List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & Free Agency Discussion thread II

[Le Grille]

This years premiership was won by a side that contained only two genuine A-Graders.

But they were genuine A-Graders.

A top 3 of Martin/Cotchin (in the finals series anyway) and Rance is something that at this stage I can see us replicating.

 

[Star]

Franklin could remain with Port if the club cannot work a deal with the Dockers.

Tony Sheahan @TonySheahan

Franklin could remain with Port if the club cannot work a deal with the Dockers.

 

[GreatBradScott]

Sounds like you missed the 70s and 90s. We were far from mediocre. Team of the 90s off a low membership/support base.

Unfortunately in my mid 20's, so only caught the tail end of 98, 99 and 2000 (we were still good). And even then it's hazy.

 

[KickItAnywhere34]

My concern is that out of that list of debutantes only Simpkin appears to be a true A-Grader, they are all solid however.

Over the next few years (1-6 in other words the time that these players will reach their ceiling) we will lose, Goldy, Thompson, Swallow, Thomas, Higgins, Zeibell, Cunnington, Tarrant all of which at times have been influential for us. Again the players in the deb list will cover some of that and we have a good opportunity with pick4 plus next year potential FS but I feel we need to augment that with more high picks in this draft. That is where my concern is at.

Simpkin EVW Mountford Pruess Neilsen Josh Williams add Ahern who we haven't seen. Add a Stephenson/Dow and a pick at 23 - how many do you want to add when you also have in the under 23 group - M Williams Hrovat McDonald Clarke Dumont McKay Durdin Garner Turner Wood. I think you are underselling the talent in the under 23's. And I havent even mentioned Browny or the others in the 24 to 27 group. High picks are no guarantee of anything just ask Melbourne. Your whole argument about getting more picks means we have to give something of value up and thats not going to be a net gain for us. Be happy with the picks we have for the next 2 years as we have a chance to pick up some elite talent both this year (picks 4 and 23) and next year with potential FS and academy picks.

 

[KickItAnywhere34]

This years premiership was won by a side that contained only two genuine A-Graders.

Bang!

 

[Le Grille]

Next year, we've got to hit FA hard. Once the AFL world sees that our youth is actually pretty damn decent, FA's would be more attracted to the club.

Disagree, our youth has provided us with a good strong core and should develop into a solid basis for an even list, we need to augment that with more draft picks. Whether it's aiming to get into the 2nd/3rd round or upgrading our existing picks to give us a better chance of unearthing a true game breaker.

Yes richmond had only a small amount of game breakers but they actually had them. In the big games you need one or two players that could put the team on their back and lead them to win. That's what we missed in 2014 and more so in 2015.

In short try to get into the draft and only mess with FA if it has a longer term benefit.

 

[Rooboy 96]

How would you acquire that pick?

doesn't Paddy Dangerfield have a twin someone can pull out of their arse? surely we can trade him?

 

[Roos4eva]

Unfortunately in my mid 20's, so only caught the tail end of 98, 99 and 2000 (we were still good). And even then it's hazy.

I'm in my late twenties and started supporting North in 1998, what a way to start, and thankfully I can remember 1999 well. For some reason, 1998 wasn't quite as memorable but we'll just leave it at that.

Sigh, we're starting to become like Liverpool - yearning for the past.

 

[Jindrrk]

Two Phones: (yeah, yeah, I know)

Mmm shit....figuratively MrJocks said Lang to Carlton and No Scoop Maclure says North......both cancel each other out.

 

[Flawed Genius]

This years premiership was won by a side that contained only two genuine A-Graders.

It helped that one of them had statistically one of the greatest seasons in the history of the game.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Disagree, our youth has provided us with a good strong core and should develop into a solid basis for an even list, we need to augment that with more draft picks. Whether it's aiming to get into the 2nd/3rd round or upgrading our existing picks to give us a better chance of unearthing a true game breaker.

Yes richmond had only a small amount of game breakers but they actually had them. In the big games you need one or two players that could put the team on their back and lead them to win. That's what we missed in 2014 and more so in 2015.

In short try to get into the draft and only mess with FA if it has a longer term benefit.

We've got bugger all currency to deal with to trade up. It's all well and good to get annoyed at North for not trading up higher picks for elite talent, but we have nothing to work with ATM. This could change after a season as some youth show how good they really are and clubs will start chasing them and offer overs to get a few of them. Outside trading aged veterans, who's current stock price is low due to their age, we have little choice but to give it a year and get the picks we need for academy and father-sons.

 

[GreatBradScott]

I'm in my late twenties and started supporting North in 1998, what a way to start, and thankfully I can remember 1999 well. For some reason, 1998 wasn't quite as memorable but we'll just leave it at that.

Sigh, we're starting to become like Liverpool - yearning for the past.

I don't think anyone here is that delusional haha, settle.

 

[KickItAnywhere34]

Disagree, our youth has provided us with a good strong core and should develop into a solid basis for an even list, we need to augment that with more draft picks. Whether it's aiming to get into the 2nd/3rd round or upgrading our existing picks to give us a better chance of unearthing a true game breaker.

Yes richmond had only a small amount of game breakers but they actually had them. In the big games you need one or two players that could put the team on their back and lead them to win. That's what we missed in 2014 and more so in 2015.

In short try to get into the draft and only mess with FA if it has a longer term benefit.

We ARE in the draft with 4 and 23 - and we wont trade picks next year either. Not sure how we are going to get any more picks. We don't have anything of value and to trade good players just for another lower draft pick makes no sense. You've heard the strategy - its hit the draft for 3 years and ONLY look at FA if they fit the age profile and ARE mids. Joyce said it himself we are not bringing in payers just for the sake of it. But by all means keep harping on about the SAME thing all the time.........yawn....yawn...

