List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

[Chief]

This is Part 1

The thread is continued in part 2:

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

This Part 2 Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management-free-agency-trade-thread.1241035/ What type of players does our list need? Pace, Skill, Class and and goal threat. A winger, forward flank and forward pocket are the 3 positions that we need, plus...

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[Joao]

I think this is the year to take a speculative punt on a tall for our first pick.

Our developing depth in defence and the midfield is good. We are 1 or 2 good tall forwards away from from building a list that could challenge for a flag.

The most highly regarded talls in this draft - McDonald/Reid/Tilthorpe/JUH/DGB and Cox - will be gone by our first so we are going to have to take a punt like we did with Apeness and hope that it turns out better. He would have been ok but for injuries btw.

I am looking at the likes of Callow or Neale for pick 12. I can hear you all choking on your coco pops right now.

Callow looks ok - a no nonsense type of player.

Neale has elite athletic qualities. The upside for this bloke is huge. Just will take a couple of years. He will go a lot earlier in the draft than people think.

We have to act on the Tall Forward issue now. No good kicking the can down the road another year.

If we wanted those blokes we could easily turn 12 into a couple of 2nd rounders and take both.

I agree we should speculate with our first, but we should speculate on a "match winner" type. Henry, Cook etc.

 

[Docker82]

But what are you risking not having a 4th rounder next year? Our major list overhauls are complete besides a few specific pieces so we probably don't need our 4th rounder next year or we miss out on 8-10 places late in the draft in 2021 for an insurance policy.

Learning from last years mistakes is a step forward in my book.

We did a trade before the draft last year? We got screwed as well.

We also did two at the draft:
- One is the one we got shafted by Port. Got us the points for Henry.
- The other we traded a future fifth to Brisbane for a pick they had no intention of using. Got us Frederick.

I see no issue with the Frederick trade. In the case of Brisbane last year and Adelaide they weren’t going to use the picks so were willing to accept minimal return for them. With more clubs taking less picks, I think we would’ve had multiple options to trade back into the draft when we wanted.

The trade today assumes the best case scenario - just my opinion. Of course if the Walker bid comes in the late 30s (anytime after our second really) I’ll acknowledge the club has done the right thing. I’m just worried this trade will bite us in the bum if a Walker bid comes early

 

[Docker82]

I hear what your saying but this is the mindset that has got us nowhere. After Walker and Western bids our next pick will be around 55 ish and I can guarantee they will not still be there. We have to be speculative and get on the front foot. Not just hope the cards fall our way.

With the current list being well stocked with young mids and defenders ( to be supplemented by the two NGAs ) now is the time to take a risk.

No doubt when it is our turn at the draft we will select the next HFF/Mid off the rank but if it were me, I'd take a punt on Neale or Callow.

Selecting Apeness (ie doing exactly what you’re suggesting and reaching) didn’t exactly help either.

Overlooking Sam Reid

20

Sam Reid

Age

33

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.4

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.4

3star

for Joel Houghton and Jack Darling

27

Jack Darling

Age

32

Ht

191cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.4

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.4

5star

for Jayden Pitt

Jayden Pitt

Age

32

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

was what screwed us more.

Let’s not pretend we don’t have other needs. We only have three mids under the age of 25 that look like being full time A Grade mids and we aren’t exactly stacked with talented forwards of any description either.

 

[maccamk]

Now we could swap 32 and 55 for 26 with the Bulldogs as 26 is useless to them and would likely get us in front of bids for our NGA's and gives them a few more Points for matching.

By the time most of the Dog's, Swans and Ports picks get cleaned out matching early bids, our remaining 2 picks come in to about 50 and 55 so still worth reasonable points for our matching.

They already have enough points to match pick 2


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[maccamk]

32 584
55 207
56 194
63 112
Total 1097

Discount 197x 2 = 394

Total points plus discount equals 1491 pts

Divide by 2 = 745

745 points is about pick 25

So we essentially can match 2 bids at pick 25.

FYI WB will be using 4 picks to match JUH. This means our picks 55,56 and 63 will come in 3 picks.




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[nurries]

32 584
55 207
56 194
63 112
Total 1097

Discount 197x 2 = 394

Total points plus discount equals 1491 pts

Divide by 2 = 745

745 points is about pick 25

So we essentially can match 2 bids at pick 25.

FYI WB will be using 4 picks to match JUH. This means our picks 55,56 and 63 will come in 3 picks.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Think we are expecting a bid for Walker around 20

 

[Superkoops]

We did a trade before the draft last year? We got screwed as well.

