wanted to go back to Victoria any team wanting to recruit him would have to trade more then his actual trade value for us to release him from his contract, but if he was out of contract we would have to trade him for a little less.

 

[dtm06]

No, but Franklin's manger never said he wanted to go to Sydney. Where there's smoke....

Come on mate, we can't demand Collingwood pay unders because Beams wants to leave yet have nothing to back that up other than an unrelated trade from last year.

It's possible that Beams does indeed want to come here, but no one here can state that as fact at the moment.

In the case he does want to come here, Collingwood are still in a very strong position. It would bring Collingwood to the trade table but that's about it imo. We may get him at unders due to good negotiating but that would be the only way.

Scenarios as I see them all:

2014: Trade for an A grade midfielder just entering his prime. Has a year left on his contract. Expect to pay overs.

2015: As above, but PSD as a bit of leverage. How much leverage depends on where we finish next year which is guess work at this stage.

2016: Could pick him up for nothing assuming that his contract ends here, it may not. Also would have to hope he still wanted out etc. Things can change a lot in 2 years.

My opinion is we go at him hard right now. We have to expect him to cost us a lot but he just fits us so well that it'd be worth it.

 

[chopperduck]

We can play hard ball with players, no doubt about it. We can sit back and wait and see if the other clubs will buckle.. as long as we are happy to miss out on the players and potentially the window we have to get them.

Playing the tough guy doesnt always get you want you want. Ask Crows with Tippett and Freo with Mitch.

 

[Fatcat08]

Geez amazing how some people can talk in definitives but then have a go at others for doing the same.....

For mine if I had the choice between having Beams in our side for the next two seasons vs having pick 4 and whatever else we may have to give up for the next two seasons and risking Beams changing his mind and staying at the pies then I'd be favouring Beams. He is an instant difference maker in our midfield, basically its getting another player in there the calibre of Rockliff. If you have the chance to get a player of that ilk into your side at any time then you would have to seriously consider it. Its not only having Beams there but the flow on affect that has. Suddenly second tier guys don't have to play first tier roles, aren't up against first tier players and as such have a much better chance of winning more contests against those players. There's a ripple effect having that extra A grade player and I think we'd be in a much better position with him here. I'd be looking to do the deal this year and reaping the rewards for the next two.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Come on mate, we can't demand Collingwood pay unders because Beams wants to leave yet have nothing to back that up other than an unrelated trade from last year.

It's possible that Beams does indeed want to come here, but no one here can state that as fact at the moment.

In the case he does want to come here, Collingwood are still in a very strong position. It would bring Collingwood to the trade table but that's about it imo. We may get him at unders due to good negotiating but that would be the only way.

Scenarios as I see them all:

2014: Trade for an A grade midfielder just entering his prime. Has a year left on his contract. Expect to pay overs.

2015: As above, but PSD as a bit of leverage. How much leverage depends on where we finish next year which is guess work at this stage.

2016: Could pick him up for nothing assuming that his contract ends here, it may not. Also would have to hope he still wanted out etc. Things can change a lot in 2 years.

My opinion is we go at him hard right now. We have to expect him to cost us a lot but he just fits us so well that it'd be worth it.[/QUO
Depends on what a lot is

 

[Kevvo]

Come on mate, we can't demand Collingwood pay unders because Beams wants to leave yet have nothing to back that up other than an unrelated trade from last year.

It's possible that Beams does indeed want to come here, but no one here can state that as fact at the moment.

In the case he does want to come here, Collingwood are still in a very strong position. It would bring Collingwood to the trade table but that's about it imo. We may get him at unders due to good negotiating but that would be the only way.

Scenarios as I see them all:

2014: Trade for an A grade midfielder just entering his prime. Has a year left on his contract. Expect to pay overs.

2015: As above, but PSD as a bit of leverage. How much leverage depends on where we finish next year which is guess work at this stage.

2016: Could pick him up for nothing assuming that his contract ends here, it may not. Also would have to hope he still wanted out etc. Things can change a lot in 2 years.

My opinion is we go at him hard right now. We have to expect him to cost us a lot but he just fits us so well that it'd be worth it.

Realistically, I feel like next year is probably our real shot. I just can't see a way Collingwood could let it happen this year. On top of his fair worth, Collingwood would surely ask a premium both because it's us and because they need to appease a demanding base of members. He won't be a free agent for another year, but it's hard to see Collingwood accepting a 1 year extension that would get him there. I suspect he'll either re-sign or be the target of a bidding war at that point.

If he really is keen to come home, that would be our moment.

 

[Fatcat08]

We can play hard ball with players, no doubt about it. We can sit back and wait and see if the other clubs will buckle.. as long as we are happy to miss out on the players and potentially the window we have to get them.

Playing the tough guy doesnt always get you want you want. Ask Crows with Tippett and Freo with Mitch.

Yep its all well and good to take the spiteful angle and try to get a bit of revenge back on other teams but at the end of the day the people in charge will be looking at improving our list, not scoring theoretical wins at the trade table. If a trade will improve our list in the short to medium term then I would imagine we'd be seriously considering it. The people in charge are in the business of winning footy games not of being able to sit back and say haha we really screwed you over with that trade.

 

[dtm06]

Realistically, I feel like next year is probably our real shot. I just can't see a way Collingwood could let it happen this year. On top of his fair worth, Collingwood would surely ask a premium both because it's us and because they need to appease a demanding base of members. He won't be a free agent for another year, but it's hard to see Collingwood accepting a 1 year extension that would get him there. I suspect he'll either re-sign or be the target of a bidding war at that point.

If he really is keen to come home, that would be our moment.

Yeah I think next year is our most likely year of nabbing him, I'd just like to see us go hard now and perhaps working something out too as I don't think doing so would preclude us from having a genuine go next year if it doesn't work out.

 

[dtm06]

Geez amazing how some people can talk in definitives but then have a go at others for doing the same.....

Sorry was that directed at me? Don't think I've talked in any definitives. If I have I apologise.