 

[KickItAnywhere34]

We've got bugger all currency to deal with to trade up. It's all well and good to get annoyed at North for not trading up higher picks for elite talent, but we have nothing to work with ATM. This could change after a season as some youth show how good they really are and clubs will start chasing them and offer overs to get a few of them. Outside trading aged veterans, who's current stock price is low due to their age, we have little choice but to give it a year and get the picks we need for academy and father-sons.

Le Grille - this

 

[Rooboy 96]

That's beside the point. Picks 4 and 23 isn't enough for a rebuild!!!!!!

seriously Thewlis, change your name to Mr Doom and Gloom, none of our players are worth a packet of twisties and we can't rebuild with the picks we have.

 

[Moti]

I just want to see a change in the coaching philosophy, changing the centre square setup and sticking to it will probably be a big step forward.

 

[Le Grille]

Simpkin EVW Mountford Pruess Neilsen Josh Williams add Ahern who we haven't seen. Add a Stephenson/Dow and a pick at 23 - how many do you want to add when you also have in the under 23 group - M Williams Hrovat McDonald Clarke Dumont McKay Durdin Garner Turner Wood. I think you are underselling the talent in the under 23's. And I havent even mentioned Browny or the others in the 24 to 27 group. High picks are no guarantee of anything just ask Melbourne. Your whole argument about getting more picks means we have to give something of value up and thats not going to be a net gain for us. Be happy with the picks we have for the next 2 years as we have a chance to pick up some elite talent both this year (picks 4 and 23) and next year with potential FS and academy picks.

Im not saying that that list of players is a poor one, but whilst talented I see them being essentially a replica of what we had circa 2014/15 good to very good but not quite enough to get over the top for a flag.

Like I said above our goal should be to try to upgrade picks in this and next draft to augment that solid core. I think carrying all three of daw/goldy/pruess is foolish and if we can use one to get into a better drafting position whether we get into the higher rounds or upgrade something then we should look into it.

I still think we have enough experience to guide the young guys so I don't see it as a melbourne situation.

Bang!

Bang what?, those two elite players were able to take a game by the scruff of the throat and seemingly win a game off their own boot. Even if Simpkin turns into an A grader do you see any current players as being able to do what Martin does. It was what stopped us taking the next step in our previous tilt and may just stop us again.

 

[TheBuzz]

I heard we can get a sack of potatoes for only a 2nd rounder.

Make it happen Euge!

 

[jclei]

The problem with our ability to trade for better picks this off season is the absolute stark drop in performance of our better older players and therefore their worth on the open market.

We probably have 2 players with 1st round currency in Cunners and Brown and thats really it. We could not possible even consider trading them for obvious reasons

Goldstein has absolutely ruined any trade value we thought we might have for him at this point
LT used to be a top 3 small forward in the league but is now a VFL player who gets suspended every 3 weeks
Hansen could have been worth something now given hes only 28 but gets delisted
Swallow is still only approaching 30 but its looking like even GC might not be that interested and if they are it will be for scraps and we will likely pay his salary.
Gibson also gets delisted after 130 strong games

At this point in our new rebuild its guys like the above 5 that other clubs would trade off and pick up first round or early second round picks. Ours are almost (and in some cases are) throw-aways.

We have a lot of under 23's and so in that sense its exciting to see what we will do next year. I am still pretty concerned though that hardly any of them could pick up a rising star nomination outside of Clarke. I know its a flawed system but still it would have been nice and given a bit more excitement about things to come

 

[Snake_Baker]

I just want to see a change in the coaching philosophy, changing the centre square setup and sticking to it will probably be a big step forward.

The list manager is effectively running our club for the next 14 months.

My guess is that the coach will promote more proactive football (with the errors that come with it)

Post 2018 the focus will shift to defensive play.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It helped that one of them had statistically one of the greatest seasons in the history of the game.

I get that, but we're not as far back as I am sensing some believe.

Talk of 3 year rebuilds is over the top.

The rebuild will be finished in 13 months time.

We trade from there on.

 

[tiltraise]

What would the Saints offer for #4 + Tarrant?

They are on record saying they want a KPD and to push up the draft order.

7 + 8 + 2018 1R?

 

[GreatBradScott]

seriously Thewlis, change your name to Mr Doom and Gloom, none of our players are worth a packet of twisties and we can't rebuild with the picks we have.

4 and 23 is not enough. We need more. You specifically were talking about taking 'once in a generation' players early next year yesterday.

 

[Jindrrk]

Since I've only been around for a year.....when do the Game Day only posters come in....or are some have started to?

I've wanted to improve 21 (now 23) as my goal and perhaps pick up some value pick players later. May still happen. I am happy.

People melting unnecessarily under unrealistic goals it seems.

 

[Le Grille]

We ARE in the draft with 4 and 23 - and we wont trade picks next year either. Not sure how we are going to get any more picks. We don't have anything of value and to trade good players just for another lower draft pick makes no sense. You've heard the strategy - its hit the draft for 3 years and ONLY look at FA if they fit the age profile and ARE mids. Joyce said it himself we are not bringing in payers just for the sake of it. But by all means keep harping on about the SAME thing all the time.........yawn....yawn...

Le Grille - this

Of our list I would see to different degrees the following players as tradeable, some may not be worth a lot and most I would prefer to keep

Goldy
Wood
Dumont-
Durdin-
Clarke

Probably not worth the effort
Daw
Atley-

Actually this list probably tells us a lot about the drafting and development on our list we have jettisoned 1800 games of experience and have only the compo pick for wells to show for it, plus never got close to a flag. The fact is we need to be creative and find a way to be able to keep an open mind and consider more non conventional deals.