2018 Trade and FA thread (opposition supporters post in Trade Hypotheticals thread)

[StevoJenkins]

In terms of flight times, is Brisbane much closer to home for Cyril? Just can't believe, even allowing for Messrs Hodge and Fagan's persuasive powers, that all of a sudden he wants to come to us. Unless of course they could agree a fly in/fly out deal like the one for Peter Hudson all those years ago. Cripes, the Hawks would be pissed.

It would be really hard for him to be fully invested with the club if he flew in between. We'd probably need to find a away to get his family over here (his Dad, etc.) if he was to play in Brisbane.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

With all the pre-negotiating going on these days, and given the clubs can't match, do we need any longer than a day or two for unrestricted free agency deals to be done?

 

[irel]

With all the pre-negotiating going on these days, and given the clubs can't match, do we need any longer than a day or two for unrestricted free agency deals to be done?

Seven days not long enough for you WLF?
Friday, 5 October: Restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period starts.
Friday, 12 October 5pm: Close of restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period.

 

[OldLion]

Clubs in heartland states are insulated from their drafting failures in ways we are not.

Nailed it. And our drafting over the last 10 years has been questionable .. hence cellar dweller.

 

[Harris Specter]

Nailed it. And our drafting over the last 10 years has been questionable .. hence cellar dweller.

I'd say our drafting has been quite solid. With Schache, Aish and Longer the exceptions. It's our ability to retain talent which has been the issue, not talent identification.

 

[mick1013]

Flight time for Cyril is only 30 mins less... I can see him coming with **** & Hodge there, would be a serious get and for him & hodge to play 15-18 games each would be a big tick. Cyril to help players like Taylor, Rayner, Cameron, McCarthy. Would love it, but probably pushes someone like Wooler or Mathieson out.

 

[irish]

In terms of flight times, is Brisbane much closer to home for Cyril? Just can't believe, even allowing for Messrs Hodge and Fagan's persuasive powers, that all of a sudden he wants to come to us. Unless of course they could agree a fly in/fly out deal like the one for Peter Hudson all those years ago. Cripes, the Hawks would be pissed.

got this mail 18 months ago ! so its been a long time in the planning or its a fantasy situation. most likely the latter I guess

 

[bato]

I don't even think Cyril is a good player anymore. That's probably the biggest issue.

 

[Harris Specter]

I don't even think Cyril is a good player anymore. That's probably the biggest issue.

Yeah, not sure why we are bothering to be honest. Would rather pump games into Zac Bailey who looks to play a pretty similar role

 

[FFB1]

I think if the AFL are serious about the integrity of the draft then they need to clamp down on players seeking a trade inside their first two years. While there will always be exceptions, for example, on genuine compassionate grounds where a change of family circumstances has occurred, the idea that a player can seek to return to his home state just to be close to family really is a cop out. In Kelly's case, he wasn't an immature 18 year old kid when drafted and he knew what he was getting himself into. His wife and three kids came with him. They don't like living in Geelong, plenty probably wouldn't. But the Cats gave him his chance in the big time and the AFL should make him serve out his contract. They have the power to refuse any trade but they also need to start enforcing the draft rules - two year minimum contracts are there to protect the interests of both player and club. Neither side should be able to tear it up at its discretion.

Think his other half has a lot to do with requesting to go home. 80/20.

 

[Tom14]

Dalhaus compo a second rounder. Means our second rounder can only really be pushed back a max of three spots (Lynch, Gaff and if Lycett is a 1st rounder or an end of first rounder). So probably pick 24-25.

 

[Ironmonger]

Yeah I think you're missing the point. Why would every player accept under their market value across the board to play for Sydney, why would the AFL allow this to continue if all contracts included this?

On a case by case by case basis players will accept unders to stay but that's not possible for all 38-42 players on the list.

As bungwahl goes on to say, players accept less than market value for various reasons all the time, including across an entire list. It's not something the AFL can disallow, particularly if we're talking relatively small amounts like 10%. I'm sure the AFL would investigate if an individual was accepting substantially less than they appeared to be worth, but probably more to determine if they were being paid illegally.

In any case, it's not possible to precisely determine what a player's market value is. Ultimately it's about what clubs are prepared to pay, and Sydney was for most of COLA's existence the only club with the ability to pay more.

This also gets to bungwahl's point about good list management; of course it's okay for players to accept less money to stay at successful clubs, and I'm sure many Swans turned down higher paying offers while they were successful. But when you have additional cap space to accommodate those players, you have to ask them to sacrifice less pay than another club in the same situation would do, and in turn that gives you the chance to recruit additional players that other clubs in the same situation might not be able to afford.

If a player is prepared to pay for a successful club for $400k, or an unsuccessful club for $450k, I really don't see how it matters whether any part of either of those salaries is made up of an allowance. Pridham argues that players expected to receive the COLA, but neither they nor their managers had a way to enforce their entitlement to it, and Sydney had no reason to be more generous than they had to.

 

[Milux]

I don't even think Cyril is a good player anymore. That's probably the biggest issue.

His stats are very underwhelming if you wanna look at raw figures. (Which is a questionable way of eating a player).

 

[T Rick]

I don't even think Cyril is a good player anymore. That's probably the biggest issue.

