List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

[Chief]

This is Part 1

The thread is continued in part 2:

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

This Part 2 Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management-free-agency-trade-thread.1241035/ What type of players does our list need? Pace, Skill, Class and and goal threat. A winger, forward flank and forward pocket are the 3 positions that we need, plus...

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[Taylor]

I can see Carlton moving as much of her family over there as possible as well.

This would be required to be included in the salary cap.

 

[Dockeroo]

All the players we have drafted in the last five years combined haven't polled as many Brownlow Medal votes as Patrick Cripps as by himself in the previous two seasons.

We are talking about a gun player, 25 years old who we could get for below market value on salary cap and trade because of a family draw home.

And yet you'd choose what is in the mystery box over that.

Our picks recently have looked better because they have been high selections, I'm not expecting us to have a top ten pick again for a long time and the quality of those players taken there will reflect that reduction in draft pick power.

With respect, If this list management philosophy was true, Hawthorn would be in the top 4 playing finals tonight. Instead they are bottom 4 with a bunch of crocked players and mercenaries like Wingard (doubt if too many power fans missed him last night) that they traded in, most of whom played their best footy elsewhere. Honestly don’t believe there are any players in the AFL currently, worth 2 first round picks. I reckon we have one of the best draft recruiting teams in the AFL - just back them in again to keep doing what they have done since 2016.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

PSA for the guys/gals from Carlton. If you read the posts in this thread, there is maybe one Freo supporter that;
A) Thinks this is a realistic chance of happening and that Brad Hardie isnt full of sh*t
B) Doesnt understand that Cripps loves Carlton and wouldnt leave unless he had no other choice
C) Doesnt understand it would likely be the 2nd most expensive trade in history to get done

However, as it is silly season for us fellow pleb clubs who didnt make finals, its fun to speculate on what may be, however unlikely. Given your board rumour discussion page has about 10 posts a minute on bringing in 10 new players this offseason, I'm sure you can all understand this.

You lot may continue to post here to;
A) Have some respectful laughs / bantz
B) Try to discuss seriously what the actual trade would look like

We dont need you lot telling us something we know already - that there is probably more chance Joao admits Crowden isnt the 2nd coming of Fyfe than Cripps coming to Freo

We still have a few peanuts on our board that think we're still getting The Pav!!!

 

[wahooo]

I expect the contract value would be huge, but I also expect it to be 7 years long.

The trade can only get so high. Lachie Neale is about to win a brownlow and he was worth an early first, a late first and an upgrade to a second back.

Our first this year and next is more, and enough.

Lachie Neale was criminally under rated when he played for us. We all know that. This is an absolute star, arguably a better player than Neale at a huge Vic club, he's not going to come cheap. It could well be one of the most expensive trades ever.

Personally in the boat of not jumping the gun, there's no need to get ahead of ourselves. It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that the noise we're hearing is likely his manager trying to get him a few more dollars in his next contract. I think we're silly to contemplate the idea, as long as a year remains on his contract, I'd expect Carlton to hold him to it. In the event he's looking for a trade with a year to go on his contract Carlton will be asking for a king's ransom.

 

[Quokka]

Don't think too many would hesitate at our first this year and next for Cripps, it's the and extra that's the question.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

This is all going to be very boring when the only thing we do this off-season is trade Blakely for a 3rd round pick

 

[Taylor]

With respect, If this list management philosophy was true, Hawthorn would be in the top 4 playing finals tonight. Instead they are bottom 4 with a bunch of crocked players and mercenaries like Wingard (doubt if too many power fans missed him last night) that they traded in, most of whom played their best footy elsewhere. Honestly don’t believe there are any players in the AFL currently, worth 2 first round picks. I reckon we have one of the best draft recruiting teams in the AFL - just back them in again to keep doing what they have done since 2016.

The same Hawthorn that has taken picks #13 and #19 as top twenty draft picks total in the last seven years (Since Cripps was drafted)?

