List Mgmt. 2021 Draft picks: 4/33/75

[Deaneus!]

thanks to Lore as always

AFL Draft Pick Value Calculator - Draftguru

 

[Bearded Clam]

That's your opinion, clearly it's not shared by many but you've chosen your hill to die on so be it.

Your continued shitcanning of Ben Keays is getting quite tiresome, seems your trying to emulate some of the David Mackay haters with regard to Ben Keays.

I'm laughing too by the way.

You can laugh all you like and yes it is my opinion and several people here, if you go back to my original comment agree with it and ticked like..

my original comment was in response to Waynes world discussing petracca, Oliver and Bont and what players we at the crows have that are like these guys… and Hey Shorty repsonded with “ben keays”.. heres a screenshot for reference;


Now I’m sorry but its my opinion that saying ben keays is that type for us (and granted HS did also say “he doesnt have the finishing ability”) is utterly ludicrous..

Ben Keays isnt even in the same stratosphere as Oliver/Bont or petracca.

the overrating of ben on this board by a few is way over the top.. sure, he gives his all for the team… but his decision making and execution is poor at best 7 times out of every 10 that he has the ball in hand… you dont need to look at champion data stats to recognise this… you just need to watch ben play football. His ball use by hand and foot is all over the place… its just about anyone’s ****en guess what he’s gonna do with it when he gets it.

he’s a liability and he’s not the bloke to have if you want to win finals and GF’s..

like you say.. its my opinion.. happy for others to have a different opinion.

I just hope the youngsters we have like pedlar, shoey, berry and the midfield lad(s) we get in the next couple of drafts quickly overtake Ben for the sake of the teams future.

 

[DaKids]

You can laugh all you like and yes it is my opinion and several people here, if you go back to my original comment agree with it and ticked like..

my original comment was in response to Waynes world discussing petracca, Oliver and Bont and what players we at the crows have that are like these guys… and Hey Shorty repsonded with “ben keays”.. heres a screenshot for reference;

View attachment 1247197
Now I’m sorry but its my opinion that saying ben keays is that type for us (and granted HS did also say “he doesnt have the finishing ability”) is utterly ludicrous..

Ben Keays isnt even in the same stratosphere as Oliver/Bont or petracca.

the overrating of ben on this board by a few is way over the top.. sure, he gives his all for the team… but his decision making and execution is poor at best 7 times out of every 10 that he has the ball in hand… you dont need to look at champion data stats to recognise this… you just need to watch ben play football. His ball use by hand and foot is all over the place… its just about anyone’s fu**en guess what he’s gonna do with it when he gets it.

he’s a liability and he’s not the bloke to have if you want to win finals and GF’s..

like you say.. its my opinion.. happy for others to have a different opinion.

I just hope the youngsters we have like pedlar, shoey, berry and the midfield lad(s) we get in the next couple of drafts quickly overtake Ben for the sake of the teams future.

So hang on - in direct opposition to those blokes for Melbourne he had 2 goes

the first go he got 34 touches 2 goals and 7 tackles. Crows win. 1 Brownlow vote.

the second go he got 29 touches and 11 tackles for 2 Brownlow votes.

So against the top side against the best midfield the bloke gets 3 of a possible 6 Brownlow votes and gets leather poisoned so Crows go 1-1 v the premiers.

And he’s a liability? Ha ha ha

 

[Mutineer]

So hang on - in direct opposition to those blokes for Melbourne he had 2 goes

the first go he got 34 touches 2 goals and 7 tackles. Crows win. 1 Brownlow vote.

the second go he got 29 touches and 11 tackles for 2 Brownlow votes.

So against the top side against the best midfield the bloke gets 3 of a possible 6 Brownlow votes and gets leather poisoned so Crows go 1-1 v the premiers.

And he’s a liability? Ha ha ha

Game....Set.....Match.

And he didn't have big Maxy putting the pill down his throat either.

 

[DaKids]

Game....Set.....Match.

And he didn't have big Maxy putting the pill down his throat either.

