Resource 2017 AFL and AFLW Crowds and Ratings

[BobbyMorri]

Stop being so precious I said it will be interesting to see how they the go tonight at Docklands

The facts speak for themselves to get only 9000 in Melbourne where there are most likely 1 to 2 million migrants brought up with soccer as their main sport to get such little support for a local club albeit owned by Manchester City is perplexing.BTW I hope they sellout tonight and next week as its more money in the AFLs coffers.

But you make a stupid ignorant point.

Factually, you make be correct. That someone from an "ethnic" background may enjoy soccer more. I sure a study would find that with a certain % etc.

BUT the reverse of what you said would be saying all Aussies, Rules fans are 'STRAYA people full of Smiths, Bruces etc. BUT that would rightly annoy AR fans and many others who enjoy Kouta, SOS, Libba and the many fans from all around the world.

Stereotyping a sport as rich as AFL or Soccer(and many others) is short-sighted and ignorant to the MANY different people who may enjoy it.

I enjoy Soccer(and many many other sports) but don't have an ethnic bone in my body for example.

 

[jatz14]

I personally don't care for code wars but considering people are so keen to bash soccer, NBL got 15k on SBS2 yesterday and not a word...

Basketball supporters dont have a history of saying footy is a shit sport, and that their sport will take over and destroy it. Strangely, footy supporters do not keep as keen an eye on how that sport is doing relative to footy.

 

[Parish2McGrath]

Basketball supporters dont have a history of saying footy is a shit sport, and that their sport will take over and destroy it. Strangely, footy supporters do not keep as keen an eye on how that sport is doing relative to footy.

Which has been my point all along. If you're doing code wars why not compare to ALL summer sport, instead of just isolating one and smashing it for the sake of it...

 

[Gigantor]

Basketball supporters dont have a history of saying footy is a shit sport, and that their sport will take over and destroy it. Strangely, footy supporters do not keep as keen an eye on how that sport is doing relative to footy.

That's a good observation.

Interestingly, I can recall some 25 years ago article after article talking about basketball's exponential growth and how it would soon start hurting the AFL.

I have a vague recollection of what happened next but basketball did get a bit too big for its boots, even giving commercial TV an ultimatum - pay up or risk losing us forever (which they did).

In the case of soccer, such predictions have been around for over 40 years.

While it looks further away than ever before, we might wish to revisit this in some 80 to 100 years. I've bookmarked it.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

But you make a stupid ignorant point.

Factually, you make be correct. That someone from an "ethnic" background may enjoy soccer more. I sure a study would find that with a certain % etc.

BUT the reverse of what you said would be saying all Aussies, Rules fans are 'STRAYA people full of Smiths, Bruces etc. BUT that would rightly annoy AR fans and many others who enjoy Kouta, SOS, Libba and the many fans from all around the world.

Stereotyping a sport as rich as AFL or Soccer(and many others) is short-sighted and ignorant to the MANY different people who may enjoy it.

I enjoy Soccer(and many many other sports) but don't have an ethnic bone in my body for example.

I think you are missing his point. Most migrants would come over as soccer fans (or cricket with Indian and Sri Lankans) and with the huge migrant population in Australia you would expect a much stronger Soccer league then what we have. It's got nothing to do with ethnicity but more to do with culture they are from. As people integrate they will slowly take up new things ala Football and Italian's Greek ect are no longer migrants.
Just off my personal experiences I have I had I can tell you nearly every islander I know loves rugby and nearly every Indian I know loves Cricket. It's a stereotype because it's true. Also every second generation Islander I grew up with played football and of the 50 odd Islander migrants I know not one follows football

 

[BobbyMorri]

I think you are missing his point. Most migrants would come over as soccer fans (or cricket with Indian and Sri Lankans) and with the huge migrant population in Australia you would expect a much stronger Soccer league then what we have. It's got nothing to do with ethnicity but more to do with culture they are from. As people integrate they will slowly take up new things ala Football and Italian's Greek ect are no longer migrants.
Just off my personal experiences I have I had I can tell you nearly every islander I know loves rugby and nearly every Indian I know loves Cricket. It's a stereotype because it's true. Also every second generation Islander I grew up with played football and of the 50 odd Islander migrants I know not one follows football

So, only migrants go to a-league soccer matches????

