List Mgmt. 2017 Trade/Draft/FA SuperMegaUltra Thread - Post Trade-Period Edition

[Big Cox 88]

I think Allen is a good choice at 13. It is harder to nail a decent player of his size (medium to tall forward with good hands and game sense) in the second round. It is easier to pick up a good, serviceable and possible gun mid in the second round and with our plethora of second round picks we should be able to nail a couple.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Interested on your thoughts on the two in bold. I'll be the first to admit that I don't see them live as I'm half a world away these days. it's very hard for me to cast judgements from here. However, I can't see anything about Moore that stands out as a midfield prospect. His draft profile appears very masten like in that he's not very big or contested or particularly quick but has great endurance. Am I missing something? Do you rate him higher than spargo, petruccelle and walker? Also how would you compare Ballard with houlahan or do you expect Ballard to be way out of our reach? (I guess most would expect this)

If we have Allen - I would pass on Ballard not based on rating but on needs. Ballard is 195 cm and has played wing and 3rd tall. Houlahan is only 186 cm and more an outside mid come half forward. Both are likely to be around at our picks in the 20’s - Ballard is rising though. Houlahan with 26 or 32 would be a good option if we have Constable and Clarke already and a few small forwards still on the board. He has very classy skills and would be excellent on a wing delivering to our leading forwards. Not soft and can win his own ball

Dylan Moore I really like. He wll run all day and applies defensive pressure. Monocle did a post on him with the mock so have a read on him page 13. Small but tough and reads the ball off a contest very well. Sharp front and centre and good at converting opportunities. He will do a rotation in the midfield but not fast - hence care needed on pairings. There are a number of small that are good. I personally like Spargo but both he and Moore are good.

 

[dajesmac]

I hope we are looking closely at Ethan Floyd with pick 37.

 

[dajesmac]

If we have Allen - I would pass on Ballard not based on rating but on needs. Ballard is 195 cm and has played wing and 3rd tall. Houlahan is only 186 cm and more an outside mid come half forward. Both are likely to be around at our picks in the 20’s - Ballard is rising though. Houlahan with 26 or 32 would be a good option if we have Constable and Clarke already and a few small forwards still on the board. He has very classy skills and would be excellent on a wing delivering to our leading forwards. Not soft and can win his own ball

Houlahan has been linked with the Swans at 14 interestingly so he may not even be available to us.

 

[Bacchus]

Imi

My point was the difference between the contested ability of L Fogarty and obrien is big. It's like trying to compare the contested ability of a gaff vs a shuey. I'm not comparing shuey with Fogarty in terms of weight

My point is that Fogarty's contested game may not translate to the higher level because of his weight ie it may no longer exist because he is too small like Masten.

 

[liam123]

Imi

My point is that Fogarty's contested game may not translate to the higher level because of his weight ie it may no longer exist because he is too small like Masten.

Fair enough. I don't think you have to be as heavy as shuey to contest Well for the ball though. Look at Daniel Kerr he was only 80kg. Even Caleb Daniel shows it's not about size. In the words of Adam Simpson it's more about intent. Fogarty definitely looks like he's happy to throw his body around. I guess we just disagree

 

[Patron]

I disagree with you there. Plus, Coffield wants to be a defender which isn't a great start for developing into an AFL mid.

Not disputing your opinion but on what grounds do you make this assumption?
Allen hasn't really played any midfield time to date, none through the champs etc. Whereas Coffield has been a true utility, it's just his best football this year was off HBF and that's due to his current skill set of height, marking, skills and pace. Many now midfielders with similar attributes spent time on the HBF in their youth as they bulked up/developed such as pendles, hodge, mundy and Kelly. I do liken coffield to pendlebury a bit.

Given Coffield has undoubtedly shown more as a midfielder to date than Allen what makes you think allen will end up the mid? I think coffield is naturally better through traffic/more evasive etc. and has the midfield runs on the board.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

My understanding is that Allen has played through the midfield at Colts level, no?

 

[dajesmac]

Not disputing your opinion but on what grounds do you make this assumption?
Allen hasn't really played any midfield time to date, none through the champs etc. Whereas Coffield has been a true utility, it's just his best football this year was off HBF and that's due to his current skill set of height, marking, skills and pace. Many now midfielders with similar attributes spent time on the HBF in their youth as they bulked up/developed such as pendles, hodge, mundy and Kelly. I do liken coffield to pendlebury a bit.

Given Coffield has undoubtedly shown more as a midfielder to date than Allen what makes you think allen will end up the mid? I think coffield is naturally better through traffic/more evasive etc. and has the midfield runs on the board.

I read a quote of him saying he felt more comfortable playing in the backline despite having spent time in the middle. I agree if Coffield made the transition he could be a pretty high level mid given his class, but I'm just not sure he will get there in terms of his contested game etc. Strikes me as one of those players that plays better behind the ball.

