2017 Best midfield and depth

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LittleG said:
Really need to remove hitouts entirely from your table. You may get a few different conclusions.
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Nah, hitouts stay. It's part of the game and a vital part of midfield dominance. I'm sorry that you're not rated as number one for the regular season in 2016, but you did finish 7th. This has you as 8th. Big deal.

The formula actually makes teams with good clearance numbers to hitout numbers better because your lot is terrible at it. I didn't include it for Port Adelaide at all. With hitouts removed (Inside 50s/(Contested Possession/Clearances)), it puts your side lower than Brisbane, with Port Adelaide 3rd.

I don't know what it is you're looking for, but it would be confirmation bias if you found it. Your team isn't the best team in the competition - at least, it wasn't for the 2016 regular season. It's, as I've said, a great midfield (3rd) with a great defence (2nd) but a poor attack (16th). Which is why you finished the regular season where you did.
 
HairyO said:
Possibly. It was our Port Appreciation night.

Apparently they did well without Gray. Ignoring us having no Frawley then 5 min in to the game losing Lake and having no defence for 30 min while Clarko reorganised the entire team structure.

After that we outscored them 3 to 1.

But their midfield is top 5...
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What has losing two defenders got to do with your midfield?

It was more that Clarkson thought he could go after us with Gray missing and so went full attack. Just like Melbourne did in the first game we played in 2016. When it failed, he restructured your midfield to play a more lock down style that we don't cope with well - the style everyone uses against us.
 

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HairyO said:
That bloke from North Melbourne goes okay.

I wouldnt put NicNat in the same league as him and Gawn. Clearly the 2 best ruck weve seen in a long time.
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Ok with Goldstein, get he was hampered a bit with injury last year. I would have thought Nic Nac up there as well, but it's opinion.


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Janus said:
What has losing two defenders got to do with your midfield?

It was more that Clarkson thought he could go after us with Gray missing and so went full attack. Just like Melbourne did in the first game we played in 2016. When it failed, he restructured your midfield to play a more lock down style that we don't cope with well - the style everyone uses against us.
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Do you have stats for that?
 
HairyO said:
NicNat and Mumford are in the next tier. But the gap is huge. Neither are regular game winners.
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Ok was curious
I wouldn't have Mummy in that class as a ruck. Maybe rate Nic Nat a bit on the pain he causes us.
If you were rating big tough inside mids Mummy maybe gets a gig, we love him though.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Janus said:
Nah, hitouts stay. It's part of the game and a vital part of midfield dominance. I'm sorry that you're not rated as number one for the regular season in 2016, but you did finish 7th. This has you as 8th. Big deal.

The formula actually makes teams with good clearance numbers to hitout numbers better because your lot is terrible at it. I didn't include it for Port Adelaide at all. With hitouts removed (Inside 50s/(Contested Possession/Clearances)), it puts your side lower than Brisbane, with Port Adelaide 3rd.

I don't know what it is you're looking for, but it would be confirmation bias if you found it. Your team isn't the best team in the competition - at least, it wasn't for the 2016 regular season. It's, as I've said, a great midfield (3rd) with a great defence (2nd) but a poor attack (16th). Which is why you finished the regular season where you did.
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Hitouts are mostly worthless.... you can dominate them and lose the clearances.
I agree dogs are better off on your table with the hitout numbers included. We weren't top of the ladder at end of season, not expecting to be number one on this table either.
I like statistics and the analytic side of the game. I just disagree that these are the right statistics to discover midfield dominance.
 
ManOfClay said:
I wonder if Port fans realise Ryder isn't some elite ruckman.

Great player but not exactly a dominant ruck to build a team around
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Ryder out rucked Natanui in a few games for us, Out jumped and out bodied him, He's a good ruckman who can become a great one if he wanted it enough. All up to him, Now without the 3rd man up rule it'll help him even further.

No reason why Port fans shouldn't be excited seeing Paddy line up again.
 
Janus said:
Ok - last revision:

ba855b88b6ae6f7c04db20655e9c3d58.png


A couple of things:

1. Adelaide's soft **** defensive side of the ball is what cost them a flag in 2016. Too much front running, not enough hard nuts.

2. Conversely, it is Sydney's defence that puts them in at 2 overall. Defence wins games in the modern era.

3. The Bulldogs won the flag because their midfield is better than Sydney's. Both teams have a poor attack efficiency (relatively speaking) and are similar with defensive efficiency.

4. Geelong, West Coast and GWS are pretty balanced sides that, if all things were equal, would be fighting for top four again this year. But West Coast needed 1031 hitouts to generate 828 clearances...and they don't have the ruck support in 2017. Similarly, Geelong gathered 832 clearances from the highest amount of 3rd man up attempts in the competition. Will be interesting to see if both those sides can replicate what they did in 2016.

P.S Port will still be a top five midfield this year. :p
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Fair effort - but hit-outs to advantage are infinitely more important than just hit-outs which might adjust ratings slightly.

Even clearances can be misleading - Hawks won the 2015 premiership with a terrible clearance differential because they concentrated on quality clearances, which combined with their superior ball use made them the best team of the year.

