List Mgmt. 2015 AFL Draft - what type of players should we be looking at & who do we take? (Poll added)

[thylacine60]

That is a long way from what I said, it was more on the pressure and expectation of a raw 18yo kid to somehow be the saviour of our non existent forward line when the reality is the Jack will be lucky to play senior football for at least 2 years.

This is simply not the case for mine. In no way are we setting up for saviours any longer. Not Bolton, not Weitering, not Jack and possibly not even Tomlinson. We are slow to learn but I think the message is finally getting through to the people that matter. This is a club dynasty issue and it is important it is given the best possible chance to succeed - but not at the cost of another player who could potentially take us further than JS.

 

[gandaal]

So... you want the club to load up on mids/flankers and use token picks to get in KPP's?

hmmm where have I seen this before... got it... didnt we do exactly that for about 5 years and look at where we are now. And then in 2010 when the club suddenly panicked that our KPPs were starting to age... and we had gotten rid of Fev the year before, so they went out and wasted picks on 3 average KPPs and McInnes who would have been good for us if he hadn't done his knee in his 6th game.

And what did we end up with after all that panicking and loading up on mids and flankers? A ******* shit defence and a shit forward line and thats even taking into account the guys who carried us for a number of years who have now left the club.

And as for that other muppet that you were agreeing with... he is aspiring to the group think that got us into this situation in the first place.

For this draft... we need to load up with KPP... quality KPP.

Weitering is our main target. He is going to lead the line in our defence for the next 12-14 years.

Our next target should Weiderman... if he is available, Collins if he isn't and McKay if neither of them are available.

Our third target should be Oliver. The perfect addition to our midfield rotations to support Cripps... because as sure as my arse points to the ground, Cripps is going to be copping the hard tag every game next year and if that happens, we need to have a support player for him.

Our final top 20 target should be Gresham. He will be a meat and potatoes player who will also provide support for Cripps. He isnt as good as Parish, but shit... Parish sliding to pick #8 would be a wet dream and he would be the only mid that comes to my mind who would override the overwhelming need for another quality KPP at pick 8. If Gresham isnt here, we go for Ben McKay if he is available.

I don't want the club to waste time getting these fluffy little show pony mids who are all class and flash. I want guys who we build the core of this team around... because dog knows the core of the team is bare boned as it stands.

It's seriously too late to read all that. But if we're stupid enough to reach for a player because we "need a developing KPP" then we deserve to stay where we are.

 

[LordLucifer]

So... you want the club to load up on mids/flankers and use token picks to get in KPP's?

hmmm where have I seen this before... got it... didnt we do exactly that for about 5 years and look at where we are now. And then in 2010 when the club suddenly panicked that our KPPs were starting to age... and we had gotten rid of Fev the year before, so they went out and wasted picks on 3 average KPPs and McInnes who would have been good for us if he hadn't done his knee in his 6th game.

And what did we end up with after all that panicking and loading up on mids and flankers? A ******* shit defence and a shit forward line and thats even taking into account the guys who carried us for a number of years who have now left the club.

And as for that other muppet that you were agreeing with... he is aspiring to the group think that got us into this situation in the first place..

Something people conveniently forget when they make wild suggestions about the type of draftees we should engage. A few years back we appeared to have about 15-20 half-back flankers on the list and it all went completely pear-shaped after that.

A rebuild takes time, it also means there are no quick-fixes, it also means that we will be drafting for the future so people have to expect some lean times ahead. But, and this is the best bit, if we draft a gaggle of solid key position players now, we will all have a sense of excitement & expectation as we watch these young boys grow into fearsome men ..... and then win some finals !!!

For this draft... we need to load up with KPP... quality KPP.

Weitering is our main target. He is going to lead the line in our defence for the next 12-14 years.

Our next target should Weiderman... if he is available, Collins if he isn't and McKay if neither of them are available.

Our third target should be Oliver. The perfect addition to our midfield rotations to support Cripps... because as sure as my arse points to the ground, Cripps is going to be copping the hard tag every game next year and if that happens, we need to have a support player for him.

