Analysis 2021 trade thread

[davemc_lions]

I don't quite get the notion of why we need a mature ruck / forward until Hipwood gets back.

I don't recall Hipwood rucking much.

We are going to be very tight for spots as is. I certainly wouldn't want to be using one for a short term fix.

Who do you think is out there that genuinely presents as a clearly superior option to Fullarton for next year?

Of the teams above that you have posted, I'd only really consider Gawn / Jackson and Lycett / Ladhams as superior to our ruck setup of Big O & whoever he's paired with. Would love to get someone like Ladhams to our club, was thinking that last year too. Not easy to attract a second string ruck from another club to move to your club to once again be a second string ruck though is it?

Very easy to see the grass being greener. Not sure it is.

not a short term fix need a mature backup ruck
Need someone more mature then Fullarton
We not playing Archie in front of Fullarton so you get both needs in one player

 

[BrisVegasDru]

Hipwood coming back and having any significant impact in 2022 is a long shot imo and we should be prepared for that.

Cant agree more his injury was worse than Cams, and my basketball following mates reckon it takes the tall lanky types longer to recover from acl injuries. Combine that with the athletic nature of the way he played, reckon we need to steel ourselves for a season without him.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don't quite get the notion of why we need a mature ruck / forward until Hipwood gets back.

I don't recall Hipwood rucking much.

You're missing the point. We need one because sending Joe to the ruck wastes his energy and robs the forward line of his presence.

We are going to be very tight for spots as is. I certainly wouldn't want to be using one for a short term fix.

We can cut enough players to have one veteran coming in and still draft the required number of players. There's nothing wrong with using a list spot on a short-term player if they fill a need.

Who do you think is out there that genuinely presents as a clearly superior option to Fullarton for next year?

Practically any player with a mature body who can take a contested mark and ruck. Vardy, Cox and Casboult are all superior options to Fullarton right now for the role we need filled.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Ummm, I believe there’s a lot of research being done by club recruiting departments on rate of improvement.

Of course there are a lot of other factors that combine with rate of improvement. A players biometrics and athletic traits, growth rate/spurt, birth month, if a kid has come from a multi sport background and is now focusing solely on football, etc.

There’s a lot of research done in the States on this topic, of course they’re looking at other sports, but the principals would be the same.

Ignoring the condescension, I'm sure there's a lot of analysis being done and probably the odd PhD or eight being done. But has there a scientific consensus been reached in the world of Australian Football? I would very much doubt it.

 

[dlanod]

Did you know the Hawks tried to trade in Longer from the Saints, however the Saints wanted to keep Longer and offered McEvoy. How crazy is that

Not quite - Longer was never on the Saints at the same time as McEvoy, so that timeline doesn't work. Hawthorn was the main club linked to Longer on his way out until the Saints stepped in, offered McEvoy to the Hawks, and turned around and offered us peanuts for Longer. Saints definitely chose Longer over McEvoy, but it was impossible for them to be trading Longer to the Hawks.

 

[Nunez]

Not quite - Longer was never on the Saints at the same time as McEvoy, so that timeline doesn't work. Hawthorn was the main club linked to Longer on his way out until the Saints stepped in, offered McEvoy to the Hawks, and turned around and offered us peanuts for Longer. Saints definitely chose Longer over McEvoy, but it was impossible for them to be trading Longer to the Hawks.

Oh true. So long as the story still involves the Saints screwing up I'm happy

 

[briztoon]

Ignoring the condescension, I'm sure there's a lot of analysis being done and probably the odd PhD or eight being done. But has there a scientific consensus been reached in the world of Australian Football? I would very much doubt it.

Sorry The Flying Belgian, there definitely wasn’t any condescension directed towards you.

 

[mpal6]

Cant agree more his injury was worse than Cams, and my basketball following mates reckon it takes the tall lanky types longer to recover from acl injuries. Combine that with the athletic nature of the way he played, reckon we need to steel ourselves for a season without him.

Makes sense us trying to get a first ruck and sort of showed interest in Briggs. Will release Oscar forward and BigO next to Daniher/McStay would be pretty formidable.

We should still keep trying Payne/Andrews as swingmen next year so we have depth in this tall forward area. Otherwise it'll be again back to one injury to another tall forward and the cupboard is bare. Almost thinking McStay can go into this swingmen rotation so we have more magnets that can switch between forward and defense arcs.

 

[jackess]

Makes sense us trying to get a first ruck and sort of showed interest in Briggs. Will release Oscar forward and BigO next to Daniher/McStay would be pretty formidable.

We should still keep trying Payne/Andrews as swingmen next year so we have depth in this tall forward area. Otherwise it'll be again back to one injury to another tall forward and the cupboard is bare. Almost thinking McStay can go into this swingmen rotation so we have more magnets that can switch between forward and defense arcs.

Until the ball hits ground level and then we're screwed

 

[mpal6]

Until the ball hits ground level and then we're screwed

That's why we have Oscar there, he'll just mark it. It'll never hit the ground !!

On a pragmatic note, we're wedded to that three tall forward line setup and will see it through for at least 1 more year. Hence take the good with the bad.

 

[BangyBangy]

So, now that Birch has retired, who do you think the new whipping boy will be in 2022?

 

[jackess]

That's why we have Oscar there, he'll just mark it. It'll never hit the ground !!