That is my concern as well and in terms of the "on-field coach" model provided by Hodge, I just don't see Cyril in that role at all. In many respects, Hodge had been a playing coach for years at Hawthorn and Cyril is a different type altogether.

 

[Tom14]

As bungwahl goes on to say, players accept less than market value for various reasons all the time, including across an entire list. It's not something the AFL can disallow, particularly if we're talking relatively small amounts like 10%. I'm sure the AFL would investigate if an individual was accepting substantially less than they appeared to be worth, but probably more to determine if they were being paid illegally.

In any case, it's not possible to precisely determine what a player's market value is. Ultimately it's about what clubs are prepared to pay, and Sydney was for most of COLA's existence the only club with the ability to pay more.

This also gets to bungwahl's point about good list management; of course it's okay for players to accept less money to stay at successful clubs, and I'm sure many Swans turned down higher paying offers while they were successful. But when you have additional cap space to accommodate those players, you have to ask them to sacrifice less pay than another club in the same situation would do, and in turn that gives you the chance to recruit additional players that other clubs in the same situation might not be able to afford.

If a player is prepared to pay for a successful club for $400k, or an unsuccessful club for $450k, I really don't see how it matters whether any part of either of those salaries is made up of an allowance. Pridham argues that players expected to receive the COLA, but neither they nor their managers had a way to enforce their entitlement to it, and Sydney had no reason to be more generous than they had to.

Even if this is all true that is a reason to consider removing COLA, not placing a trading ban on the Swans because you are pissed they were smart enough to pick up Buddy. There was no proof at all that trading players would have put them over COLA - in fact it could have kept their cap artificially high as they became reluctant to trade players out.

If trading the players in would have breached the extra cap they got while COLA was being phased out (which was a necessity to give players their legally contracted money) then hit the club with fines and draft pick penalties etc etc.

Its one of the most ridiculous AFL decisions and there have been a lot of those.

Anyway, thats probably enough COLA discussion for the Trade/FA thread!

 

[VossAkerBlack]

I'm enjoying the fallout from Tim Kelly asking for a trade home after one year. The fact it's Geelong after what Ablett did to the Suns for two years makes it even more hypocritical.

 

[Ironmonger]

Even if this is all true that is a reason to consider removing COLA, not placing a trading ban on the Swans because you are pissed they were smart enough to pick up Buddy. There was no proof at all that trading players would have put them over COLA - in fact it could have kept their cap artificially high as they became reluctant to trade players out.

If trading the players in would have breached the extra cap they got while COLA was being phased out (which was a necessity to give players their legally contracted money) then hit the club with fines and draft pick penalties etc etc.

Its one of the most ridiculous AFL decisions and there have been a lot of those.

Anyway, thats probably enough COLA discussion for the Trade/FA thread!

This discussion has come full circle.

They weren't banned. They were able to trade within the existing salary cap, but not if they wanted to use the additional allowance they were given while the COLA was being phased out. 'Banning' is the word the Swans use in their very successful public relations efforts.

If they had space to recruit new players, they shouldn't have needed the additional allowance to pay existing ones.

Hence why Richmond are in fact subject to the same restrictions Sydney were. Less, in fact.

 

[M Malice]

His stats are very underwhelming if you wanna look at raw figures. (Which is a questionable way of eating a player).

Well said Hannibal.

 

[Tom14]

This discussion has come full circle.

They weren't banned. They were able to trade within the existing salary cap, but not if they wanted to use the additional allowance they were given while the COLA was being phased out. 'Banning' is the word the Swans use in their very successful public relations efforts.

If they had space to recruit new players, they shouldn't have needed the additional allowance to pay existing ones.

Hence why Richmond are in fact subject to the same restrictions Sydney were. Less, in fact.

Agree to disagree then.

Anyway, back on the trade news Steve Rosich (Freo CEO) coming up on Trade Radio in 10 mins.

 

[bato]

I'm enjoying the fallout from Tim Kelly asking for a trade home after one year. The fact it's Geelong after what Ablett did to the Suns for two years makes it even more hypocritical.

To be fair, Gaz was 'stolen' by the Suns. He was destined to return home. Slightly different situation with Kelly.

 

[Tom14]

Annnnnd as expected Rosich is going to posture heavily publicly:

 

[M Malice]

Steve Rosich on Trade Radio now saying that our 1st pick will not be enough to get Lachie Neale.

 

[tate13]

Listened to Rosich interview. Sounds like an idiot tbh. Utterly transparent posturing. Spoke about the acquisitions they want to make, but that they won't be trading players. Smacks of the old "We won't trade Aish"

 

[Hollow Knight]

Steve Rosich on Trade Radio now saying that our 1st pick will not be enough to get Lachie Neale.

Entirely predictable. Both parties setting up their chess pieces.

Next up to bat will be Noble who will say "we think pick 4 is a big prize in this draft and other clubs have been making enquiries as to how they can get their hands on it".

Ultimately pick 4 and some steak knives will be the end outcome on what we ship out (whether we split it etc), we will get Neale, they will get Hogan, both parties will look like they met in the middle and everyone saves some face and gets a win to sell to the fans.

It's all PR from here pretty much. Talks have been going for a bit and there will be a bit of "theatre" for the fans before the paperwork finally gets lodged.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Perhaps we'll think about splitting 4 into 9/10 and offer Freo pick 9. Soon they'll be begging for pick 4