2018 AFL Crowds & Ratings thread

[Fletched]

I think you will find that they count the free tickets given out to schools for Giants games. That's not to say that them kids turn up.

Rubbish the crowds are counted from what is scanned at the turnstiles period

 

[dave10]

This round just missed the top 10 ever by around 4k, coming in at 13th spot.

So will the 6 millionth fan be one of the last through the gates on Friday night at Essendon/St Kilda or one of the first there for Hawthorn/Geelong?

There’s no way Essendon V St Kilda will draw 42,000 this Friday.. Had Essendon won yesterday there’s a small chance but the balloon was burst yesterday and the season is now all over.. Essendon people are flat and I don’t think there will be a great deal of excitement about a dead rubber against an awful Saints to get any more than the rusted on fans from each club going to Ethihad this Friday..

I know some may argue Essendon have been going well and they have. But the year ended yesterday and I think this will be reflected in the crowd this week. Call the supporters soft but it is what it is and Friday’s match is not enticing at all.

The Saints won’t bring more than 4-5,000 fans. 32-34,000. I reckon I will be pretty close!

 

[Rob]

Why on earth would the AFL schedule the GWS V Crows game at night in Canberra during winter? Could be below zero conditions.

The AFL don't exactly have a great record in knowing the weather outside Melbourne. Scheduling the Cairns game in round 1 in monsoon season as an example.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

There’s no way Essendon V St Kilda will draw 42,000 this Friday.. Had Essendon won yesterday there’s a small chance but the balloon was burst yesterday and the season is now all over.. Essendon people are flat and I don’t think there will be a great deal of excitement about a dead rubber against an awful Saints to get any more than the rusted on fans from each club going to Ethihad this Friday..

I know some may argue Essendon have been going well and they have. But the year ended yesterday and I think this will be reflected in the crowd this week. Call the supporters soft but it is what it is and Friday’s match is not enticing at all.

The Saints won’t bring more than 4-5,000 fans. 32-34,000. I reckon I will be pretty close!

Agree with that.

The last time the Bombers got 40K or more against the Saints as the home team was back in 2009.

 

[BobbyMorri]

So you are saying the Royal Agricultural Society of NSW as ground managers are in collusion with the Giants/AFL to lie about the Giants crowds?.

I don't think any AFL clubs solely owns their own ticketing system or stadium. GWS are not special in that regard.

The Giants are the "client". They would have some influence. They pay money to these companies to sell tickets or hire the ground after all. But there could be a lot of "influencers "and unless you work directly with the system or companies involved, then you will never know which one is directly involved. As wookie says, it is purely subjective.

 

[The_Wookie]

The AFL don't exactly have a great record in knowing the weather outside Melbourne. Scheduling the Cairns game in round 1 in monsoon season as an example.

Makes you wonder if weather patterns are part of the fixturing program they use.

Might prove a little diffucult to front load all the Tasmania/Ballarat/Cairns/NT games in the front half of the season before the weather turns.

 

[legend166]

For what it's worth in the early days of the Swans playing at Stadium Australia, they'd be given the crowd figure and had the option of pushing it up a bit before release if they wanted.

Source: Person I know did work experience with the Swans.

 

[Rob]

Makes you wonder if weather patterns are part of the fixturing program they use.

Might prove a little diffucult to front load all the Tasmania/Ballarat/Cairns/NT games in the front half of the season before the weather turns.

Depends on the situation. But it's pretty easy to avoid in most cases. No games in Darwin and Cairns until May as an example - it's hardly overly restrictive. Not playing at night after May in Tassie/Ballarat/Canberra seems pretty sensible as well. It's tough to avoid scheduling games for the entire 2nd half of the season at venues that host multiple games, but you can at least avoid night games there.

 

[precarious]

I have queried them from photos and television shots, as well as gate/member revenues. Its purely subjective in the absence of hard data.

FWIW, after seeing this topic raised again last week, I sat down and counted every seat in nearly every public section on the ticketmaster map to try to get a better idea of how to guesstimate at the stadium. (Yes, I need a life ...) For the public areas, I have an exact count (assuming no error) of all but the designated standing area and a couple of bays (which are grayed out).

I couldn't count the corporate areas, as they are grayed out on the map.