I get a bit upset because I just don’t feel some people really understand where your talent level needs to be to just to get drafted to a list. Then to get a game and then finally to make a career. But then to be getting those numbers - that’s high end stuff my friend.

 

[Mego Red]

I'm talking top 10, that's where I have him on talent as well as the kind of player we should be bringing into the mix.

Fair enough - you've been very consistent where you rated him. I was more wondering about who you meant when you said "most are predicting".

 

[ltdamn]

What are our remaining obligations under the rules in regards to removing/adding/drafting players on or off our list?

 

[Bearded Clam]

So hang on - in direct opposition to those blokes for Melbourne he had 2 goes

the first go he got 34 touches 2 goals and 7 tackles. Crows win. 1 Brownlow vote.

the second go he got 29 touches and 11 tackles for 2 Brownlow votes.

So against the top side against the best midfield the bloke gets 3 of a possible 6 Brownlow votes and gets leather poisoned so Crows go 1-1 v the premiers.

And he’s a liability? Ha ha ha

Brownlow votes???…

Brownlow votes also point to Wines being a better player than Bont, Oliver and Petracca this year..

tells you all you need to know about using Brownlow votes to compare players..

 

[hey shorty]

You can laugh all you like and yes it is my opinion and several people here, if you go back to my original comment agree with it and ticked like..

my original comment was in response to Waynes world discussing petracca, Oliver and Bont and what players we at the crows have that are like these guys… and Hey Shorty repsonded with “ben keays”.. heres a screenshot for reference;

View attachment 1247197
Now I’m sorry but its my opinion that saying ben keays is that type for us (and granted HS did also say “he doesnt have the finishing ability”) is utterly ludicrous..

Ben Keays isnt even in the same stratosphere as Oliver/Bont or petracca.

the overrating of ben on this board by a few is way over the top.. sure, he gives his all for the team… but his decision making and execution is poor at best 7 times out of every 10 that he has the ball in hand… you dont need to look at champion data stats to recognise this… you just need to watch ben play football. His ball use by hand and foot is all over the place… its just about anyone’s fu**en guess what he’s gonna do with it when he gets it.

he’s a liability and he’s not the bloke to have if you want to win finals and GF’s..

like you say.. its my opinion.. happy for others to have a different opinion.

I just hope the youngsters we have like pedlar, shoey, berry and the midfield lad(s) we get in the next couple of drafts quickly overtake Ben for the sake of the teams future.

So you've taken me out of context......

He's a big bodied, strong ball winner with the ability to kick goals. Nowhere did I say he was in the same league as them.

The Bearded man and his disdain for Keays ability, in fact calling him a liability..... Is laughable

 

[GrommoT]

With Hawthorn in a similar draft position as Adelaide, also undertaking a rebuild, I found this to be a good little video, not that our resident BF draft watchers aren't insightful because they are.

Exec summary: Callaghan at pick 5, if not there then Gibcus, then Sinn, then Goater (a Will Day clone).

 

[Scorpus]

1) never said we would be playing in a GF in two years time.. my point was that if Keays is still one if our main mids in two years time that we’d be nowhere near a GF…
2) “Keays would easily be Melbournes 3rd best pure midfielder right now”…

WTF???… keays wouldnt even make the Dees 22.. Keays couldnt even make the Lions best 22, thats why they delisted him.

I’d have Brayshaw and Viney then a thousand years of daylight before Keays…

Edit: You can laugh at that all you like “Danger in Texas” but who out of that dees side on the weekend would you say Keays would take a spot in the 22 away from?..

Keays wouldn't get a starting midfield role in the Demons side, but he would be best 22.

Think he plays over Harmes or Neal-Bullen

 

[Bearded Clam]

Game....Set.....Match.

And he didn't have big Maxy putting the pill down his throat either.

Hahahaha… are you a teenager mutineer?.. i thats a childish comment..

this isnt a contest..

this is people presenting their opinions.. theres no winners and losers here and nothing that anyone has said has changed my opinion on Keays and nothing i’ve said has probably changed others opinions on keays.

