2015/16 Pre-Season Thread

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

They are on the money alot for mine.

What do they say about us this season?

 

[Allefgib]

So you can't compare relativities with the number of A graders...

Not in the same way no. Saying someone is elite means they are better than others. Everyone 'could' be an a-grader

 

[Allefgib]

What do they say about us this season?

Not out yet I don't think.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Not out yet I don't think.

Spoiler alert:

Mid-table

 

[Allefgib]

There's an explanation. (or used to be at least - not looked at it recently).
It looks at nearly every a player does and the impact it has on improving the probability his side will score as opposed to the opposition side.

Kicking sideways in the backline to back in front of the oppoistion goal with no pressure on you (or the kick receiver) gets you next to 0 points.
Winning a contested footy and then kicking lace out to a leading forward and hitting them 20m out dead in front whilst being tackled by 4 guys gets you huge amount of points. Even if the guy you hit kicks it OOF. (he gets some points for the mark, but probably goes negative on the OOF turnover).

It's not foolproof. It doesn't allow for defensive plays that just blankets an option from even being taken. But it's a very good system for mine. And they continually refine it.

Also - its measured on your last 40 games played in a rolling 2 year window. So guys who drop out with injury etc will drop down rankings if they miss enough games.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Not in the same way no. Saying someone is elite means they are better than others. Everyone 'could' be an a-grader

Not everyone has the ability to be an A grader.

Isn't A grade just slightly lower level than elite?

 

[Danger in Texas]

FWIW I reckon this year will be the year that tells us whether Sloane is elite or not. He has played 2nd fiddle to Dangerfield for the past 4 years (3rd fiddle to him and Thommo in 2012 IMO). This year will be a test of whether he can carry the bulk of the midfield work to an elite standard. He certainly has elite traits - the question is whether he uses these traits and develops on his weaknesses to become a top-line midfielder. My gut feel is he will.
I do think the likes of Talia/Tex/Betts are elite. They are in the top echelon of players in the comp in their position. They do what is expected of a player of their position to an elite standard. Maybe Smith. Even the likes of Luke Brown are elite in the role they play.
Laird and Jenkins are in the next tier down, IMO. Don't know where Crouch stands, this year will tell us.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

There's elite then standout then difference-maker. They sit below champion, legend and star. In between each level you have sub-levels just above where you add the word "absolute" as a prefix (absolute star, absolute standout etc). Absolute can be trumped by "super" in some cases. Eg Superstar > Absolute Star. Gun is the wildcard which can be used for the best player of the comp or a young player on the rise (or anyone in between). A, B and C Grader (each with +/- option) needs to divide the list roughly into thirds. If the team has missed the finals last season add the minus to all players. Won the flag then add a plus.

 

[danger_to_walker]

So… what’s a jet?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Ooh yeah forgot that one.

We need some butcher's paper.

I think jet is a younger version of gun.

 

[Ramify]

It's rare anyone ever pushes a 32+ average disposals per season, with the only cases that have are Dane Swan and Gary Ablett since 1998. That said, to get there you'd need to be on the bottom of the pack at just about every contest, which Sloane just isn't.

The players Sloane remind me of are Bartel and Hayes. They only ever maxed out at roughly 26-27, which is probably what Sloane peak is, which considering how he plays is more than sufficient to be elite.

I think he pushed 30odd this past season. The emphasis was on the damaging part. I don't rate his disposals as damaging as others and I'd much prefer Sam Mitchell/Pendles damaging to Dane Swans piggyness regardless of the stat count.
I honestly believe he can do both.Rack up more possession and use it in a more damaging way. I would say that both of your examples used the ball in a more damaging way than present day Rory.

 

[Allefgib]

Not everyone has the ability to be an A grader.

Isn't A grade just slightly lower level than elite?

I think they are different types of measures.

The number of A graders is measured by who hits a certain standard. A bar if you will.
Let's say you're A grade if you average 95+ DT points a game (ridiculous measure but simple example).
You might get 2 graders, yo might get 30.

If elite is interpreted as we've both defined - top x% of players in a position - then you will always have only a certain number defined as elite.

There is a difference. I think its significant to consider - but I'm not hung up on if you feel the same way

It's like grading on a curve vs absolute grades.

 

[Alex99]

All elite for mine.

Of course they are. This is where Wayne's concept falls down.

 

[Alex99]

Smith

Yep.

 

[Allefgib]

Of course they are. This is where Wayne's concept falls down.

No.

He's just having a different conversation I think.

 

[Alex99]

I know next to nothing about baseball bud. But don't catchers hit? How was his hitting average RBI all that shit?

Correct, yep they do. That doesn't help make an arguement for defensive players winning MVP awards.

In the NHL, does a goal keeper get the recognition they deserve towards winning and get looked at in the MVP award. I don't know but doubt it.

