List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[Broadside]

They should all be under pressure and even at this stage I have only 14 or 15 players I can deem as definite starers.
6 years ago the first ~18 were so easy to pick and not necessarily for the quality of the players on hand, but because there wasn't much underneath.

Docherty Jones Plowman
Saad Weitering Marchbank

DeKoning Cripps Williams
Walsh Setterfield Williamson

Martin McKay Fisher
McGovern CCurnow Betts

SPS Murphy ECurnow ******

Problem with that team though, is that we don't have a relief ruck-man, so that will have to change.
Betts will likely start if contracted. Debatable whether he should but......

Senior players not included - Casboult Newnes Newman Gibbons
Young players not included - Dow O'Brien Stocker Cuningham JSilvagni Honey Kemp Cottrell Philp

I thought it was hard to put forward a best 22 last year. Going to be a lot tougher this upcoming one.

Casboult is a great interchange player. Could ruck or go forward or defend.

 

[AB_Blue]

We’re in a good position actually adding Williams and Saad makes us a better team and perhaps another solid contributor if we’re lucky, a few key players in Curnow and Marchy returning and with some luck
one of our young guns shows some good signs. 2021 will be very positive and we‘ll be ready to snare another gun or two, at the end of the campaign.

This

Our 2021 line up is in for a shakeup


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brutalitops]

Casboult is a great interchange player. Could ruck or go forward or defend.

Bring back the sub and lets get a vest on him

 

[BlueTongue]

I hope Williams can provide support for Cripps aswell but I have my doubts I have a lot more trust in settefield Walsh and Dow to provide that support than I do in Williams.

Yeah I don't see Williams as support for Cripps.
I'd say he's been recruited more to address leg speed and delivery into the forward line.
He's the 'Scotland' type player we have desperately been in need of since Scotto left.

We can get any mid range bull to assist Cripps.

 

[BlueTongue]

I don't have any of Newnes, Gibbons nor Newman in our starting 22 next year if Betts stays on, all players are fit and we acquire Saad, Williams +

There should be another player that just pops out of nowhere and demands a starting spot come round 1; Honey? Cottrell? Philp? Kemp?

And rightfully so. They are depth players in a contending side. That's probably being a bit harsh on Gibbo, but if we have recruited the right players (including the previous 4 you mentioned - which all seem to have big wraps on them) then they will find it hard to break in again.

 

[BlueTongue]

Can you name me the last hbf who at age 26 suddenly transformed into a gun midfielder? It doesn’t happen he is an above average half back who has one top 5 finish in a best and fairest but will never be a gun midfielder, our list management team has made a horrible mistake.

I get and agree with your statement to an extent, but I don't see it as going out and recruiting a gun mid so much as filling a role with a specific and badly needed skillset. He'll play wing and deliver the ball into the forward line for us with bullet precision. He's a very smart distributor, and line breaker, not necessarily there to rack up possessions.

 

[Brutalitops]

Yeah I don't see Williams as support for Cripps.
I'd say he's been recruited more to address leg speed and delivery into the forward line.
He's the 'Scotland' type player we have desperately been in need of since Scotto left.

We can get any mid range bull to assist Cripps.

In a way he does. Being able to use his speed to clear a congestion means less stoppages for him and Setterfield to slog through. That lightens the load. If we start playing SPS more in the midfield and letting him use his evasiveness and quality of disposal (meaning more marks moving forward from a stoppage) that would help too.

 

[Stamos]

Plow, Jones, Doc
Saad, Weiters, Marchbank

Williamson

TDK(/Pitto), Cripps, Walsh, Williams, Ed, Setters

Samo

Martin, Harry, ...
Fish, Charlie, ...

4 spots left (2-3 forwards, 1-2 mids)

 

[Red Bull]

Saad Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Williamson
Walsh Cripps Williams
Martin Curnow SPS
Fisher McKay McGovern

TDK Setterfield Dow

Curnow Kemp Cuningham ........


This year was a write off for Dow through injury.
Might be blind faith but think he has the “tools” to be a serious footballer.
I’m leaving the last spot open.
Reckon there is another player to be added in the trade period and if so, he’ll play ...

 

[Michael Jezz]

Whether it’s SOS or Austin, we don’t seem to be able to react spontaneously when options other than our obvious targets become available. I keep hearing we are after another “big fish” - but players like Higgins would be quite good (and relatively cheap) - yet we never seem to be in the mix for them.

It is more like SoS embued the club with "deal discipline". Don't overpay and stick to your strategy. Would we be happy with Coniglio and Shiel on their exposed form? So often the deals avoided based on unemotive establishment of true worth are more valuable than deals consummated

 

[thylacine60]

Bring back the sub and lets get a vest on him

no you!