That was the point he made and it was widely off the mark.

I said it before and i say it again. Code "supporters" (or i should say haters) are annoying as all hell.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

So, only migrants go to a-league soccer matches????

That was the point he made and it was widely off the mark.

I said it before and i say it again. Code "supporters" (or i should say haters) are annoying as all hell.

Of course not but there are millions of migrants out there who's number one sport would be soccer not counting the millions of Australian born people who love the game so the a-league should really be doing better then it is. The reason it's going nowhere though and probably never will is because of the Australian culture

 

[NoobPie]

So, only migrants go to a-league soccer matches????

That was the point he made and it was widely off the mark.

I said it before and i say it again. Code "supporters" (or i should say haters) are annoying as all hell.

No, that wasn't the point he made at all. He put soccer's lack of growth at the professional / spectator level in the context of the sheer number of people of inward migration that comes from countries where soccer is the major football code (albeit more recently this includes countries like India and china where soccer is certainly not culturally central)

It's been this way for many decades but clearly the bulk of melbournes migrants, to the extent they engage with Australian professional sport, are drawn to Australian football

 

[BobbyMorri]

Of course not but there are millions of migrants out there who's number one sport would be soccer not counting the millions of Australian born people who love the game so the a-league should really be doing better then it is. The reason it's going nowhere though and probably never will is because of the Australian culture

It was how he phased. Millions of people live in Melbourne(not millions of migrants). a lot like soccer by either playing it or watching it. By pointing out the migrant's bit, they were (unintentionally or intentionally) saying that only migrants loved the game which is an ignorant thing to say.

I actually agree with this. The a-league should be doing better. There are thousands of "euro snubs" out there or disinterested fans. But that is another topic for another day.

Not sure what you mean about "Australian" culture, but if you mean(Simply put) footy(AR+RL) in the winter, Cricket in summer, then I don't really disagree. As many great strides soccer does in the country and will continue to do, I highly doubt it will ever reach the Ashes, or walking to the MCG or SoO. Those things are ingrained as part of the majority of us and our history. Any real change here takes generations and even then, no sport/event ever truly dies. Just look at what happened in Chicago when the Cubs won the WS.

 

[Our Game]

No, that wasn't the point he made at all. He put soccer's lack of growth at the professional / spectator level in the context of the sheer number of people of inward migration that comes from countries where soccer is the major football code (albeit more recently this includes countries like India and china where soccer is certainly not culturally central)

It's been this way for many decades but clearly the bulk of melbournes migrants, to the extent they engage with Australian professional sport, are drawn to Australian football

Thats exactly what I mean.

We have had millions of migrants ( about 2 million according to the ABS)come to Victoria since WW2 most with a European/English soccer background that should have over the past 70 years turned into massive support both playing and supporting soccer but it hasent for a number of reasons that many people on here have alluded to.
I would also suggest Noob that the number of migrants and their offspring of all types is much higher at AFL games than what the soccer gets.
On a side note about crowds the WSW got 12,000 at Spotless yesterday so the 2017 GWS crowds dont look that bad aftrerall.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Soccer sucks

 

[gaelictiogar]

I've long stopped worrying about soccer in relation to footy.

Soccer is HUGE here but in a very specific sense. Soccer as Hollywood is huge and has almost limitless appeal to event followers. If Manchester United or Barcelona reserves were playing the Wombat 11 in the G or Stade de oz it would sell out because those teams are Hollywood.

Equally if the Golden State Warriors or LA Lakers put in an exhib. it would sell out in minutes. Hollywood.

However native Australian soccer -r indeed basketball - is seen by the event followers as....well...not an "event" and it will always struggle as a result.

In short the interest in Real Madrid, Barcelona and the rich EPL teams innoculates us against any real take off in Australian soccer......thankfully.

 

[NoobPie]

I've long stopped worrying about soccer in relation to footy.