Our final top 20 target should be Gresham. He will be a meat and potatoes player who will also provide support for Cripps. He isnt as good as Parish, but shit... Parish sliding to pick #8 would be a wet dream and he would be the only mid that comes to my mind who would override the overwhelming need for another quality KPP at pick 8. If Gresham isnt here, we go for Ben McKay if he is available.

I don't want the club to waste time getting these fluffy little show pony mids who are all class and flash. I want guys who we build the core of this team around... because dog knows the core of the team is bare boned as it stands.

That should be the plan and I find it strange that people think we should do the opposite.

I don't think Weideman will last till #8 but if he does, we should be pouncing on him. Oliver looks like an old school grunt-like terrier, they are the sort of players I really enjoy watching, he'll be a great addition to our midfield if we can get him.

 

[HARKER]

You build your premiership teams from the defense first, it has always been the cornerstone of the sides that have won flags for us. Yes, we need forwards as well and we will be drafting them along the 3-year draft journey but finish off the defensive unit first whilst assembling the other divisions.

Young Jack is a decent size and he will get stronger with the intense AFL training put into him and from what I just saw in that highlight package, he looks a natural to play in defence.

You build a team with strategies that allow you to get the best players for the club, at the most opportune moments.
We can't just say; Let's get our backs this draft, our mids the next and our forwards the one after...it won't work out like that.

I'm still for getting a spread of the right players and for gods sake....backs are backs...hbf'ers are hbf'ers....mids are mids etc.
Let's not pick a player with the view of turning him into something he hasn't been accustomed to....the strike rate is just too low.

 

[Dramoth]

You build a team with strategies that allow you to get the best players for the club, at the most opportune moments.
We can't just say; Let's get our backs this draft, our mids the next and our forwards the one after...it won't work out like that.

I'm still for getting a spread of the right players and for gods sake....backs are backs...hbf'ers are hbf'ers....mids are mids etc.
Let's not pick a player with the view of turning him into something he hasn't been accustomed to....the strike rate is just too low.

And we have such an awesome success rate of trying to turn ruckmen into forwards and flankers into mids.

 

[LordLucifer]

You build a team with strategies that allow you to get the best players for the club, at the most opportune moments.
We can't just say; Let's get our backs this draft, our mids the next and our forwards the one after...it won't work out like that.

I'm still for getting a spread of the right players and for gods sake....backs are backs...hbf'ers are hbf'ers....mids are mids etc.
Let's not pick a playe with the view of turning him into something he hasn't been accustomed to....the strike rate is just too low.

You have got it arse around and misunderstood me.

Right now, we need to pick genuine talent when they are on offer and this draft has key position players of talent. If we can get defenders and forwards then snaffle them, no hesitation because we need key position players for both ends.

But if we are able to manage it that we get a good percentage of the defensive unit locked away now, then we can focus on other divisions in future years. The other thing is that they will all be playing together from the get go and learning to work with each other etc which is an important facet for the future.

We will pick up a mid somewhere this year, I'm confident of that, however, in the 2016 draft I'd be expecting us to completely load up on nearly all mids such is the mooted midfield depth then.

 

[HARKER]

And we have such an awesome success rate of trying to turn ruckmen into forwards and flankers into mids.

It's not just us...but we have seemed to 'believed' we could do so, without having the tools in place.
How many prospective mids have we had and how many have turned out? The strike rate is low and it's low for a good reason.

Let's not reinvent the wheel, but just roll it.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Interesting exercise going back over the past 10 years drafts with out picks, i have excluded picks 1 becuase everyone knows who they are

2005
Pick #8 - Jared Oakleigh - Nicholls #11 Shaun Higgens #19 Courtney Dempsey
2006
#8 Ben Reid #11 Andrejs Everitt #19 Shaun Grigg
2007
#8 Lachie Henderson #11 Pat Vezpremi # 19 Callan Ward
2008
#8 Tyrone Vickery #11 Steele Sidebottom #19 James Strauss
2009
#8 John Butcher #11 Jordan Gysberts #19 Ben Griffiths
2010
#8 Dyson Heppell #11 Tom Lynch #19 Isaac Smith
2011
#8 Billy Longer #11 Toby Greene #19 Elliot Cavanagh
2012
#8 Sam Mayes #11 Troy Menzel #19 Ben Kennedy
2013
#8 Luke Mcdonald #11 Dom Sheed #19 Blake Acres
2014
# Peter Wright #11 Liam Duggan #19 Blaine Boekhurst

What to make of this.... For me its a tad concerning that there is just as many misses as there are hits with it prob make up of 30% Hits that go in to be A grade players, 40% average foot soldier types and 30% who are rubbish.