On a pragmatic note, we're wedded to that three tall forward line setup and will see it through for at least 1 more year. Hence take the good with the bad.

Works ok because McStay is good at ground level and Hipwood can run all day. Not sure playing Oscar down there will help much

 

[mebevan]

I think we need to address 2 areas and exploit another.

1. Midfield. Not sure if we can fill this in with other listed players or need to look outside. The way footy is going is you need fast hard youth that can run hard and win contested footy then kick quick balls into the forward line. I think we still need that strong body on the inside. I think this is where the CEY thinking was but i think we need more speed. This may have been where the thinking was for putting Rayner closer to the ball before he got hurt. Perhaps we could look at a combo of Rayner, Matho, Robbo, Dev to fill this but we need a more hardened speed player on the inside.

2. BigO backup. I like Fullarton and I think he is getting better with each game. We need to harden him up in preseason. Get some skill coaches in to get him using his body more. Get some psych coaches getting his head in a more aggressive frame. He looks too nice to me. Needs some mongrel. Would look to get another more experience ruck option in just to cover for 1 year.

3. Play 'Fagans Paddock'. With a fit forward line we have some real power there. We need to send daniher and mcStay high up the half forward flank. Joe hopefully taking marks close to the 50 that he can slot and mcStay quickly moving the ball on. We then need to slingshot it in quickly to charlie and mcCarthy who should have a more open 50. Linc is easily the best set shot so try to hit him up on the chest and charlie when we need to get ball to ground and he can chase it down. To be fair we have played this strategy a bit. Will give the mids a good marking outlet to the wings.

 

[mpal6]

So, now that Birch has retired, who do you think the new whipping boy will be in 2022?

Midfielders that won't run both ways consistently and help defend the opposition spread - Bailey, Neale etc. We can beat all teams up to bottom half of top 8 using our scoring power, but to beat the top end we need effort across the board.

 

[mpal6]

Works ok because McStay is good at ground level and Hipwood can run all day. Not sure playing Oscar down there will help much

Daniher was at his best when he led up the ground and was able to launch it from 60-70m. BigO will be easily a better mark at goal square than Fullarton. More importantly it gives Charlie the space within F50 at ground level.

Daniher may not have the running power of Hipwood but I feel this structure can work too.

 

[jackess]

Daniher was at his best when he led up the ground and was able to launch it from 60-70m. BigO will be easily a better mark at goal square than Fullarton. More importantly it gives Charlie the space within F50 at ground level.

Daniher may not have the running power of Hipwood but I feel this structure can work too.

Oscar being in the goal square won't give Charlie more space

 

[jackess]

I don't think we need a second ruck.

1. Our current midfield setup gets the ball forward often enough to give us an opportunity to kick goals. I don't think playing Fullarton or Joe or even McStay hurts our midfield that much.

2. Our forwardline is the best in the AFL. I don't want to throw off the structure by playing an immobile ruckman down there.

 

[mattsmob]

If Fullarton is only rucking 10-15% of gametime is it really that detrimental? If Fullarton is replaced by some of the veteran names getting thrown around we may have a marginally better ruck for a small percent of gametime but for the rest of the game we’re at a disadvantage around the ground. And if we’re bringing someone in specifically to crash a pack then we’re setting the bar very low.

 

[chopperduck]

Probably worth remembering that Starcevich still only averaged 12 disposals a game for us this year. He is not a conduit out of defense and whilst he might improve that side of his game he still remains primarily a defense first and second player. I want to improve the defensive side of our defensive unit but I think we need to consider the offensive side as well.

Agree with this. I am wondering though with Birch now gone on whether we can turn his spot into a more offensive type defender position.

 

[JasRulz63]

So, now that Birch has retired, who do you think the new whipping boy will be in 2022?

I suspect it'll be back to Lester.

 

[Dalions]

I suspect it'll be back to Lester.

NNOOOO!!!

 

[bungalow_bill]

I suspect it'll be back to Lester.

If Fullarton plays it will be him for sure,at least for a few on here

 

[morsie]

not a short term fix need a mature backup ruck
Need someone more mature then Fullarton
We not playing Archie in front of Fullarton so you get both needs in one player

Fullarton is a conundrum.He is a talent but is a talent in search of a position.I would try and turn him into a Tom Lynch (Adelaide model ) running cetre half forward.I dont think he is ever going to be adequate as a ruckman unless he can play like Luke Jackson.

 

[chopperduck]

Bringing in a player as injury cover for 1 year is about the dumbest list management decision I've heard. It makes, 0 sense. You would need someone good enough to make it worth while, but it is just an injury cover so you don't want to be paying them much. Also the person needs to be happy to move interstate for a 12 month contract. Better off just making do with what we have, put more development time into Fullerton.

 

[chopperduck]

Starc moving to midfield... why. Why would you take someone who is an AA quality small defender and try put them into a position they are entirely unproven in. Whoever replaces him in the backing probably does a worse job, and he probably does a worse job in the middle then if you just went after another actual mid.

Continue to develop his back half game and get him a bit more dangerous with the ball. He doesn't need 25 touches a game. If he averages 12, try push this upto about 15 without losing his defensive output. Imagine being a forward, being shut out of the game and your opponent gets like 15 touches and involved with 3 or 4 scoring chains... that is complete domination.