 

[BlueTongue]

Saad Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Williamson
Walsh Cripps Williams
Martin Curnow SPS
Fisher McKay McGovern

TDK Setterfield Dow

Curnow Kemp Cuningham ........


This year was a write off for Dow through injury.
Might be blind faith but think he has the “tools” to be a serious footballer.
I’m leaving the last spot open.
Reckon there is another player to be added in the trade period and if so, he’ll play ...

No room for Murphy?

what about

Saad Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Williamson
SPS Cripps Williams
Murphy Curnow Martin
Fisher McKay McGovern

TDK Setterfield Walsh

 

[Red Bull]

No room for Murphy?

what about

Saad Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Williamson
SPS Cripps Williams
Murphy Curnow Martin
Fisher McKay McGovern

TDK Setterfield Walsh

Murphy would be last picked in my team.
I’ll leave it at that and look forward to the future ...

 

[Michael Jezz]

Am I the only one really cynical about our list management?

We were sold a ‘3-yr rebuild’ via the draft. It began really promisingly with an investment in KP players, but fizzled a bit with a series of top 20 picks that range from underwhelming to straight busts.

Then 4 years into the 3-year rebuild we did an about face and starting throwing cash at any 26 year old who would accept it.

End result:
- 700k+ for Mitch McGovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

30

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

and his whopping 0.8 goals, 7 disposals and 3 marks Per game
-$1m in the first year and $500k+ from here on for a half forward with shaky goalkicking who shows up one out of 3 games (at best)
- apparently 800k+ for a back pocket who isn’t one of the top 10 players for the 10th best team in the comp
- 700k+ and a top 10 pick for a half-back flank renowned for running fast, kicking to no-one, and being temperamental about the defensive side of playing in defence.

That’s nearly 25% of the comp on 4 blokes who don’t have an All-Australian between them (and other than Saad haven’t even sniffed it).

Oh, and the chips are definitely being pushed into the middle of the table here. Cripps is a year off free agency, we still rely far too heavily on blokes in their 30s, and the good young players are all hitting the 23-25 age range where they need to start winning or suddenly free agency/demanding a trade starts looking pretty appealing (and we don’t have the cap space to making staying worthwhile if we aren’t winning).

Clearly I’m scarred from the past 20 years but those of us who dared naysay in 2014 were ridiculed on this board too at the time. This looks eerily like a whole new way for Carlton to stuff it up to me, although I’m hoping desperately that isn’t the case, of course.

Be cynical about coaching, culture and footy dept not list mngmnt. This is how it is done.

 

[Brutalitops]

Plow, Jones, Doc
Saad, Weiters, Marchbank

Williamson

TDK(/Pitto), Cripps, Walsh, Williams, Ed, Setters

Samo

Martin, Harry, ...
Fish, Charlie, ...

4 spots left (2-3 forwards, 1-2 mids)

Sammo on the forward flank. He'll be sending it inside 50 lace out on their ****. If we're not playing him midfield then thats where he should be played.

 

[Stamos]

Sammo on the forward flank. He'll be sending it inside 50 lace out on their ****. If we're not playing him midfield then thats where he should be played.

Yeah, high half forward, up to the contest. Occasionally rotating through mid proper.

 

[ETET]

I hope Williams can provide support for Cripps aswell but I have my doubts I have a lot more trust in settefield Walsh and Dow to provide that support than I do in Williams.

Gosh Williams has done it in a prelim whereas Dow and Setterfeld have not been near this level.

 

[djholmes]

It looks better every week.

Ins:

Williams (Free)
Saad (Pick 7)
Stephenson trade for O'Brien

B: Plowman----------------Jones---------------Docherty

H: *Williams------------Weitering-------------*Saad

C: Cuningham-------------Cripps----------------Dow

H: *Stephenson--------C.Curnow------------Martin

F: Betts--------------------McKay-------------McGovern

Foll: De Koning, Setterfield, Walsh

Bench: Marchbank, SPS, Stocker, Newnes

 

[TENACIOUS]

I'm of the opinion lets go for the now...

Only if Oliver/Merrett/JDG are unavailable

FA>Williams (Done)
Pick 9 & Pick 27> Stephenson & Treloar
2021 Second & O'Brien/ JSOS/ Kennedy> Saad

***Not overly keen with Stephenson either - but apparently hub life effected him Stocker style, maybe a shrewd pick up***

B: Plowman----------------Jones---------------Newman

H: Docherty------------Weitering-------------*Saad

C: Walsh-------------Cripps----------------Williamson

H: *Stephenson--------C.Curnow------------Martin

F: Betts--------------------McKay-------------McGovern

Foll: De Koning, *Treloar, *Williams

Bench: SPS, Dow, Setterfield, Casboult/Pittonet

Depth: Marchbank, Silvagni, Murphy, Kennedy, Cuningham, Curnow, Polson, Newnes, Gibbons, Moore

Just take the pressure of these guys below let them breath and give them time to learn...
If they are knocking the door down let them play, but we have enough depth now to take the pressure off them..

