List Mgmt. 2015 AFL Draft - what type of players should we be looking at & who do we take? (Poll added)

[Dramoth]

Wht is it McKay or bust? There are other forwards in the draft, Wiedeman and Curnow mainly, Francis and Burton to an extent.

I'm all for us taking a KPP - i'd lap up Weideman or Curnow, just not keen on those extremely tall KPP's which i'm not set on their chances yet.

If we chase Tomlinson next year, he is 194cm tall... so whats wrong with taking someone who is 200cm tall because in 2-3 years time, he will replace Casboult in the side.

However, if the club plans on chasing Tom Lynch next year, as has been rumoured we might, we would want to take someone around the 194cm mark this year.

If Weiderman slips through to pick #8, I hope that we take him... but I wouldnt be disappointed if we didnt and we took McKay...

There are a lot of variables in who gets to what pick. All we can do is sit around and wish and hope... and people who make bold predictions on who we take are either going to use the selections for points scoring or they get it wrong and look like fools.

We don't know how the draft is going to go, and we definitely don't know what SOS is going to do on the day.

 

[gandaal]

We probably will take Oliver with pick #8 Unless Francis or Parish slides (which is unlikely and in that case we may still get Oliver with #11). Using pick #11 on Collins wouldn't be a bad choice. He is not Watson mark 2. For you to say that shows that you haven't done enough research and just believe what you've read on here. Every single player has weaknesses. Some more obvious than others, Collins is a little slow but it's not like he doesn't have a few strings to his bow. He intercept marks really well, was a big improvement in his game this year and he also rebounds out of defence very well. Collins kept Schache to 0 goals. This is the highest rated KPF in the draft and he couldn't kick 1 goal against Collins. Can't be too slow right? Still sound like Watson mark 2?

If we set the foundation right, we will have a side capable of winning multiple flags. If we don't then it's back to the drawing board. Clarke runs all day but has average disposal. That sounds like Lucas mark 2 except Clarke also goes in hard and he tackles very well, now he sounds nothing like Lucas. Magic. Still not keen on us grabbing a player with average disposal though so I'd pass on him if Gresham was still available at #19.

Out of interest, who do you want to see us call out on draft day? #1 probably Weitering, sounds like you're keen on Oliver at #8, but who would you like to see next?

Personally, I'd like us to take Collins with #11 and hopefully Gresham with #19 so that's 2 KPD and 2 mids. Then in next year's draft we take 2 of the best available mids with our first 2 picks.

Defenders: Weitering, Collins, Plowman, Docherty, Touhy, Buckley
Midfield: Cripps, Oliver, Gresham, 2016 first pick, 2016 second pick

I think Murphy will play a small forward role as he gets older.

youre not going to get in depth analysis from me at 12 tonight. Collins = Watson is a lazy link I'll admit. It's only made due to concerns over a lack of straight line speed that they both share.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

If we chase Tomlinson next year, he is 194cm tall... so whats wrong with taking someone who is 200cm tall because in 2-3 years time, he will replace Casboult in the side.

However, if the club plans on chasing Tom Lynch next year, as has been rumoured we might, we would want to take someone around the 194cm mark this year.

If Weiderman slips through to pick #8, I hope that we take him... but I wouldnt be disappointed if we didnt and we took McKay...

There are a lot of variables in who gets to what pick. All we can do is sit around and wish and hope... and people who make bold predictions on who we take are either going to use the selections for points scoring or they get it wrong and look like fools.

We don't know how the draft is going to go, and we definitely don't know what SOS is going to do on the day.

Im all for us taking McKay at the right time and your right he'd be an excellent Casboult replacement as a KPP/Back Up Ruckman. I just don't think we need to reach for McKay at #8 or #11 and lose out on some other traits we desperstely need, like any of the quality mids/utilities that will be available.

Just go for best available

 

[lzimmer]

The more I look into it, the more I think Gresham will be picked up before #19, and the more I hope we take him at #11.