On the basis of this exercise and previous attempts to guesstimate when at the stadium, I am inclined to accept the attendance figures. It's hard to know for sure because there are always people standing or in bars and kids in play areas and so on.

Anyway,I intend to use the information to assist in attempting somewhat more methodical guesstimates in future.

Some casual observations:

The lower level accounts for 66.82 percent of the counted seats. The stands account for 33.18 percent. (This excludes uncounted seats on the lower level and corporate capacities in the stands.)

The large Cumberland Stand that is often highly visible on TV accounts for 12.3 percent of seats.

To my knowledge, Sydney print journalists, while explicitly asserting from time to time that Sydney NRL crowd figures are being inflated (mostly recently, Andrew Webster), have made no such assertion about AFL crowds. Given the hostility toward AFL from some sections of the media up here, I would expect them to be all over any fudging at the first opportunity.

It would be idiotic to overstate the numbers in a hostile market. Whether an attendance is 10k or 6k (or whatever), it is an embarrassing figure. Lying about it would be stupid for at least two reasons. First, if it came out, it would give the haters a free kick. Second, it makes it harder to show actual growth in attendances if they are inflated in the early years.

 

[Our Game]

To my knowledge, Sydney print journalists, while explicitly asserting from time to time that Sydney NRL crowd figures are being inflated (mostly recently, Andrew Webster), have made no such assertion about AFL crowds. Given the hostility toward AFL from some sections of the media up here, I would expect them to be all over any fudging at the first opportunity.

It would be idiotic to overstate the numbers in a hostile market. Whether an attendance is 10k or 6k (or whatever), it is an embarrassing figure. Lying about it would be stupid for at least two reasons. First, if it came out, it would give the haters a free kick. Second, it makes it harder to show actual growth in attendances if they are inflated in the early years.

Thanks for that Your summary it is what I expected to be 100% correct and dont forget the biggest crowd so far at Spotless is only 21,924 with a full capacity of 24,000 so a half full ground is only around 11-12,000
There is no valid reason for the AFL to lie about the crowds at GWS matches same goes for Swans matches at the SCG.

 

[NoobPie]

FWIW, after seeing this topic raised again last week, I sat down and counted every seat in nearly every public section on the ticketmaster map to try to get a better idea of how to guesstimate at the stadium. (Yes, I need a life ...) For the public areas, I have an exact count (assuming no error) of all but the designated standing area and a couple of bays (which are grayed out).

I couldn't count the corporate areas, as they are grayed out on the map.

On the basis of this exercise and previous attempts to guesstimate when at the stadium, I am inclined to accept the attendance figures. It's hard to know for sure because there are always people standing or in bars and kids in play areas and so on.

Anyway,I intend to use the information to assist in attempting somewhat more methodical guesstimates in future.

Some casual observations:

The lower level accounts for 66.82 percent of the counted seats. The stands account for 33.18 percent. (This excludes uncounted seats on the lower level and corporate capacities in the stands.)

The large Cumberland Stand that is often highly visible on TV accounts for 12.3 percent of seats.

To my knowledge, Sydney print journalists, while explicitly asserting from time to time that Sydney NRL crowd figures are being inflated (mostly recently, Andrew Webster), have made no such assertion about AFL crowds. Given the hostility toward AFL from some sections of the media up here, I would expect them to be all over any fudging at the first opportunity.

It would be idiotic to overstate the numbers in a hostile market. Whether an attendance is 10k or 6k (or whatever), it is an embarrassing figure. Lying about it would be stupid for at least two reasons. First, if it came out, it would give the haters a free kick. Second, it makes it harder to show actual growth in attendances if they are inflated in the early years.

Great, well reasoned, comment

 

[BobbyMorri]

To my knowledge, Sydney print journalists, while explicitly asserting from time to time that Sydney NRL crowd figures are being inflated (mostly recently, Andrew Webster), have made no such assertion about AFL crowds. Given the hostility toward AFL from some sections of the media up here, I would expect them to be all over any fudging at the first opportunity.

It would be idiotic to overstate the numbers in a hostile market. Whether an attendance is 10k or 6k (or whatever), it is an embarrassing figure. Lying about it would be stupid for at least two reasons. First, if it came out, it would give the haters a free kick. Second, it makes it harder to show actual growth in attendances if they are inflated in the early years.

so??