Soccer is HUGE here but in a very specific sense. Soccer as Hollywood is huge and has almost limitless appeal to event followers. If Manchester United or Barcelona reserves were playing the Wombat 11 in the G or Stade de oz it would sell out because those teams are Hollywood.

Equally if the Golden State Warriors or LA Lakers put in an exhib. it would sell out in minutes. Hollywood.

However native Australian soccer -r indeed basketball - is seen by the event followers as....well...not an "event" and it will always struggle as a result.

In short the interest in Real Madrid, Barcelona and the rich EPL teams innoculates us against any real take off in Australian soccer......thankfully.

I'd say it is the interest in the AFL (and the sheer glory of it) and to a lesser extent the NRL more than anything that "inoculates us against any real take off in Australian soccer".

The european super clubs have demonstrated they can come over here and fill out stadiums (at least once....though Liverpool have done it several times with the aid of a sing-a-long and a huge scouser diaspora) with pricey tickets but the ratings for these games are very low. Even for decent timed premier league matches and champions league matches there is not a lot of evidence ratings wise that people are watching European soccer in great numbers. There are some dedicated fans but the great bulk are either highlights watchers or once a yearers

Fortunately for Australia we had a rich football culture that evolved into a codified, culturally embedded sport arguably ahead of soccer in the UK even. This has spared us the cultural subjection that all these countries where the concept of "football" came later, where invariably their premier sporting competitions are feeder leagues and generally with a significantly lower value than the EPL TV rights are in their country

While admittedly it is not worth 5% of the energy I waste on it, my issue is certainly not with any "threat" soccer poses to football, it is the cultural cringing crap - combined with the profound sense of entitlement and disrespect of a certain type of australia soccer fan - that for instance can see a soccer fan come on to a football forum and assert that "soccer is just as aussie as any other sport" and accuse people of racism for saying otherwise.

Unfortunately it seems that as much as Australian football goes from all conquering strength to strength the Australian Cultural Cringe endures

 

[Gigantor]

It was how he phased. Millions of people live in Melbourne(not millions of migrants). a lot like soccer by either playing it or watching it. By pointing out the migrant's bit, they were (unintentionally or intentionally) saying that only migrants loved the game which is an ignorant thing to say.

I actually agree with this. The a-league should be doing better. There are thousands of "euro snubs" out there or disinterested fans. But that is another topic for another day.

Not sure what you mean about "Australian" culture, but if you mean(Simply put) footy(AR+RL) in the winter, Cricket in summer, then I don't really disagree. As many great strides soccer does in the country and will continue to do, I highly doubt it will ever reach the Ashes, or walking to the MCG or SoO. Those things are ingrained as part of the majority of us and our history. Any real change here takes generations and even then, no sport/event ever truly dies. Just look at what happened in Chicago when the Cubs won the WS.

I'm not sure what you are reacting against.

Post WWII, especially during the 50s and 60s, soccer in this country was saved by the post-war migration boom. So it's undoubtedly true that for many decades, the growth of soccer in this country aligned with the migration boom (the largest migration groups during that period were: the British, Italians, Greeks and Yugoslavs - the latter three created multiple semi-professional clubs in this country, including some of the most successful clubs in the history of the game).

By the 1990s, this had definitely run it's course, and ultimately it is why the A-League was created - to sever links with these ethnic clubs.

That has been largely successful I think, but not only do many grand children of these original immigrants still follow the game (even if they also follow other sports), many migrants to this country continue to come from countries where they will at least have familiarity with soccer, and that must continue to benefit soccer at least to a certain degree.

 

[Gigantor]

Unfortunately it seems that as much as Australian football goes from all conquering strength to strength the Australian Cultural Cringe endures

I actually like soccer, but I too hate this sort of rubbish, the idiotic pronouncements (which we've been hearing for nigh on 40 years now), etc, etc.

So yes, it's not the game, it's not the socceroos, it's not the A-League, it's the moronic minority who have trouble accepting what a speck they are in this country at the professional level.

 

[gaelictiogar]

I'd say it is the interest in the AFL (and the sheer glory of it) and to a lesser extent the NRL more than anything that "inoculates us against any real take off in Australian soccer".