• Good leadership qualities - captained the Knights.
• Finished 1 vote shy of Oliver for the Morrish (only played 13 games; Oliver played 16, Parish 14).
• Averaged 29.5 disposals, 1.2 goals, 4.8 tackles, 5.6 marks and was in the best 12 out of his 13 TAC cup games.
• Was named Vic Metro's MVP of the championships (averaged 24 disposals, 1.5 goals).
• Clear winner of the TAC cup coaches award (39 votes, Oliver second with 31)
• Combine results: 30/30 for the goal kicking (1st overall), 26/30 for the clean hands (7th overall), and 21/30 for the kicking test (equal 6th).

Only con seems to be his height (177cm).

Gresham stats:
http://www.foxsportspulse.com/team_...=197777236&client=1-118-58943-339768-20320231

Parish:
http://www.foxsportspulse.com/team_...=197753489&client=1-118-10466-294691-20320227

Oliver:
http://www.sportingpulse.com/nfnn/t...97829388&client=1-3020-111726-339771-20320262

 

[My name geoff]

If you really think that, then you are sadly mistaken. Our game plan was average, our development atrocious and people still think that even if we did have good mids and flankers we would have been a better side.

Do you know how many goals those two awesome key forwards you named kicked between them? 1 goal... kicked by Thornton.

And you maligned Ellard... who kicked 2 goals... Aaron Joseph kicked 1 goal...

Maybe... just maybe if we had had some decent forwards to go with some decent mids... and some decent defenders as well... we might have had a chance.

So 1 goal between our two below average KPF's and we still kick 100 points and nearly win a final away in Perth. You are actually strengthening my argument.

 

[fnm_just a man]

All the talk of height reminds me of this....

 

[Dramoth]

So 1 goal between our two below average KPF's and we still kick 100 points and nearly win a final away in Perth. You are actually strengthening my argument.

You just don't get it... if we had had quality tall forwards in that final, it's more than highly likely that we would have won.

 

[gandaal]

Fox Footy Phantom Draft:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...prospects-ranked/story-e6frf3e3-1227590794404

Carlton Selections:

#1 > Weitering
#8 > Burton
#11 > Oliver
#19 > Clarke

Interestingly, has the Bombers taking both Curnow and Weideman.

I would run down the street naked if the draft went that way.

 

[thylacine60]

Believe Kreuzer, Waite and Gibbs all missed that game.

 

[thylacine60]

I would run down the street naked if the draft went that way.

#nolongerstandingbygandaal

 

[My name geoff]

You just don't get it... if we had had quality tall forwards in that final, it's more than highly likely that we would have won.

We lost that final by 2 points with below AFL standard fill in key forwards. This result was on the back of a good midfield and decent/below average flankers.

The argument is if we strengthen the midfield and flankers to the point where they are above AFL standard, we can win finals with average forwards. Strength of numbers usually wins out.

I don't think we can win finals with a great KPF and an average midfield (see Richmond)

 

[Dramoth]

Im all for us taking McKay at the right time and your right he'd be an excellent Casboult replacement as a KPP/Back Up Ruckman. I just don't think we need to reach for McKay at #8 or #11 and lose out on some other traits we desperstely need, like any of the quality mids/utilities that will be available.

Just go for best available

Fine... and lets just go for the best available instead of what the club desperately needs... talls.

We desperately need a tall defender and a tall forward this year. Good mids... dime a dozen basically... good utilities... a bit scarcer but you can still pick them up... good KPP... rocking horse shit mate... in 2010 we picked up a guy who was the u18s AA CHB that year and how did that turn out?

So... if the rumours are true and Adelaide are thinking of taking him with pick 9, and we want him, then we would be stupid to not take him at 8... or if we take Oliver at 8, and the rumours about Richmond wanting him at 12 are true... then we would be stupid to say "Oh... we had better get the best around... so lets take... Burton... a guy who has already had one serious knee injury and might at some point get homesick and want to go and play for Adelaide instead"... yeah... and if that happens... SOS is going to get roasted for picking someone who sticks with us for a couple of years and then ****s off... and in the meantime, any of the other tall forwards who were taken after Burton are going to be held up as the guy we should have taken... and if McKay is taken by Richmond and he shines from day 1... certain members of the supporter group on here are going to be baying for blood saying that SOS is useless and he should have taken McKay.