Compared to Fremantle which has used: #2, #5, #7, #8, #8, #9, #13, #17 and #17

You're making my point for me. Hawthorn has not had the high picks injected into their side like we have.

 

[heypenny]

It's a tricky one, as Cripps is not really what we need but he's a gun player. It would be remiss of us pass it by.

How often do the big trades work though? I see a lot more misses than wins. Dangerfield and Neale are probably the only recent ones I can think of.

We have some very painful memories of trading first-round picks - Croad, J Carr, Headland, Tarrant and Hogan. I would hate for this to happen again, and move heaven and earth to get a player that doesn't quite deliver. I really hope the equation is taken out of our hands and Cripps signs a long term extension (and his partner gets well).

 

[Quokka]

This is all going to be very boring when the only thing we do this off-season is trade Blakely for a 3rd round pick

And yet I'd be happy bored.

 

[kp junior]

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that the noise we're hearing is likely his manager trying to get him a few more dollars in his next contract. I think we're silly to contemplate the idea, as long as a year remains on his contract, I'd expect Carlton to hold him to it. In the event he's looking for a trade with a year to go on his contract Carlton will be asking for a king's ransom.

Surely a club captain of Cripps' stature in the game doesn't need to play those sort of games?

 

[Superkoops]

Yeah, until one of these big swingers actually starts performing consistently eg Hogan Lobb
I'd rather go to the draft, as we are actually ok at that.
Bringing in overhyped players from the East, to come home etc I hope those strategies are long gone!

Whilst I agree with your point I don’t agree with the common misconception that Lobb was a high cost trade. From mid season Lobb didn’t perform as well as he could but in 2019 and a lot of 2020 he was very reasonable (aside from the stutter goal kick).

The trade for Lobb:
11, 19 > Lobb, 14, 43 and 47.
(ON PTS THAT IS WORTH PICK40)

The High cost trades to refer to would include:
- Hogan (6 and second round pick)
- Tarrant (8,13, Medhurst, Polak and we received some other picks back)
- Croad (pick 1 and a second round pick, thankfully McPharlin was thrown in)
- Josh Carr (1st, 2nd, 3rd rounds)
- Headland (5, 21, McPhee)

Lobb isn’t even in that ballpark

 

[eastfreo75]

It's a tricky one, as Cripps is not really what we need but he's a gun player. It would be remiss of us pass it by.

How often do the big trades work though? I see a lot more misses than wins. Dangerfield and Neale are probably the only recent ones I can think of.

We have some very painful memories of trading first-round picks - Croad, J Carr, Headland, Tarrant and Hogan. I would hate for this to happen again, and move heaven and earth to get a player that doesn't quite deliver. I really hope the equation is taken out of our hands and Cripps signs a long term extension (and his partner gets well).

It's about doing your homework.

Croad never wanted to leave Hawthorn, while McPharlin wanted to return home and he had character

J Carr was a good trade because it was a weak draft

Tarrant we payed too much. Should have kept 13, Medhurst and Polak

Hogan we payed too much and his mental/physical health was and still is a risk. Plus the top 7 will end up the best 7 drafted ever. Could have had B King and Rozee.

Headland had Bipartite patella and we should have done a medical test.

Devils in the detail. Homework into the draft, medicals, social factors and character.

 

[Bender571]

IF Cripps was to request a trade to WA I wouldn't be surprised to see Fyfe offer to take a pay cut to help facilitate the move. He's really wants a flag, and Cripps shouldering some of the load might extend his career as well.

 

[wild side]

Whilst I agree with your point I don’t agree with the common misconception that Lobb was a high cost trade. From mid season Lobb didn’t perform as well as he could but in 2019 and a lot of 2020 he was very reasonable (aside from the stutter goal kick).