I don't think they care. They care about the sport they follow. And If you going to "attack" the AFL, using crowds would be a stupid reason as well.

On your estimates, you have to be careful judging tickets/capacity on just the public sale. As you said, there are bays which would not be opened. As well as that, there would be areas which would be reserved for members or prize winners/family members or just a general hold for example.

There is no valid reason for the AFL to lie about the crowds at GWS matches same goes for Swans matches at the SCG.

10,000 looks a lot bigger and better than 9,000 to sponsors or even the general public.

I am not saying they do fudge btw. I dont know.

But the AFL is not a golden child.

 

[Rezza Tiger]

Tigers first to crack the million this year thought we would have got there a bit earlier when I first saw the fixture but a good achievement never the less. Looks like we're gonna end the season with 3 dead rubbers which will flatten out our average a bit. Will probably end up something like this:

Current total: 1.043m

Gold Coast 10K
Essendon 60K
Bulldogs 55K

H&A Total 1.168M

 

[Rabman]

Adelaide Oval Crowd Comparisons 2017 V 2018
2017:
19 matches Total Attendance: 809,358 Average 42,598

Adelaide: Total Attendance: 461,685 Average 46,169 (Ladder Position at round 20: 1st)

Port Power: Total Attendance: 347,673 Average 38,630 (Ladder Position at round 20: 5th)

2018:
19 matches Total Attendance: 806,941 Average 42,471

Adelaide: Total Attendance: 458,145 Average 45,815 (Ladder Position at round 20: 12th) Decrease of 3,540

Port Power: Total Attendance: 348,796 Average 38,755 (Ladder Position at round 20: 7th) Increase of 1,123

Minor decrease of 2,417 which is very strong considering the fall of Adelaide this season. Total attendance for the home and away season last year finished at 932,645 average of 42,393 per game. Port play West Coast and Essendon in the last 2 games with Adelaide playing North Melbourne on Sunday Twilight. Last 3 games need to total 125,704 to equal last years number at an average of 41,901 per game.

 

[jatz14]

Outside of Giants fans a majority of people think the Giants crowds are fudged by up to a third or even half.

FFT soccer fans think all AFL crowds are fudged up, and point at how empty that section looked, and, who do they think they are kidding, there was no way there was that many there. It is a mirror image of how AFL fans react to Giants numbers, and as credible.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[precarious]

On your estimates, you have to be careful judging tickets/capacity on just the public sale. As you said, there are bays which would not be opened. As well as that, there would be areas which would be reserved for members or prize winners/family members or just a general hold for example.

I have an exact count on every section, including members areas, (by row if you want them ...), barring a couple of sections that appear to account for roughly 730 seats. My numbers are verifiable by clicking on the ticketmaster map for GWS Giants v Sydney Swans, round 22 and moving round on the map.

Level 1 Seats Counted: 14,223
Level 1 Seats Grayed Out: rough estimate 730
Level 1 Standing Room Area: extends behind an area roughly 208 seats long

Stand Seats Counted: 7,061, which includes:
-- Cumberland 2,619
-- Martin & Angus 848
-- Sinclair 846
-- Vincent Fairfax 1,049
-- Suttor 850
-- Members 849

It is the corporate areas that are not counted.

so??

I don't think they care. They care about the sport they follow. And If you going to "attack" the AFL, using crowds would be a stupid reason as well.

I'm pretty sure the NRL and NRL media care about crowd comparisons. If they didn't, why (according to Andrew Webster, this time round) would the NRL be inflating them and the NRL media care enough to report it?

IMO, if they had anything negative on the AFL crowds, we'd know about it and not hear the end of it for quite some time. Instead, NRL people so inclined are reduced to slinking round twitter and internet forums insinuating and trolling, because evidently they've got nothing.

 

[Our Game]

Level 1 Seats Counted: 14,223
Level 1 Seats Grayed Out: rough estimate 730
Level 1 Standing Room Area: extends behind an area roughly 208 seats long

Stand Seats Counted: 7,061, which includes:
-- Cumberland 2,619
-- Martin & Angus 848
-- Sinclair 846
-- Vincent Fairfax 1,049
-- Suttor 850
-- Members 849

So your total is 21,284 that leaves 2714 to get to the official capacity of 24,000 Maybe they also sell some standing room as well.