So... really SOS is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt.

 

[gandaal]

#nolongerstandingbygandaal

Feel the Breeze thy

 

[Dramoth]

Believe Kreuzer, Waite and Gibbs all missed that game.

Yup... that's the case. I believe that if we had those 3 in... it would have been a different story.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I would run down the street naked if the draft went that way.

Clarke and Oliver + Weitering and Burton, i'd be very keen

 

[bad setanta]

The more I look into it, the more I think Gresham will be picked up before #19, and the more I hope we take him at #11.

• Good leadership qualities - captained the Knights.
• Finished 1 vote shy of Oliver for the Morrish (only played 13 games; Oliver played 16, Parish 14).
• Averaged 29.5 disposals, 1.2 goals, 4.8 tackles, 5.6 marks and was in the best 12 out of his 13 TAC cup games.
• Was named Vic Metro's MVP of the championships (averaged 24 disposals, 1.5 goals).
• Clear winner of the TAC cup coaches award (39 votes, Oliver second with 31)
• Combine results: 30/30 for the goal kicking (1st overall), 26/30 for the clean hands (7th overall), and 21/30 for the kicking test (equal 6th).

Only con seems to be his height (177cm).

Gresham stats:
http://www.foxsportspulse.com/team_...=197777236&client=1-118-58943-339768-20320231

Parish:
http://www.foxsportspulse.com/team_...=197753489&client=1-118-10466-294691-20320227

Oliver:
http://www.sportingpulse.com/nfnn/t...97829388&client=1-3020-111726-339771-20320262

He's a big Blues fan so we need him to make it painfully obvious to the other clubs that he doesn't want to go there so we can nab him at 19.
The same thing that Essendon do whenever possible with their kids eg. Laverde Kavanagh

 

[Blueboiiz]

How is Pav or Fev? God is this a ******* real question?

Some posters look at heights and online bio's instead of watching them play.

 

[GordonBlue]

I recon
1 .weitering
8.clayton Oliver
11.Mitch hibberd
19.luke partington

Really like this

 

[El Topo]

He's a big Blues fan so we need him to make it painfully obvious to the other clubs that he doesn't want to go there so we can nab him at 19.
The same thing that Essendon do whenever possible with their kids eg. Laverde Kavanagh

Dunno if it's the Dodoro connection but SOS seems more likely than Rogers to be unscrupulous and engage in those shenanigans. We can only hope.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

For interest sake and procrastination's sake I wanted to go back and have a look at Tall Forwards in the First Round of the draft over the last 10 years. (10 years is an extremely arbitrary number, i just chose it then, I didn't want to go too far back because drafting was less precise but I wanted a decent sample size so that it wasn't just the last few years and we end up just guessing talent on exposed form or lack thereof on kids who haven't had a full chance to develop)

We will be looking at what key forwards are taken in the first round vs key forwards taken elsewhere, and then as an aside we can also look at height.

I'll include players like Hogan (mini draft) Cameron (zone selection) etc as first rounders because they most likely would have been.

2014
#1 Paddy McCartin (194cm)
#8 Peter Wright (203cm)
#9 Darcy Moore (199cm)
2013
#1 Thomas Boyd (200cm)
#14 Cameron McCarthy (193cm)
2012
#2MD Jesse Hogan (195cm)
#5 Jake Stringer (192cm)
#10 Joe Daniher (201cm)
#12 Kristian Jaksch (196cm)
2011
#1 Jonathon Patton (198cm)
#9 Adam Tomlinson (193cm)
Zone: Jeremy Cameron (195cm)
2010
#3 Sam Day (196cm)
#11 Thomas Lynch (199cm)
Zone: Charlie Dixon (200cm)
2009
- none -
2008
#1 Jack Watts (196cm)
#13 Tom Lynch (191cm)
2007
#5 Jarrad Grant (192cm)
#8 Lachlan Henderson (196cm)
2006
#2 Scott Gumbleton (197cm)
#3 Lachlan Hansen (197cm)
#6 Mitchell Thorp (194cm)
#13 Jack Riewoldt (195cm)
2005
#4 Josh Kennedy (196cm)
#9 Mitch Clark (200cm)