 

[HARKER]

You have got it arse around and misunderstood me.

Right now, we need to pick genuine talent when they are on offer and this draft has key position players of talent. If we can get defenders and forwards then snaffle them, no hesitation because we need key position players for both ends.

But if we are able to manage it that we get a good percentage of the defensive unit locked away now, then we can focus on other divisions in future years. The other thing is that they will all be playing together from the get go and learning to work with each other etc which is an important facet for the future.

We will pick up a mid somewhere this year, I'm confident of that, however, in the 2016 draft I'd be expecting us to completely load up on nearly all mids such is the mooted midfield depth then.

I know. I read your post but took it somewhere else.
I feel we have several players on our list which we can 're-program' if need be, but only a few.

I can see Docherty playing through the centre but not anyone else on our list at this stage, for all our wishes.
If we don't start giving Cripps some support, we'll just do the Carlton thing and heap the expectations upon him, until we burn him out.
That's what concerns me in selecting the right balance across the board in this draft and then tinker further in subsequent years.

 

[ImNavyBlue]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this fox footy phantom draft has us taking Weitering, burton, oliver and clarke would very happy if we got these boys

 

[FlowersByIrene]

FFS, we are drafting now for success in 5-years time, forget about looking for an instant return on your investment.

How many power forwards walk straight into senior footy and have a huge impact anyway ?? It does happen but its not an annual event.

Players at 200cm may not grow any further vertically but they will certainly fill out in the body and build up core strength. This is why you hear people say "key position players take longer to develop".

FFS we are drafting for success period. Its not an instant gratification thing it's a gratification at all - period - thing.

Name me one dominant 200cm full forward - ever.

When a 2m tall KeyForward kicks 75 and leads his team to the finals i'll be all for drafting them.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

FFS we are drafting for success period. Its not an instant gratification thing it's a gratification at all - period - thing.

Name me one dominant 200cm full forward - ever.

When a 2m tall KeyForward kicks 75 and leads his team to the finals i'll be all for drafting them.

Paul Salmon was pretty handy

 

[LordLucifer]

I know. I read your post but took it somewhere else.
I feel we have several players on our list which we can 're-program' if need be, but only a few.

I can see Docherty playing through the centre but not anyone else on our list at this stage, for all our wishes.
If we don't start giving Cripps some support, we'll just do the Carlton thing and heap the expectations upon him, until we burn him out.
That's what concerns me in selecting the right balance across the board in this draft and then tinker further in subsequent years.

Agree about Docherty although subject to who comes in, we may not need to change a thing with him.

Also agree about giving Cripps a chop-out but we were missing Thomas & Gibbs for a large percentage of the season, they can take up some of the slack in 2016.

He'll have an army of mids around him in 2017, you can be assured of that.

 

[HARKER]

FFS we are drafting for success period. Its not an instant gratification thing it's a gratification at all - period - thing.

Name me one dominant 200cm full forward - ever.

When a 2m tall KeyForward kicks 75 and leads his team to the finals i'll be all for drafting them.

It's a new breed.

Tom Lynch is ~200 Tom Boyd is ~ 200 Joe Daniher is ~ 200, Jonathan Patton is ~ 200, Eric Hipwood is ~200

Don't look to the past...look at the future.

 

[LordLucifer]

Paul Salmon was pretty handy

And he was extremely difficult for opposition coaches to match-up on too.

 

[HARKER]

Agree about Docherty although subject to who comes in, we may not need to change a thing with him.

Also agree about giving Cripps a chop-out but we were missing Thomas & Gibbs for a large percentage of the season, they can take up some of the slack in 2016.

He'll have an army of mids around him in 2017, you can be assured of that.