I think keays, whilst a great team man who gives his all, isnt that great a footballer at AFL level…

A few of you guys obviously think otherwise..

Also you seem to have the same view of lairdy and sloane as you have of keays too mutineer because you stick up for them a hell of a lot on here…

my question to you is then..

given sloane, laird and keays got allotted 80% of the time in our midfield this season.. and they, especially Ben, are gun players in the same vein as Ollver, petracca etc etc.. how is it we finished down the arse end of the ladder?..
and our midfield is easily one of the worst in the comp?..

 

[Bearded Clam]

Keays wouldn't get a starting midfield role in the Demons side, but he would be best 22.

Think he plays over Harmes or Neal-Bullen

But the point I was responding to from Danger in Texas was “keays would be the dees 3rd best mid”…

 

[WaynesWorld19]

given sloane, laird and keays got allotted 80% of the time in our midfield this season.. and they, especially Ben, are gun players in the same vein as Ollver, petracca etc etc.. how is it we finished down the arse end of the ladder?..
and our midfield is easily one of the worst in the comp?..

That was this year .....our starting midfield in two years will be different

Sloane has been the liability this year, Keays hasn't .....and Keays remains our best lockdown mid ....his aeorobic capacity allows him to get into our defence and assist ....can also tag
Don't underestimate that role in any side

Can see Pedlar, Laird, and Schoenberg as our starting mids .....Crouch likely to be first rotation from the bench

 

[LoBu]

Exec summary: Callaghan at pick 5, if not there then Gibcus, then Sinn, then Goater (a Will Day clone).

Yeah, interesting they seem pretty sure that Adelaide is the biggest risk to Callaghan not being available at pick 5.

Also big wraps on North Adelaide's Hugh Jackson, the highlights of Hugh looked great as well.

 

[Mutineer]

Hahahaha… are you a teenager mutineer?.. i thats a childish comment..

this isnt a contest..

this is people presenting their opinions.. theres no winners and losers here and nothing that anyone has said has changed my opinion on Keays and nothing i’ve said has probably changed others opinions on keays.

I think keays, whilst a great team man who gives his all, isnt that great a footballer at AFL level…

A few of you guys obviously think otherwise..

Also you seem to have the same view of lairdy and sloane as you have of keays too mutineer because you stick up for them a hell of a lot on here…

my question to you is then..

given sloane, laird and keays got allotted 80% of the time in our midfield this season.. and they, especially Ben, are gun players in the same vein as Ollver, petracca etc etc.. how is it we finished down the arse end of the ladder?..
and our midfield is easily one of the worst in the comp?..

 

[Danger in Texas]

given sloane, laird and keays got allotted 80% of the time in our midfield this season.. and they, especially Ben, are gun players in the same vein as Ollver, petracca etc etc.. how is it we finished down the arse end of the ladder?..
and our midfield is easily one of the worst in the comp?..

It’s pretty simple - Laird and Keays are forced to play the role 1st and 2nd best midfielders in a group that lacks the variety and top end talent of, say, the Bulldogs or Demons

IMO Laird and Keays (at this point in their careers) are best suited as 3rd and 4th guys in a top line midfield - which is no slight on them, hell the Bulldogs centre bounce brigade goes five or six great midfielders deep. To say that Keays just doesn’t belong at AFL level is ludicrous, hell it’s likely he has improvement left in him, considering his age and games played

 

[Danger in Texas]

Keays wouldn't get a starting midfield role in the Demons side, but he would be best 22.

Think he plays over Harmes or Neal-Bullen

I’d take Keays over Viney any day, but each to their own

 

[Bearded Clam]

So… you dont want to answer the question then?.. would rather go the silly gif response instead.

and others here can also feel free to help you answer it..

I’ll repeat it..

sloane, laird and keays were our “go to” main midfielders this season.. 80% of the time this year they were the guns the club chose to attend the CB’s and lead our midfield.

So… where would you rate that midfield in the comp?..

Top 5?
Top 10?

you clearly rate them highly as you love to quickly attack, and “thumbs down” anyone who dares to question the abilities of these three lads.