We also did two at the draft:
- One is the one we got shafted by Port. Got us the points for Henry.
- The other we traded a future fifth to Brisbane for a pick they had no intention of using. Got us Frederick.

I see no issue with the Frederick trade. In the case of Brisbane last year and Adelaide they weren’t going to use the picks so were willing to accept minimal return for them. With more clubs taking less picks, I think we would’ve had multiple options to trade back into the draft when we wanted.

The trade today assumes the best case scenario - just my opinion. Of course if the Walker bid comes in the late 30s (anytime after our second really) I’ll acknowledge the club has done the right thing. I’m just worried this trade will bite us in the bum if a Walker bid comes early

I’m struggling to understand how we got screwed in a trade of 2020 56, 63 vs around 65 in 2021.

We can do all of you’re saying on draft night except now we go with more 2020 picks.

With the rule change that clubs can collect as many picks as they want for points means that our fourth pick would have been very late. What I mean is before the rule change our fourth pick would have likely been in 60’s but now there are going to be a heap of picks listed against clubs in the fourth and fifth rounds that they may not use or use only for points. We will still likely get a 6th round pick because we’re going to the draft with 6 spots available. That 6th pick may fall in the early 70’s and provide more points as it moves forward.

As for pick 32 I’m fine with that being used on Walker who seems likely for a late 20’s bid. By the time that bid comes 32 will be 37 so moving from 37 to 27 is fine with me. What they may do is try and get a pick in before the second bid (ie between Walker and Western).

I understand your thinking on making a trade like we did during the draft and once the bids go through, except Adelaide prob don’t want to carry these picks to the draft and may have had other offers to turn to (ie a now or never scenario).

We can still get creative on draft night and we are well positioned to do so.

 

[Joao]

Think we are expecting a bid for Walker around 20

**** I hope you're wrong.

That would be two years running where our bids came at the absolute top of their range.

 

[Lach72]

 

[nurries]

**** I hope you're wrong.

That would be two years running where our bids came at the absolute top of their range.

Unfortunately for us, all recruiters have been able to focus on WA with Vic being in lockdown

 

[Taylor]

We want our academy producing first round talent. The only issue here is that we don't get as big of a discount as we would if they were hidden.

 

[Joao]

We want our academy producing first round talent. The only issue here is that we don't get as big of a discount as we would if they were hidden.

His talent doesn't change because the bid is higher or lower though. We want every other team to be underrating him, not correctly or overrating him.

 

[Freomaniac]

I’m not sure why we’re doing this trade now tbh.

Adelaide by my reckoning had no intention of using those draft selections at all but they’d still be there (unless traded) until Adelaide passed on draft night. Given they have a selection at Pick 40, we could’ve waited until there’s no bid until after Pick 32 and made the trade on draft night. Adelaide wouldn’t be the only club trying to get rid of picks they weren’t going to use. More clubs will pop up after bids too.

The trade becomes quite useless if there is a bid on Walker before Pick 32, as Picks 55, 56 and 66 are equal to a pick around 35. These picks are only going to get higher before a Walker bid too.

Seems like we’ve blinked and ended up once again trading away a future pick for potentially little gain. Of course if it works well done but I do feel we could’ve taken less risk here.

I dont think trading freos 2021 4th rounder is going to set the whole team 4-6 years back isnt it?


well start of the trade period, Freo only had their 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th and 7th.

Freo have traded their future 2nd rounders almost every year but with some reason.



I have said this many times, I dont mind trading out specificially the 2nd and 4th rounders. I rather keep the 1st and 3rd rounders of each year.


I have said this before and will say it again. If freo finishes bottom 4-5 and doesnt have that 2nd rounder which is 23 and 59 but has that 1st and 3rd rounder which is 5 and 41, there are ways those 2 picks can be traded.

Pick 5 was traded in 2019, Saints traded it for a mid 1st rounder in 12 and late 1st rounder in 18.

In 2018, freo traded that pick, well it was pushed back to pick 6 due to the tom lynch compo pick. the trade was pick 6, 2019 3rd to port for picks 11, 23, 31 and 49. I didnt mind that trade.

 

[Carnthedockers]

Fox footy on us. Can someone explain to me why would need to split 32? I thought we would want to go the other way?

On Thursday they sent out a future fourth-round pick for Adelaide’s picks 56 and 63, adding to their haul of 32 and 55 - they may still need to split 32 for two or more late picks.