Defence wins premierships, offence wins fans and awards.

 

[Alex99]

And Smith. I reckon B.Crouch when fit would also get games for the Hawks.

I'm also sure they would find a spot for Lever.

 

[Allefgib]

Correct, yep they do. That doesn't help make an arguement for defensive players winning MVP awards.

In the NHL, does a goal keeper get the recognition they deserve towards winning and get looked at in the MVP award. I don't know but doubt it.

Defence wins premierships, offence wins fans and awards.

I'm saying the catcher is more than just a defensive player. Its like saying a keeper is a defensive player. Gilchrist was more than just a defensive player So was Haddin. So are many keepers - and I assume the same is true for catchers?

Goalie has won the Hart Memorial Trophy 8 times in around 85 years. Just shy of 10% of the time. Given the size of a team that plays that's not a bad percentage.. unless you consider a goalie typically plays full minutes vs less than 20

Goalies get a ton of kudos and respect in Hockey. Nearly every game the whole team goes and gives them a little bit of love after the game.
Given the number of games on their schedule and the minutes they play - goalies don't always play every game of a season either. Which could hurt their chances versus a stud forward who plays 80+

 

[Alex99]

I'm saying the catcher is more than just a defensive player. Its like saying a keeper is a defensive player. Gilchrist was more than just a defensive player So was Haddin. So are many keepers - and I assume the same is true for catchers?

It is and the sports cynic in me would say his batting was 85% the reason he won the award.

My point is, defenders in all sports don't seem to be awarded that individual award as beiung the most valuable.

Where as, Eugene Galekovic would be AUFC Most Valuable Player but doesn't get that recognition. He should get a bucket load more. Just as Rutten should have received far more and Talia now. No way do they get 'best on' or Brownlow votes but they should.

Goalie has won the Hart Memorial Trophy 8 times in around 85 years. Just shy of 10% of the time. Given the size of a team that plays that's not a bad percentage.. unless you consider a goalie typically plays full minutes vs less than 20

Goalies get a ton of kudos and respect in Hockey. Nearly every game the whole team goes and gives them a little bit of love after the game.
Given the number of games on their schedule and the minutes they play - goalies don't always play every game of a season either. Which could hurt their chances versus a stud forward who plays 80+

I think this would be one of the very few sports but does that respect translate to the media and fans?

It would with some but not many. Bring it back to footy, this is why the Brownlow is a worthless award. IMO of course

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Laird would too imo - ahead of dureya.

Jenkins & Jacobs ahead of mcevoy & ceglar.

Our best 10 players would get games for the Hawks, problem is most of them would be behind the Hawks best 10 players!

 

[Allefgib]

It is and the sports cynic in me would say his batting was 85% the reason he won the award.

My point is, defenders in all sports don't seem to be awarded that individual award as beiung the most valuable.

Where as, Eugene Galekovic would be AUFC Most Valuable Player but doesn't get that recognition. He should get a bucket load more. Just as Rutten should have received far more and Talia now. No way do they get 'best on' or Brownlow votes but they should.



I think this would be one of the very few sports but does that respect translate to the media and fans?

It would with some but not many. Bring it back to footy, this is why the Brownlow is a worthless award. IMO of course

Yeah I think Media and fans give the best goalies the respect they deserve.
I could be a little bit positively biased though as one of my brothers in law played a very high level of junior hockey as a goalie.

3 stars of the game for every game often has a goalie in it.

 

[BRL121]

Strongly disagree with the bolded part, consider him a step down from the elite if you want, but his consistency is not why he is not elite.
Edit: I would say that Sloane gives a solid 4 quarter effort more often than dangerfield does.

Yes, I was going to make this point. Dangerfield had many games where he disappeared completely for long periods. One case in point is a recent replay on Foxtel (one of his "superstar" games) where he was completely missing in the first half, having a total of one handball. Admittedly, he turned on for the second half.

 

[1970crow]

Not in the same way no. Saying someone is elite means they are better than others. Everyone 'could' be an a-grader

If a-grade became the average then it would cease to be a-grade.

 

[Alex99]

Yeah I think Media and fans give the best goalies the respect they deserve.
I could be a little bit positively biased though as one of my brothers in law played a very high level of junior hockey as a goalie.

3 stars of the game for every game often has a goalie in it.

I wasn't exposed to hockey that much when I lived in the states but crossing over from Seattle to Vancouver, you can tell it's an institutional sport. They love it.

One memory I have is going to a social ice hockey centre (very much like out Monday night basketball or indoor cricket) to watch some mates have a high school tournament. They had like 6 rinks in one centre.

So I can see why they give so much credit to the goal keeper.

 

[1970crow]

Ooh yeah forgot that one.

We need some butcher's paper.

I think jet is a younger version of gun.

Or used to describe a fast player.