The european super clubs have demonstrated they can come over here and fill out stadiums (at least once....though Liverpool have done it several times with the aid of a sing-a-long and a huge scouser diaspora) with pricey tickets but the ratings for these games are very low. Even for decent timed premier league matches and champions league matches there is not a lot of evidence ratings wise that people are watching European soccer in great numbers. There are some dedicated fans but the great bulk are either highlights watchers or once a yearers

Fortunately for Australia we had a rich football culture that evolved into a codified, culturally embedded sport arguably ahead of soccer in the UK even. This has spared us the cultural subjection that all these countries where the concept of "football" came later, where invariably their premier sporting competitions are feeder leagues and generally with a significantly lower value than the EPL TV rights are in their country

While admittedly it is not worth 5% of the energy I waste on it, my issue is certainly not with any "threat" soccer poses to football, it is the cultural cringing crap - combined with the profound sense of entitlement and disrespect of a certain type of australia soccer fan - that for instance can see a soccer fan come on to a football forum and assert that "soccer is just as aussie as any other sport" and accuse people of racism for saying otherwise.

Unfortunately it seems that as much as Australian football goes from all conquering strength to strength the Australian Cultural Cringe endures

I agree with virtually every point you make.

I agree that AFL/NRL is much stronger than is often supposed.

I don't care if someone calls a cultural opinion I have "racist". I won't allow people close down debate like that.

Yes there are irritating soccer boys but so what mate? Who cares really? Usually kids.

Cultural cringe exists to a greater or lesser extent everywhere outside the UK and USA and is unavoidable. Forget it.

We basically agree taht big crowd soccer here is event following.

 

[NoobPie]

I agree with virtually every point you make.

I agree that AFL/NRL is much stronger than is often supposed.

I don't care if someone calls a cultural opinion I have "racist". I won't allow people close down debate like that.

Yes there are irritating soccer boys but so what mate? Who cares really? Usually kids.

Cultural cringe exists to a greater or lesser extent everywhere outside the UK and USA and is unavoidable. Forget it.

We basically agree taht big crowd soccer here is event following.

Well, I'm sure we agree on most things but...

...the cultural cringe is not harmless and is certainly does not exist everywhere outside of the UK and the US as it does in Australia. Other countries might defer to the UK/ US in terms of their professional sporting competitions but the vast majority of countries have unique cultural attributes widely valued
in those places. Very few would, for instance, defer to either of these countries in terms of their cuisines!

But what of Australia? Film? Music? Fine arts? Literature? etc. Australian football particularly and to a lessor extent the NRL are the cultural success stories.

And it's not just kids. It permeates Australian soccer culture and is reflected in many, (though far from all), of its highest profile proponents - Simon Hill, Craig Foster etc. In terms of the former, could you imagine an englishman migrating to america saying this about the NFL:

"You’re not going to like me saying this, and I know some of your listeners won’t, but we’ve got to stop investing government money, state and federal, in internationally dead-end sports like AFL and rugby league,"

Can you imagine?

But he says this, and gets away with it, because of the cover provided by the Australian Cultural Cringe - the deeply held assumption, even by many of the fans that go to AFL games every week, that the whole thing is inferior because it's Australian

 

[Rouel_14]

Okay,
I really don’t understand the hate from both sides of the argument.
They don’t share and fight for the same stadiums, they don’t even play in the same months.

One game has come in Melbourne at least has history dating back 150 years, where as the a league is in the spectrum a new phenomenon and is always going to need time to grow and prosper.

Instead of feeding and inciting hate, why not embrace both, let them co-exist and get behind a team in both comps, after all we are the sporting capital of the world for a reason..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Our Game]

Okay,
I really don’t understand the hate from both sides of the argument.
They don’t share and fight for the same stadiums, they don’t even play in the same months.