As for Allen - I'm not so much talking up his midfield game I just see as much, if not more, midfield potential than Coffield. It's a small sample size but the fact that he won 16 contested possessions in a game playing solely as an inside mid is a good sign. That being said, the most likely scenario IMO is that neither actually become AFL mids.

 

[dajesmac]

My understanding is that Allen has played through the midfield at Colts level, no?

Yes, a bit, to a reasonable level, but the sample size is relatively small.

In his last two games at Colts level, he amassed 27 and 28 possessions, and had ten tackles in the latter of the two games. He also had a 25 possession game earlier in the year (it remains to be seen whether that was actually as an inside mid though).

Allen was then promoted to reserves and then league level in which he played more as a true forward, presumably because playing as a league mid was probably a bit too big of an ask.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

13 Clark/Higgins/Bonar/Allen/Brander
21 Worpel/Bailey
26 Kelly*
32 Miers/Moore
37 Ballard/Starcevich

*Not that I'd personally want to take him at that pick, prefer to pick him at 32 or 37, but it seems likely(?) that we might take him there before someone else picks him.
If we end up with Higgins instead of Clark at 13, I'd definitely take Worpel instead of Bailey at 21. If Clark, Higgins and Bonar are gone, I'd go with the next "best available", possibly Allen or Brander. Listed 5 players at pick 13, since it's a bit difficult to predict who will actually be available there.

 

[Milenko]

I think i'm OK with Allen IF Clark and Higgins are both off the board by our pick AND we grab Worpel and Kelly within the next 3 picks.

 

[mattyc75]

13 Clark/Higgins/Bonar/Allen/Brander
21 Worpel/Bailey
26 Kelly*
32 Miers/Moore
37 Ballard/Starcevich

*Not that I'd personally want to take him at that pick, prefer to pick him at 32 or 37, but it seems likely(?) that we might take him there before someone else picks him.
If we end up with Higgins instead of Clark at 13, I'd definitely take Worpel instead of Bailey at 21. If Clark, Higgins and Bonar are gone, I'd go with the next "best available", possibly Allen or Brander. Listed 5 players at pick 13, since it's a bit difficult to predict who will actually be available there.

I think ballard is rising up the boards if we really want him going to have to earlier.not sure why but worpel seems to be going later.maybe swap them 2 around

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[tigger_ferret]

If we draft Allen and he replaces Lecras in the team round 1, would anyone be disappointed??

I’m not saying they have the same skill set, but I could see them being asked to play similar roles. I could also see more defensive pressure and less selfish play from Allen

 

[Dark Sharks]

I'm trying to get used to the idea, but i just can't shake the feeling that WCE will balls up the picking of Allen completely.

He LOOKS and plays like a tall forward. His skills are very good i've noticed, both by hand and foot, but there really isn't anything about the way he plays to suggest he could possibly become a midfielder at AFL level. Not explosive or mobile enough, nothing to suggest he'd be good in traffic. He lumbers around like all talls do.

So where does that leave us? We'd be recruiting him to likely end up being a 3rd banana to Darling and Kennedy. Our forward line would have to have a bit of a shake up to accommodate a 3rd tall forward. If that's the case Waterman and M.Allen might as well pack their bags right now like Lamb because they won't be getting many opportunities.

 

[Milenko]

I'm trying to get used to the idea, but i just can't shake the feeling that WCE will balls up the picking of Allen completely.

He LOOKS and plays like a tall forward. His skills are very good i've noticed, both by hand and foot, but there really isn't anything about the way he plays to suggest he could possibly become a midfielder at AFL level. Not explosive or mobile enough, nothing to suggest he'd be good in traffic. He lumbers around like all talls do.

So where does that leave us? We'd be recruiting him to likely end up being a 3rd banana to Darling and Kennedy. Our forward line would have to have a bit of a shake up to accommodate a 3rd tall forward. If that's the case Waterman and M.Allen might as well pack their bags right now like Lamb because they won't be getting many opportunities.

Draft Allen, trade Darling next year --> PROFIT.

 

[ArdentEagle]

It might be incorrect but WAFL site says he's 193cm.

http://www.wafl.com.au/players/view/6236

191.1cm, 82.35kg - National Combine measurements

 

[Suma Magic]

I'm trying to get used to the idea, but i just can't shake the feeling that WCE will balls up the picking of Allen completely.

He LOOKS and plays like a tall forward. His skills are very good i've noticed, both by hand and foot, but there really isn't anything about the way he plays to suggest he could possibly become a midfielder at AFL level. Not explosive or mobile enough, nothing to suggest he'd be good in traffic. He lumbers around like all talls do.

So where does that leave us? We'd be recruiting him to likely end up being a 3rd banana to Darling and Kennedy. Our forward line would have to have a bit of a shake up to accommodate a 3rd tall forward. If that's the case Waterman and M.Allen might as well pack their bags right now like Lamb because they won't be getting many opportunities.

Allen would only spend ~3 years on the list with Kennedy. I'd guess we would he thinking more about his role in the post-Kennedy world.

 

[Abed]

Allen would only spend ~3 years on the list with Kennedy. I'd guess we would he thinking more about his role in the post-Kennedy world.