Tall Key Forwards (198cm+) 8 | Mitch Clark, Charlie Dixon, Thomas Lynch, Jonathon Patton, Joe Daniher, Thomas Boyd, Darcy Moore & Peter Wright
Regular Key Forwards (197cm-) 17 | Josh Kennedy, Jack Riewoldt, Mitch Thorp, Lachlan Hansen, Scott Gumbleton, Lachlan Henderson, Jarrad Grant, Tom Lynch, Jack Watts, Sam Day, Jeremy Cameron, Adam Tomlinson, Kristian Jaksch, Jake Stringer, Jesse Hogan, Cameron McCarthy, Patrick McCartin

It's fairly clear that strong key forwards definitely have to be found in the first round, with the majority of todays best being drafted here. Franklin, Roughead and Cloke where all before the arbitrary scope of this exercise. The only others I can think of are maybe;
Tex, Casboult, Darling, Gunston, Dixon, Crameri, Bruce, Jenkins, Tippet, Ben Brown, I dunno, any you guys can think of?

But looking at the list of "Talls" vs Regular Key Forwards the elite talents are definitely on the regular side, with Kennedy, Riewoldt, Cameron being more successful than any other player on the list. However Dixon and Lynch have certainly made claims to approaching A-Grade status. The debate will come down to how the likes of Patton, Daniher and Boyd develop, on current form i'd take Hogan, Stringer and McCarthy over them all.

That list hasn't sold me any further on Harry McKay at #8. I could maybe get on board at #11 but it would depend on who else is on the table. I still think we go best available, best available all day every day. And best available is best available football talent, not tallest player.

 

[Omega Blue]

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't Dunkley a lock for top 3 in this draft after his championship/season last year as an underager. And now he's tipped to go between 12-20.

I dont want to come within the length of the G of any key forward who is skinny and close to 200cm. No on the McKays for me.

Funny enough i actually agree with you. Contrary to my last like 4 posts.
I'm terrified of a 200cm athletic kkp, one knee and there gone, smalls tend to bounce back better.
I'm very much in the burton camp assuming we can't nab Curnow.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

youre not going to get in depth analysis from me at 12 tonight. Collins = Watson is a lazy link I'll admit. It's only made due to concerns over a lack of straight line speed that they both share.

Watson's failure at AFL level wasn't just due to his speed. The guy was lazy and did not commit himself to become the best he could be. That's also by his own admission.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...ensive-prospects/story-e6frf3e3-1227414711635

Collins has averaged 14 disposals, six rebound 50s (ranked second in the competition), three contested marks (equal-third), three spoils (fourth) and 84 ranking points so far.

His finest carnival performance to date came in Country’s 35-point win over Vic Metro at Simonds Stadium in early June. He was arguably the best player on the ground, providing a stern defensive wall on his way to 21 disposals and 10 marks.

 

[gandaal]

Watson's failure at AFL level wasn't just due to his speed. The guy was lazy and did not commit himself to become the best he could be. That's also by his own admission.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...ensive-prospects/story-e6frf3e3-1227414711635

Watson was slow and has the turning circle of a Mac truck.

There are concerns about Collins' straight line speed. That can be covered in a far lower grade but at AFL level you get found out pretty quickly if you can't keep up. Beating Schache is impressive but he is the perfect opponent for Collins. Schache doesn't have the pace on the lead to take advantage of Collins.

 

[thylacine60]

Watson was slow and has the turning circle of a Mac truck.

"Think I had him covered actually".

 

[HARKER]

Watson's failure at AFL level wasn't just due to his speed. The guy was lazy and did not commit himself to become the best he could be. That's also by his own admission.

Don't believe everything you read.