 

[blue shark]

I think this is the year to take a speculative punt on a tall for our first pick.

Our developing depth in defence and the midfield is good. We are 1 or 2 good tall forwards away from from building a list that could challenge for a flag.

The most highly regarded talls in this draft - McDonald/Reid/Tilthorpe/JUH/DGB and Cox - will be gone by our first so we are going to have to take a punt like we did with Apeness and hope that it turns out better. He would have been ok but for injuries btw.

I am looking at the likes of Callow or Neale for pick 12. I can hear you all choking on your coco pops right now.

Callow looks ok - a no nonsense type of player.

Neale has elite athletic qualities. The upside for this bloke is huge. Just will take a couple of years. He will go a lot earlier in the draft than people think.

We have to act on the Tall Forward issue now. No good kicking the can down the road another year.

I think this draft will supply many surprises, similar to Georgiardes selection.
Even the premiers will be looking for a replacement for Jack.
Next years draft has plenty of mids/forwards, KPF will be in demand this year.

 

[DragoDelph]

Re early bid. Would expect Richmond, and then Melbourne, Collingwood and GWS to bid, given they have multiple late firsts

 

[Docker82]

Fox footy on us. Can someone explain to me why would need to split 32? I thought we would want to go the other way?

On Thursday they sent out a future fourth-round pick for Adelaide’s picks 56 and 63, adding to their haul of 32 and 55 - they may still need to split 32 for two or more late picks.

Twomey yesterday stated that it’s more likely than unlikely a Walker bid comes after Pick 32 - also stated a Western bid won’t come before Pick 32.

Would’ve thought the best case scenario is for someone like Neale or Callow to slip through to Pick 32. Even if Walker and Western literally went in the next five or so selections we probably have enough points after the later picks come in a bit.

I’m sure the club will have options up their sleeve to trade pick 32 out if a bid comes just before it. We could then trade back up or back into the order just we match to get a pick in before Western.

 

[Joao]

Fox footy on us. Can someone explain to me why would need to split 32? I thought we would want to go the other way?

On Thursday they sent out a future fourth-round pick for Adelaide’s picks 56 and 63, adding to their haul of 32 and 55 - they may still need to split 32 for two or more late picks.

We might split live if someone bids before 32.

 

[Taylor]

His talent doesn't change because the bid is higher or lower though. We want every other team to be underrating him, not correctly or overrating him.

You're right, but at least we still get access to him

 

[FD2646]

Good little player, but think we have enough blokes of his size on the list already. If we selected him, could possibly spell the beginning of the end for blokes like schultz, switta, giro, crowden - the latter 2 in particular (apologies to fans of those players).

 

[Carnthedockers]

We might split live if someone bids before 32.

Sorry im not that sharp on this. So if someone bids early, before it goes through we can have a pre arranged live deal? Could you give me an example?

 

[Scham]

His talent doesn't change because the bid is higher or lower though. We want every other team to be underrating him, not correctly or overrating him.

Bids don’t come early “apparently”.

 

[DragoDelph]

O

Good little player, but think we have enough blokes of his size on the list already. If we selected him, could possibly spell the beginning of the end for blokes like schultz, switta, giro, crowden - the latter 2 in particular (apologies to fans of those players).

Or we’re trolling Carlton..

 

[Docker82]

Sorry im not that sharp on this. So if someone bids early, before it goes through we can have a pre arranged live deal? Could you give me an example?

Last year you had two minutes to either make a selection or match a bid. In that time you could make live trades.

Freo made a live trade with Port Adelaide to get extra picks to match the Liam Henry bid last year. I was only to post what the trade was but me reading the trade again is bad enough... We got screwed pretty much.

 

[Docker82]

Good little player, but think we have enough blokes of his size on the list already. If we selected him, could possibly spell the beginning of the end for blokes like schultz, switta, giro, crowden - the latter 2 in particular (apologies to fans of those players).

Would’ve thought Giro’s spot on the list isn’t too dependent on us drafting another small forward. He’s a winger and has never played anywhere else. Western would probably pose him more danger but again Western isn’t really a winger, more a small inside mid.

I get the feeling the club really rates Switta and Crowden compared to most of us. Schultz if he plays like this year will be going no where plus he’s a pretty good mark for his size.

For the above three they all show some good things but need to put more on the scoreboard. Not sure we can rely on the more talented Henry and Sturt for defensive pressure so there’s a spot or two there if these guys are good enough. Every good team has players like them.