Where do you see them in relation to all the other main midfield combos in the league?..

 

[Bearded Clam]

That was this year .....our starting midfield in two years will be different

Sloane has been the liability this year, Keays hasn't .....and Keays remains our best lockdown mid ....his aeorobic capacity allows him to get into our defence and assist ....can also tag
Don't underestimate that role in any side

Can see Pedlar, Laird, and Schoenberg as our starting mids .....Crouch likely to be first rotation from the bench

I’m just praying next year doesnt see more of the 80% of sloane/keays/laird with crouch thrown in giving even less opportunity to berry, our 1st rounder, pedlar and shoey..

sloane/keays/laird is a rubbish “go to” midfield combo.. one of the worst in the league..

people here can stick their heads in the sand, get all defensive about it and try their best to ignore these facts but the results speak for themself. We finished bottom 4.

we need Laird and a mix of berry, shoey, our 1st rounder, pedlar with sloane ****ed off out of there nearly all together and keays relieving laird not taking time away from the others..

crouch we shouldve allowed to take up a trade elsewhere.. we actually probably wanted him to but no one in the entire league was interested in him!… let that sink in.

 

[Golumless]

I’m just praying next year doesnt see more of the 80% of sloane/keays/laird with crouch thrown in giving even less opportunity to berry, our 1st rounder, pedlar and shoey..

sloane/keays/laird is a rubbish “go to” midfield combo.. one of the worst in the league..

people here can stick their heads in the sand, get all defensive about it and try their best to ignore these facts but the results speak for themself. We finished bottom 4.

we need Laird and a mix of berry, shoey, our 1st rounder, pedlar with sloane f’ed off out of there nearly all together and keays relieving laird not taking time away from the others..

crouch we shouldve allowed to take up a trade elsewhere.. we actually probably wanted him to but no one in the entire league was interested in him!… let that sink in.

I think we all are, seeing Schoenberg showed he was ready to be a full-time midfielder. That kid has more talent then Laird/Keays who are both more support pieces.

Does Berry have a talent level that exceeds Keays? That I'm not too particularly sure on. Both are destined to be defensive midfielders in any set-up and both are likely fighting for the same position. Keays is also a rather high bar to cross. Inevitably we're going to find out, as Berry seemingly is a favourite of Nicks and Keays can also double as a half-forward flanker, though it is probably 2ish years away.

There is more to a football side than its midfield, and looking at our squad, it's pretty clear why we finished bottom four (though, it's probably an unlucky bottom four finish considering we were a 7 win team), and why a lot of optimism around where we'll finish in 2022 is rather misplaced. After all, we are carrying a lot of kids and will be again next year.

Really when it comes to our 2022 midfield we're looking at probably starting with:

Laird, Keays, Crouch being the main three, with Schoenberg and Sloane and Berry being the fourth/fifth midfielders. The hope is by the end of the year we're talking Schoenberg, Laird, Keays with Crouch, Berry, Pedlar as our 6 main options. Pedlar is going to be a slow burn, and I doubt who we draft this year with pick four factors into our 2022 midfield group. 2023 on the other hand, they may.

crouch we shouldve allowed to take up a trade elsewhere.. we actually probably wanted him to but no one in the entire league was interested in him!… let that sink in.

Probably a half-truth, seeing we gave a contract that should have pushed him out, yet the league didn't bite. So now, we've got Matt Crouch seemingly on a very team-friendly contract for the next 2 years.

Eh, a bit of luck never goes astray.

 

[Scorpus]

I’d take Keays over Viney any day, but each to their own

I see them as about the same and I don't think Melbourne would bother swapping them. Keays a bit more offensive, Viney a bit stronger at contested work

 

[Mego Red]

Yeah, interesting they seem pretty sure that Adelaide is the biggest risk to Callaghan not being available at pick 5.

Also big wraps on North Adelaide's Hugh Jackson, the highlights of Hugh looked great as well.

It's was a good quality video but I can't workout who they think GWS and GCS are taking to leave Callaghan there.