The trade for Lobb:
11, 19 > Lobb, 14, 43 and 47.
(ON PTS THAT IS WORTH PICK40)

The High cost trades to refer to would include:
Hogan (top 10 pick and second round pick)
Tarrant (8,13, Medhurst, Polak and we received some other picks back)
Croad (pick 1 and a second round pick, thankfully McPharlin was thrown in)

Lobb isn’t even in that ballpark

I was just quoting recents, coz the recruiting team weren't around in our horror years.
Look it was ok at the time, could still work out with Hogan and Lobb.
But I'm over bringing in prima donnas, when we can recruit extremely high end citizens like Serong at a young age, who could become a future captain.
I back our recruiters now, not back when

 

[Yeti]

So reading the main board it seems this year we could really make amends for past mistakes.

Thoughts on this?
- Luke Ryan and next year's 2nd rounder to the Bulldogs for Hayden Crozier
- Brennan Cox and next years 3rd round pick to Gold Coast for Sam Collins
- Nat Fyfe, Caleb Serong, Adam Cerra and this year's 1st round pick to Brisbane for Lachie Neale
- Mitch Crowden to St Kilda for Brad Hill and their 1st round pick this year and next years 1st round pick.

Let's get it done.

 

[Van_Dyke]

So reading the main board it seems this year we could really make amends for past mistakes.

Thoughts on this?
- Luke Ryan and next year's 2nd rounder to the Bulldogs for Hayden Crozier
- Brennan Cox and next years 3rd round pick to Gold Coast for Sam Collins
- Nat Fyfe, Caleb Serong, Adam Cerra and this year's 1st round pick to Brisbane for Lachie Neale
- Mitch Crowden to St Kilda for Brad Hill and their 1st round pick this year and next years 1st round pick.

Let's get it done.

you had me until the trade for Crowden, that's far too little for him

 

[Scham]

How often do the big trades work though? I see a lot more misses than wins. Dangerfield and Neale are probably the only recent ones I can think of.

And neither of those trades have resulted in the team winning a premiership...yet.

 

[Dale147]

If he gets here, he gets here, as long as no bonehead trades akin to the 2000s are done to make it happen.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

And neither of those trades have resulted in the team winning a premiership...yet.

It'd be a terrific area for a football nerd to do a proper study into. How much better does trading in a big name make your team and how often does it lead to premiership success.

I cant think of any team that has had success spending up big to trade in a big name recruit.

A high level think back tells me teams are significantly better off trading for b22 "pieces" like a Conca, Wilson or Aish then they are an elite player

 

[Taylor]

Brad Ottens (#2 draft pick) was traded to Geelong for two first round picks back when that was a big deal, he was a huge part of their triple premiership winning side.

 

[Scham]

So 15 years ago. Spot on Snuff. It’s very, very rare.

 

[Taylor]

Shaun Burgoyne for pick #9 and Williams (multiple leading goal kicker, premiership player), worked out well for them too.

 

[heypenny]

It'd be a terrific area for a football nerd to do a proper study into. How much better does trading in a big name make your team and how often does it lead to premiership success.

I cant think of any team that has had success spending up big to trade in a big name recruit.

A high level think back tells me teams are significantly better off trading for b22 "pieces" like a Conca, Wilson or Aish then they are an elite player

Exactly. Hawthorn did it well in the 2010-2012 period by picking up Gibson, Hale, Gunston, Brian Lake and Ben McEvoy for picks in the second and third rounds. Think they paid the most for McEvoy as a very late first-rounder. They didn't move heaven and earth for a gun player. Franklin, Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Rioli were all drafted.

I can't think of an example of a big name trade resulting in a premiership for a team. Tom Lynch doesn't count as he was a free agent.

 

[Taylor]

Dion Prestia went for pick #6 with a swap of seconds. Won two flags so far. B&F in one of those years too so not like he wasn't an important player.

 

[DragoDelph]

If he gets here, he gets here, as long as no bonehead trades akin to the 2000s are done to make it happen.

But Lloyd is at Carlton now....
(I know they were Schwab)