We have to start bring them in now. What's the point of getting 4 KPP players that may take 3 years to start coming into their own, while we dry up the mid supply. Don't believe that mids will just fall our way next year. What makes you think that?

 

[LordLucifer]

It's a new breed.

Tom Lynch is ~200 Tom Boyd is ~ 200 Joe Daniher is ~ 200, Jonathan Patton is ~ 200, Eric Hipwood is ~200

Don't look to the past...look at the future.

With the evolution and introduction of the bigger-bodied mids, so has the preference of even taller key position forwards. My standard measuring stick of 196cm for a key position player just doesn't seem to cut it now, mids are that size.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It's a new breed.

Tom Lynch is ~200 Tom Boyd is ~ 200 Joe Daniher is ~ 200, Jonathan Patton is ~ 200, Eric Hipwood is ~200

Don't look to the past...look at the future.

And at this stage Lynch is the only one who has earnt my full respect.

Compared to McCarthy, Stringer, Cameron and Hogan who are all a-grade guns.

 

[Azul]

So if Kurt Tippett was available at pick 11, we wouldn't take him?

 

[thylacine60]

Was impressed with a commentator back in the 80s. It was a very wet day, "Salmon goes upstream to Sporn".

 

[KohPhi]

Something people conveniently forget when they make wild suggestions about the type of draftees we should engage. A few years back we appeared to have about 15-20 half-back flankers on the list and it all went completely pear-shaped after that.

A rebuild takes time, it also means there are no quick-fixes, it also means that we will be drafting for the future so people have to expect some lean times ahead. But, and this is the best bit, if we draft a gaggle of solid key position players now, we will all have a sense of excitement & expectation as we watch these young boys grow into fearsome men ..... and then win some finals !!!



That should be the plan and I find it strange that people think we should do the opposite.

I don't think Weideman will last till #8 but if he does, we should be pouncing on him. Oliver looks like an old school grunt-like terrier, they are the sort of players I really enjoy watching, he'll be a great addition to our midfield if we can get him.

Weitering Weideman Oliver and Gresham would be a brilliant night out at the draft. What if Francis and Weideman are still there at 8 (unlikely but not impossible). Who would you take? The KPF we desperately need or the swingman who has more aggression, and competiveness in his little finger than our recently traded swingman..

 

[gandaal]

You have got it arse around and misunderstood me.

Right now, we need to pick genuine talent when they are on offer and this draft has key position players of talent. If we can get defenders and forwards then snaffle them, no hesitation because we need key position players for both ends.

But if we are able to manage it that we get a good percentage of the defensive unit locked away now, then we can focus on other divisions in future years. The other thing is that they will all be playing together from the get go and learning to work with each other etc which is an important facet for the future.

We will pick up a mid somewhere this year, I'm confident of that, however, in the 2016 draft I'd be expecting us to completely load up on nearly all mids such is the mooted midfield depth then.

Does it? Are you sure?

If this draft was really full of quality KPP talent it would be considered a superdraft. The top two are quality. Some of the others are academy. The rest... Question marks. Curnow, Wiedeman and Burton have been injured most of the year. McKay didn't do much this year but is being declared a top ten pick because "he's young".
Collins sounds like Watson mark 2.

Are they really what we build our side around?

Or should we take a kid like Oliver who walks straight into our best 22 and immediately makes an impact? Should we wait until a better prospect comes along and bring him into a side with players who can actually kick it to him when he leads?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

So if Kurt Tippett was available at pick 11, we wouldn't take him?

A guarenteed Kurt Tippet or the chance at a Kurt Tippet.

I wouldnt even be that set on a guarenteed Kurt Tippet, a chance at one.. no way

 

[1981]

A lot of funny theories here

Here's a novel idea. How's about pick best available at 8 and 11 then pick on need at 18


Else take the best tall and mid at 8 and 11 the order of which is prob based on best available

 

[1981]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this fox footy phantom draft has us taking Weitering, burton, oliver and clarke would very happy if we got these boys

Yeah that's around the mark
Clarke is my bet for 19 just purely on where I rank them

And Burton and Oliver IMO are around the 7-12 mark

Did they say if they had any inside info or is this simply their own view which if so is probably only 20% likely to be correct for any of picks 8,11 and 19 respectively