This. He's only 3cm shorter than Kennedy, with a wingspan bigger than his height suggests. Mobile and can take a grab. Good kick for goal. Ideal Kennedy replacement.

 

[tigger_ferret]

I'm trying to get used to the idea, but i just can't shake the feeling that WCE will balls up the picking of Allen completely.

He LOOKS and plays like a tall forward. His skills are very good i've noticed, both by hand and foot, but there really isn't anything about the way he plays to suggest he could possibly become a midfielder at AFL level. Not explosive or mobile enough, nothing to suggest he'd be good in traffic. He lumbers around like all talls do.

So where does that leave us? We'd be recruiting him to likely end up being a 3rd banana to Darling and Kennedy. Our forward line would have to have a bit of a shake up to accommodate a 3rd tall forward. If that's the case Waterman and M.Allen might as well pack their bags right now like Lamb because they won't be getting many opportunities.

I don’t disagree with you, but everyone creaming their pants about Waterman and M Allen, seam to forget they were drafted 77 and 62. Both have shown a little but there is no guarantee they will be good players (no guarantee on O Allen either)

O Allen is a risky pick and would be more BPA (debatable) than a need. If we do draft him I’ll be cheering my arse of hoping he becomes awesome regardless.

 

[avishka5]

I'm not going to suggest that Allen is a gun key forward in the making, but what I think is that we all get way too hung up on numbers when context is much more important.

For instance is the difference between Matthew Pavlich/Jarryd Roughead/Nick Riewoldt and Jack Darling as marking forwards really the 1-2cm that separates them or the fact that they are/were smart footballers who actually used their strength to create space before the ball arrives?

And do we have any indication that these measurements are standardised between clubs? Are they measured in boots or barefoot? Are they measured in the morning (when people are at their tallest) or in the afternoon (shortest)? Making a meaningful distinction between 191cm and 193cm without knowing is pointless.

And to play devil's advocate for Allen for a moment: if he does have a significant reach advantage (as he and others have suggested) then the point is moot anyway, because the significance of height in football is the ability to reach the ball, not to have the top of your head higher than your opponent (otherwise known as the Tom Swift conundrum).

You make some great point about players reach and I do find the reach of a player important but at the same point I don't agree with some of you player comparisons tbh. Imo the game is evolving in a way that it seems like current trend is that kpp players these days are as talls as ruckmen but possess the ability and nobility of players shorter than them. Blokes like daniher , t. Lynch, b.brown, Dixon, Patton, Hopwood, P. Wright are some of them that are leading the way these days. Even guys like jk, buddy as Hawkins aren't that much far away from them in terms of height.

That's why I think the bloke you have named are bit irrelevant tbh, pav and too are players from the previous areas and both played hff/wing roles later in their careers.

That's why I just can't see a 190cm odd kpf going to be your main focal point up forward.

 

[avishka5]

How tall were Fevola and Dunstal?

Those two have been retired from a decade and two decades respectively. It's irrelevant. These days we have mids that tower them but have the amazing ability and mobility.

 

[ArdentEagle]

If we have Allen - I would pass on Ballard not based on rating but on needs. Ballard is 195 cm and has played wing and 3rd tall. Houlahan is only 186 cm and more an outside mid come half forward. Both are likely to be around at our picks in the 20’s - Ballard is rising though. Houlahan with 26 or 32 would be a good option if we have Constable and Clarke already and a few small forwards still on the board. He has very classy skills and would be excellent on a wing delivering to our leading forwards. Not soft and can win his own ball

Dylan Moore I really like. He wll run all day and applies defensive pressure. Monocle did a post on him with the mock so have a read on him page 13. Small but tough and reads the ball off a contest very well. Sharp front and centre and good at converting opportunities. He will do a rotation in the midfield but not fast - hence care needed on pairings. There are a number of small that are good. I personally like Spargo but both he and Moore are good.

We could still pick Allen and Ballard I would have thought.
The wing is the obvious spot for him but maybe he would become that big inside/out mid we've been crying out for.
Yes light at the moment (still 82kgs) but I can't help and think back to Fyfe in his draft year.

Worst case scenario, he ends up a tall wingman in the style of Westhoff/Embley, best case scenario...

 

[bl4ke]

Bishop thinks we are heavily into Balta for a pick in the 20's.

 

[Patron]

I read a quote of him saying he felt more comfortable playing in the backline despite having spent time in the middle. I agree if Coffield made the transition he could be a pretty high level mid given his class, but I'm just not sure he will get there in terms of his contested game etc. Strikes me as one of those players that plays better behind the ball.

As for Allen - I'm not so much talking up his midfield game I just see as much, if not more, midfield potential than Coffield. It's a small sample size but the fact that he won 16 contested possessions in a game playing solely as an inside mid is a good sign. That being said, the most likely scenario IMO is that neither actually become AFL mids.

Okay I do understand that and agree I don’t think either of their best positions at afl level will be on ball.


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