 

[DaKids]

Seeing some talk from the watchers about GWS needing a key back, maybe Gibcus. Could he go that high based on need? Could that explain why Crows looking at GC pick 3? Would leave either Jason or Finn available depending on North.

 

[Crow till I die]

Seeing some talk from the watchers about GWS needing a key back, maybe Gibcus. Could he go that high based on need? Could that explain why Crows looking at GC pick 3? Would leave either Jason or Finn available depending on North.

Well, if we had looked to trade up to the GWS pick - no doubt pick 4 would still work well for them BUT - fresh from Hately last year and the cost for them to trade from pick 6 to 4, they would have asked a kings ransom for pick 2 from us (probably more that they would want from any other club just to spite us if they were not fussed on trading the pick)

Will GWS go for another mid at that pick as you'd think best available says they should, but where do they play them as they are chock full of mids to give game time too

 

[Bearded Clam]

I think we all are, seeing Schoenberg showed he was ready to be a full-time midfielder. That kid has more talent then Laird/Keays who are both more support pieces.

Does Berry have a talent level that exceeds Keays? That I'm not too particularly sure on. Both are destined to be defensive midfielders in any set-up and both are likely fighting for the same position. Keays is also a rather high bar to cross. Inevitably we're going to find out, as Berry seemingly is a favourite of Nicks and Keays can also double as a half-forward flanker, though it is probably 2ish years away.

There is more to a football side than its midfield, and looking at our squad, it's pretty clear why we finished bottom four (though, it's probably an unlucky bottom four finish considering we were a 7 win team), and why a lot of optimism around where we'll finish in 2022 is rather misplaced. After all, we are carrying a lot of kids and will be again next year.

Really when it comes to our 2022 midfield we're looking at probably starting with:

Laird, Keays, Crouch being the main three, with Schoenberg and Sloane and Berry being the fourth/fifth midfielders. The hope is by the end of the year we're talking Schoenberg, Laird, Keays with Crouch, Berry, Pedlar as our 6 main options. Pedlar is going to be a slow burn, and I doubt who we draft this year with pick four factors into our 2022 midfield group. 2023 on the other hand, they may.



Probably a half-truth, seeing we gave a contract that should have pushed him out, yet the league didn't bite. So now, we've got Matt Crouch seemingly on a very team-friendly contract for the next 2 years.

Eh, a bit of luck never goes astray.

“There is more to a football side than its midfield, and looking at our squad, it's pretty clear why we finished bottom four (though, it's probably an unlucky bottom four finish considering we were a 7 win team), and why a lot of optimism around where we'll finish in 2022 is rather misplaced. After all, we are carrying a lot of kids and will be again next year.”

I believe our defense and forward line are pretty bloody good to be honest..

our defense has some great moving parts including doedee, butts, murray, brown, (who I rate more than some around here).. yesmacasey is a bit of a worry. But frampton looks good as a break glass option. But defenders are pretty easy to come by.

our halfback line has multiple options and is hopefully adding an elite player into the mix in the coming weeks.. and I’m loving what Jones is bringing.

We had the comps best wingman this year and another in sholl who, whilst he tired in the scond half of the season was enormous in the first half.. highest mtrs gained by any player in the comp.. burgess will help.

our hf/forward line has some great pieces.. mchenry inproved immensly this year.. fog got better and better as the year progressed and will be another that will benefit from burgess. TT will be a gun.
We probably need a small xfactor forward… but all of this looks pretty bloody good considering the utterly horrid delivery it had to put up with from our midfield of which sloane, keays and laird were the main culprits.. improve the delivery and watch this forward line start to flourish

seriously.. these three lads got 80-90 possessions a game between them.. they have no trouble getting their hands on the ball.. the problem is what they do with the bloody thing.. most of the time its b-grade shite. And barely ever is it damaging to the opposition.

kick and hope helicopter sky balls that do our forwards absolutely no favours whatsoever is what laird and keays provide more often than not.

but we have some promising youngsters that need to be given more of a run in the middle.. but this bullshit conservative approach that sees us stick to the steady as she goes keays/laird/sloane preferred crap just needs to stop.