An interesting comparison is our attack during the H&A series vs our attack during the finals series. We were almost a 3 goal better side during the finals even though it is clearly our weak point, something that with another year of development into Boyd, Crameri back and Cloke replacing Cordy down there should be a much stronger part of the ground for us.
 

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Mofra said:
Fair effort - but hit-outs to advantage are infinitely more important than just hit-outs which might adjust ratings slightly.

Even clearances can be misleading - Hawks won the 2015 premiership with a terrible clearance differential because they concentrated on quality clearances, which combined with their superior ball use made them the best team of the year.

An interesting comparison is our attack during the H&A series vs our attack during the finals series. We were almost a 3 goal better side during the finals even though it is clearly our weak point, something that with another year of development into Boyd, Crameri back and Cloke replacing Cordy down there should be a much stronger part of the ground for us.
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You went to another level in finals because finals are based on defence + midfield - the two things you excel at :)
 
HairyO said:
NicNat and Mumford are in the next tier. But the gap is huge. Neither are regular game winners.
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Surely you are taking the piss here? Nic's already won 3 games off his own boot, one was his second game of AFL against your mob, let alone the amount of times his hitouts have dominated clearances and allowed us to win games. Our most important player by far.

Agree Gawn and Goldstein are much better around the ground however Nic wasn't ranked in the top 5 AFL players last year for nothing...
 
Janus said:
Ours is an under-performing midfield, not a poor midfield. With Ryder back, it will easily be in the top 5.
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You seem to be placing a lot of responsibility on Ryder. I would agree he's an important inclusion for you this year but from my observations (and I watch nearly all Port and Crows games) a lot of your MF problems had nothing to do with the lack of a genuine ruck. Ports ball movement through the middle of the ground looked totally disorganized at times. If they don't address these issues then it won't matter who you have rucking the problem will still be there.
 
HairyO said:
That bloke from North Melbourne goes okay.

I wouldnt put NicNat in the same league as him and Gawn. Clearly the 2 best ruck weve seen in a long time.
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Really? I'd have Nic Nat above both, but only as a full performer around the ground. Based on being a natural ruck, I'd have the other two ahead.
 
adammania9 said:
Really? I'd have Nic Nat above both, but only as a full performer around the ground. Based on being a natural ruck, I'd have the other two ahead.
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Goldstein kicked 5 goals in that game against Melbourne where we saw Gawn's best game to date as well.

NicNat has never come close to that sort of impact. Ever.

bzparkes said:
Surely you are taking the piss here? Nic's already won 3 games off his own boot, one was his second game of AFL against your mob
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We had about 5 of our premiership players having a pre-season due to alcoholism and surgeries. I dont think anyone can point to beating us in 2009 as an indicator of anything more than we sucked that year.
 
Alwaysacrow said:
You seem to be placing a lot of responsibility on Ryder. I would agree he's an important inclusion for you this year but from my observations (and I watch nearly all Port and Crows games) a lot of your MF problems had nothing to do with the lack of a genuine ruck. Ports ball movement through the middle of the ground looked totally disorganized at times. If they don't address these issues then it won't matter who you have rucking the problem will still be there.
Click to expand...

That issue came from Hinkley and the coaching panel. They thought the game was going to slow down as it became more congested and contested. But what actually happened was the game stayed the same in terms of speed on the outside while becoming more congested and contested on the inside. They severely overrated the changes to the interchange cap and focused too heavily on endurance instead of power.

Buckley fell into the same trap with Collingwood, IMO.
 
HairyO said:
Goldstein kicked 5 goals in that game against Melbourne where we saw Gawn's best game to date as well.

NicNat has never come close to that sort of impact. Ever.



We had about 5 of our premiership players having a pre-season due to alcoholism and surgeries. I dont think anyone can point to beating us in 2009 as an indicator of anything more than we sucked that year.
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He's won two matches off his own boot in his career, very few other players can say they've done that. Big time player, gets ball, kicks goals, massive leap; he's the package.
 
Janus said:
Ok - last revision:

ba855b88b6ae6f7c04db20655e9c3d58.png


A couple of things:

1. Adelaide's soft **** defensive side of the ball is what cost them a flag in 2016. Too much front running, not enough hard nuts.

2. Conversely, it is Sydney's defence that puts them in at 2 overall. Defence wins games in the modern era.

3. The Bulldogs won the flag because their midfield is better than Sydney's. Both teams have a poor attack efficiency (relatively speaking) and are similar with defensive efficiency.

4. Geelong, West Coast and GWS are pretty balanced sides that, if all things were equal, would be fighting for top four again this year. But West Coast needed 1031 hitouts to generate 828 clearances...and they don't have the ruck support in 2017. Similarly, Geelong gathered 832 clearances from the highest amount of 3rd man up attempts in the competition. Will be interesting to see if both those sides can replicate what they did in 2016.

P.S Port will still be a top five midfield this year. :p
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There is no way Adelaide have the best midfield. There are at least a few side better & we are the next rung down imo.

How do we have a soft defence? Talia, Lever, Hartigan, Laird, Brown & Cheney are hardly soft players.

Only agree that we are #1 in the forward line, but you only need to look at out goal scoring to work that out.
 

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