 

[Professor Knowall]

I've been to Spotless 4 times now and on each of these 4 times the announced crowd was no in no way "fudged" by the Royal Agriculture Society. My first two times their, my guess was over the actual announced crowd so having learned from this, my crowd guesses were about right for the last 2 games.

On all 4 games, the large majority of the crowd was on the camera side and the Cumberland Stand, directly opposite the camera side and thus the most visible stand on TV, was always the emptiest. This obviously effects the TV perception of the crowd.

Maybe the TV cameras should simply swap sides to the Cumberland Stand - then the "TV crowd" would look bigger than the actual crowd, not smaller. Will the Agricultural Society then be accused of "fudging" the crowds downwards?

 

[____]

AFL ****ed up the scheduling. Hawthorn v Geelong should be the Friday night game, Essendon v St Kilda should be the early Saturday game at Docklands, and our game against the Pies should be at the MCG and the FTA game in Vic... huge huge ****up

 

[BobbyMorri]

I'm pretty sure the NRL and NRL media care about crowd comparisons. If they didn't, why (according to Andrew Webster, this time round) would the NRL be inflating them and the NRL media care enough to report it?

IMO, if they had anything negative on the AFL crowds, we'd know about it and not hear the end of it for quite some time. Instead, NRL people so inclined are reduced to slinking round twitter and internet forums insinuating and trolling, because evidently they've got nothing.

You miss understand me. They care only for NRL crowds.

When is the last time an AFL journalist has written about another sport fudging crowds? Or any sport doing that about another.

Sure, you are right that if they knew about it AFL crowds, they would probably write about it. I don't think any journalist with an inch of credibility would lay on a story. But they will never know unless someone told them. All their sources, all their contacts, all their work is on the NRL. They aren't going to be really digging/investigating into something "foreign". It would be a lot harder to dig up. They have a hard enough time catching the NRL when they do it after all.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Level 1 Seats Counted: 14,223
Level 1 Seats Grayed Out: rough estimate 730
Level 1 Standing Room Area: extends behind an area roughly 208 seats long

Stand Seats Counted: 7,061, which includes:
-- Cumberland 2,619
-- Martin & Angus 848
-- Sinclair 846
-- Vincent Fairfax 1,049
-- Suttor 850
-- Members 849

So your total is 21,284 that leaves 2714 to get to the official capacity of 24,000 Maybe they also sell some standing room as well.

But don't you find it funny that capacities are sometimes nice rounded numbers. I said this before a long time before, but there is no way Blundstone is 20K. I have been there for 15K matches and there is no room whatsoever. That has a large hill. If there is a GA stand or hill at Spotless. That makes things impossible to count cause that can change depending on what is the "safe"(or comfy) limit.

It wouldn't shock me if Spotless actual capacity is lower by a thousand or so. I think most capacities are bull(spin) and the actual limit is lower and not a nice round number.

 

[MattF185]

AFL ****** up the scheduling. Hawthorn v Geelong should be the Friday night game, Essendon v St Kilda should be the early Saturday game at Docklands, and our game against the Pies should be at the MCG and the FTA game in Vic... huge huge ****up

I’d take a match between two arch rivals on the traditional Saturday arvo timeslot at the ‘G, rather than the Friday night.

 

[Our Game]

I’d take a match between two arch rivals on the traditional Saturday arvo timeslot at the ‘G, rather than the Friday night.

I think you are being a little unfair on the AFL most people would not have predicted the Saints having such a crap season in fact many had them in the 8. This could have easily been the match of the round.

 

[Cmarsh]

I think you are being a little unfair on the AFL most people would not have predicted the Saints having such a crap season in fact many had them in the 8. This could have easily been the match of the round.

Fixturing Friday night games would be an unenviable task. I wouldn't like to predict which games are going to be appealing to the public well before a season. It's enivitable that some teams you think are going to have good years turn out to have poor years then you have to wear the public backlash.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Fixturing Friday night games would be an unenviable task. I wouldn't like to predict which games are going to be appealing to the public well before a season. It's enivitable that some teams you think are going to have good years turn out to have poor years then you have to wear the public backlash.

Surely you don't keep doubling down on carlton though?