One game has come in Melbourne at least has history dating back 150 years Actually next year its 160 years

Instead of feeding and inciting hate, why not embrace both, let them co-exist and get behind a team in both comps, after all we are the sporting capital of the world for a reason..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

"One game has come in Melbourne at least has history dating back 150 years"
Actually next year its 160 years since our own unique game was founded

For starters lets have the soccer urgers like Foster,Gallop et all stop putting our own game down and predicting the demise of Australian Football then we might just show some respect.

 

[Cmarsh]

"One game has come in Melbourne at least has history dating back 150 years"
Actually next year its 160 years since our own unique game was founded

For starters lets have the soccer urgers like Foster,Gallop et all stop putting our own game down and predicting the demise of Australian Football then we might just show some respect.

You can add Simon Hill to that, with his calls to defund AFL because it's "not international" despite the International Rules outrating the Socceroos vs Japan a couple of years ago.

 

[Rouel_14]

"One game has come in Melbourne at least has history dating back 150 years"
Actually next year its 160 years since our own unique game was founded

For starters lets have the soccer urgers like Foster,Gallop et all stop putting our own game down and predicting the demise of Australian Football then we might just show some respect.

That’s my point, it’s been created and part of Melbourne history for over 160 years, it’s always going to be the big dog in town.
That said, what is wrong with other sports trying succeed in our great city!

This he said, she said does nothing great for either code and both sides look childish..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[NoobPie]

Okay,
I really don’t understand the hate from both sides of the argument.
They don’t share and fight for the same stadiums, they don’t even play in the same months.

One game has come in Melbourne at least has history dating back 150 years, where as the a league is in the spectrum a new phenomenon and is always going to need time to grow and prosper.

Instead of feeding and inciting hate, why not embrace both, let them co-exist and get behind a team in both comps, after all we are the sporting capital of the world for a reason..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'm not sure you get it. I certainly don't hate soccer, quite the opposite...I just don't like the cultural cringe and the toxically disrespectful behaviour and attitude of a subsection of Australian soccer that it enables

....I don't really know or care if Melbourne is the "sporting capital of the world". It's a rather subjective, largely self styled moniker. If we are it has everything to do with having a 120 year old world class football competition centered on its city in a code invented in the city and absolutely nothing to do with a couple of relatively small soccer franchises.

I know a few people who get some enjoyment out of the A League....I don't begrudge them that at all

 

[Roddy]

I'm not sure you get it. I certainly don't hate soccer, quite the opposite...I just don't like the cultural cringe and the toxically disrespectful behaviour and attitude of a subsection of Australian soccer that it enables

....I don't really know or care if Melbourne is the "sporting capital of the world". It's a rather subjective, largely self styled moniker. If we are it has everything to do with having a 120 year old world class football competition centered on its city in a code invented in the city and absolutely nothing to do with a couple of relatively small soccer franchises.

I know a few people who get some enjoyment out of the A League....I don't begrudge them that at all

Self styled, you know, apart from being given that honour by the London-based company 'SportBusiness' in Switzerland last year.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3550895/Melbourne-named-sporting-capital-world.html

 

[NoobPie]

Self styled, you know, apart from being given that honour by the London-based company 'SportBusiness' in Switzerland last year.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3550895/Melbourne-named-sporting-capital-world.html

I left some weasel space with the "largely"...anyway, I suspect soccer had no bearing on Melbourne winning the award. So even for the cultural cringers we can get "international recognition" with a purely domestic competition getting the lions share of resources!

That’s my point, it’s been created and part of Melbourne history for over 160 years, it’s always going to be the big dog in town.
That said, what is wrong with other sports trying succeed in our great city!

This he said, she said does nothing great for either code and both sides look childish..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Speaking of weaselling....you are constructing a false equivalence where it doesn't exist

Overwhelmingly the "AFL world" is very respectful towards soccer, fully acknowledges the games global appeal and its own games lack of it. There are apparently more people in the AFL media now than there are listed players....throw in coaches and administrators and you have at least a couple of thousand people. How many could you identify as being openly hostile and belittling of soccer?

 

[ptrg]

If anyone cares about crowds, the Australia v Syria got a very poor 42,136 to it- entire deck empty like 98% of NRL games.
Not a good look for a do or die World Cup qualifier..