Learning: Kemp, Stocker, Macready, Ramsey, Phil, Honey, Phillips, Owies, Cottrell

 

[GapInIkonPark]

If 7 goes to Essendope for a half back Austin may as well resign on the spot.

Even if we got a 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder back I'd still say it's overs.

Trading Dow or LoB is also nuts. Would happily part with McGovern though.

Seriously Saad is out of contract. It's a late first at best if we can split pick 7 for two 1sts. If we can't it's pick 27 or see you in the PSD.

If Saad ends up elsewhere as a result so be it.

Has to be like Carlisle, St Kilda gave up pick 5 and got pick 14 back.

 

[Brackets]

If 7 goes to Essendope for a half back Austin may as well resign on the spot.

Even if we got a 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder back I'd still say it's overs.

Trading Dow or LoB is also nuts. Would happily part with McGovern though.

Seriously Saad is out of contract. It's a late first at best if we can split pick 7 for two 1sts. If we can't it's pick 27 or see you in the PSD.

If Saad ends up elsewhere as a result so be it.

I tend to agree if our first round ends up with Bombers, along with the 6 years we've given Williams, I won't have much praise for Austin. There's no skill involved in overpaying.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Plowman. Jones. Docherty.
Williamson. Weitering. Saad.
Walsh. Ed. SPS.
Martin. Charlie. Cuningham.
McGovern. Harry. Betts.
R. TDK. Cripps. Williams.
I. Fisher. Murphy. Casboult. Setterfield.
E. Newman. JSOS. Gibbons. Marchbank.

Next - Pittonet. Dow. L’Ob. Kemp. Stocker. Cottrell. Philp. Newnes. Macreadie.

 

[Brackets]

Reckon we have 18 players that would be in the majority of people's starting line up. I feel Betts, Casboult, McGovern and Cuningham would sit in the next grouping along with others.

For me, Newnes is a definite starter, and I'd also favour Marchbank and Jack. Betts or Gibbons for the last spot.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Reckon we have 18 players that would be in the majority of people's starting line up. I feel Betts, Casboult, McGovern and Cuningham would sit in the next grouping along with others.

For me, Newnes is a definite starter, and I'd also favour Marchbank and Jack. Betts or Gibbons for the last spot.

Some really tough choices in this exercise Brackets including whether TDK or Pitto is our #1 ruck and I am sure we all have different views and favourites.

And perhaps I went a little early that we get Saad across the line.

And who knows who pops up ... I want to see where Kemp sits and if Stocker can force his way in. That probably is the difference now IMO, the ‘kids‘ really have to earn it.

Looking forward to the Consensus 22.

 

[HARKER]

When Ed retires it will be a massive loss for us. We need to start finding a replacement ASAP! He will leave a bigger hole compared to Murphy, Kruezer, betts. Gives 110% every game and gets his job done

I see it similarly. At this point in time and given the roles of players, ECurnow is a lot more difficult to replace than for any of our other senior players.

We'll cover Kreuzer adequately, we'll cover Murphy's current role but will have to find a suitable replacement for Betts and then develop someone who'll be able to support either Pittonet or TDK, if we go into games with the one ruck.

We have do find or develop someone who can negate a key opposition mid, yet find the ball themselves. i.e. A very fit, hard and disciplined individual.
I don't think we have that player currently. Maybe we won't need one, but I think we will. Stocker? Cottrell?

This is why I wanted Viney and was thrilled abut the possibility of adding another FA to our list.
Not the flashiest of players but makes things so much easier for Petracca, Oliver and co. He would have been ideal for us. and it's little surprise to me that he finished higher than Oliver in their B&F, on the strength of the games I watched.

Out of contract 2020: Kennedy - Betts - Macreadie - Polson - Phillips - Owies - Moore
Out of contract 2021: JSilvagni - Murphy - O'Brien - Petrevski-Seton - Cripps - McKay - Kemp - Newman - Pittonet - Ramsay - ECurnow - Honey - Gibbon - Casboult - Cottrell

If McKay & Cripps do sign on shortly, we'll just about have nailed down all the 'must-haves'
There's no risk in Kemp going anywhere an if SPS is a must have, it will also get done. The rest will simply have to show something next year.

The point: The list is in a pretty stable position