Player Watch 2022 AFL National Draft Discussion - read the pinned post

[Strapping Young Lad]

National AFL draft Monday November 28(first round only).
All other selections to be held on Tuesday November 29.
The pre-season and rookie drafts will then take place at 3pm (AEST) on Wednesday November 30.

 

[hawkinoz]

You can’t exactly say we’ve given up nothing while claiming players that haven’t pulled on a jumper or played a handful of games are players who will play 100+ games for us.

Would I like to have given up less? Sure, but that’s the price you pay to move up. Hopefully our gamble pays off and Weddle is a serious player and McCabe goes in the first round next year.

There’s no exact science here. Just got to hope the club gets it right.

Only makes sense if you are going to use what you saved up for something better. I said this before, the bummers were looking to trade 22 and F2 earlier for Sydney's pick 17 and there were no bites. Surely 24+f2 is not enough for 15, hence we added an F3( one which will get used up by McCabe).

People looking at this as just points should see if packaging our next 2 picks 36 & 48 (704pts) can give them pick 30(629 pts). 99% clubs won't make that trade. Same here and this is Round 1 talent.

Looks like we have picked him to play as a utility and he has the profile for it. Well worth it.

Now use 36 for Lemmey or Gallagher and 48 for D'Aloia or Dowling or Van Ees

 

[H00t]

Some context for our pick trade. Geelong gave up Pick 38, 48, 55 a future second and a future fourth for Pick 25 that they used to trade for Bruhn. I'm not at all unhappy to pay what we did for Weddle who we were clearly set on.

Depending on where we finish vs where Geelong finish we paid a bit more than they did.

Ultimately I’d prefer to have given the dogs F2 and then I’d be very happy. But it’s the way it is, you have to give something to get something.

Weddle comes on and it’s well worth the risk.

 

[KermitJagger]

Depending on where we finish vs where Geelong finish we paid a bit more than they did.

Ultimately I’d prefer to have given the dogs F2 and then I’d be very happy. But it’s the way it is, you have to give something to get something.

Weddle comes on and it’s well worth the risk.

We paid a bit more and got a bit more, for a player with an almost guaranteed higher ceiling. Too early to judge the trade imo.

 

[theiaofseed]

Worst case scenario we gave up Pick 27 for nothing, who cares we got the kid we wanted and clearly rated. You can't put a price on cluster of young talent coming together.

 

[Gollum]

Now use 36 for Lemmey or Gallagher and 48 for D'Aloia or Dowling or Van Ees

I think there is a good chance Keeler falls to 36, which would be a bargain, I really like the look of him

 

[Khmerhawk]

We have some fairly random posters coming in here and venting, take a breath and relax, future picks can always be brought forward and if our pick is so good next year (19/20) we will have pick 1 or 2 likely getting Reid/Duursma/Watson/A .Reid +McCabe next season
Get another mid tommorow + Vickery and we are good

Do we really want the name Vickery ever associated with the HFC ever again ?

 

[kenneje]

Cannot state enough how highly I think of the two trades MM pulled off tonight.

I was really disappointed at the end of the trade period when we had moved on a large amount of talent/leadership and not added a first round pick, but the list management team have gone to work and pulled it off.

Weddles skill set and athletic profile can only be found in the first round of the draft. Someone said a more athletic version of Brandon Maynard, and I love that.

We still have a pick in the 30s, and any future second round pick we had/have will be used on McCabe.

 

[Since 2001]

36.
COBY BURGIEL
Position: Midfielder-forward

Size: 183cm, 76kg
Or
MITCH SZYBKOWSKI

Position: Midfielder

Size: 186cm, 84kg

48.
JASON GILLBEE

Position: Utility

Size: 191cm, 77kg

Clubs: Bendigo Pioneers/Balranald/NSW-ACT/Allies

Or
ADAM D‘ALOIA

Position: Midfielder

Size: 186cm, 86kg

Clubs: Woodville-West Torrens/Henley/SA

 

[Judd2Sewell]

You say he plays in a role we already have plenty of players and yet…..you wish you knew more about him.

Guess what - he is 192cm / 92kgs (already) and frankly……..he has the ability to negate an opponent AND attack.

We actually don’t have many players who can do that in our team. They either lock down only, or they play way too loose.

About time we got a few more who can actually do both.

Yes, I wish I knew more about what position(s) he used to play - was he always a backman? Did he play in the midfield or on a wing previously? Could he play as a HFF?

Where does he see himself playing in the future?

What I did know was he played as backman that played multiple roles, both tall and small, etc. Roles that overlap with all of Day, Scrimshaw, Sicily, CJ, Frost, DGB, Hardwick, Impey and Morris.

Tall, quick, competitive, line-breaking, excellent athletes that are great kicks are exciting and are a rare mix. I see that he has these tools that recruiters love. On paper it's everything we all love in a player.

You've seemingly taken my post as some sort of insult or criticism of the deal, which it's not.

The move just poses some interesting questions about where all these guys - well the established names anyway - will all fit in once Weddle works his way into the side. Which is why I said I wanted to know more about him.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

One thing I think the Weddle pick up does is put DGB on notice as I have them basically competing for the same spot (Full Back).

Not a bad thing as I reckon DGB needs some internal competition to bring out his best (he has definetly been gifted some games the last two years).

I doubt it puts DGB on notice, i think were planning for life after frosty. Weddle could also grow a little taller yet.

 

[Alite]

Yes, I wish I knew more about what position(s) he used to play - was he always a backman? Did he play in the midfield or on a wing previously? Could he play as a HFF?

Where does he see himself playing in the future?

What I did know was he played as backman that played multiple roles, both tall and small, etc. Roles that overlap with all of Day, Scrimshaw, Sicily, CJ, Frost, DGB, Hardwick and Morris.

Tall, quick, competitive, line-breaking, excellent athletes that are great kicks are exciting and are a rare mix. I see that he has these tools that recruiters love. On paper it's everything we all love in a player.

You've seemingly taken my post as some sort of insult or criticism of the deal, which it's not.

The move just poses some interesting questions about where all these guys - well the established names anyway - will all fit in once Weddle works his way into the side. Which is why I said I wanted to know more about him.

Judd2Sewell: all good. I had no idea about Weddle either…he was not on my radar… or ANY Person in this chats Radar

 

[Alite]

I doubt it puts DGB on notice, i think were planning for life after frosty. Weddle could also grow a little taller yet.

Weddle will initially be a Wingman!

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

2021 Josh Ward and C Macdonald
2022 C MacKenzie and Josh Weddle
2023 .......

So our next pick has to be a Sam or a Butler? Lol

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Judd2Sewell: all good. I had no idea about Weddle either…he was not on my radar… or ANY Person in this chats Radar

chopflop and Davo-27 might disagree with you there.

 

[Notsoyabby]

MacKenzie said above that they see Weddle moving up the ground, and that he could play wing.

I remember a member of our Team of the Century stared his career on the wing before moving into the back line.

If he can be half as good as Langers, take it and run with it!

 

[Alite]

chopflop and Davo-27 might disagree with you there.

Ned, forget what others think… say what you think

 

[dermott]

Getting two first round selections was a great achievement by our much maligned (by some on here) list manager, and still leaves us with a second and third round pick in this draft.
Weddle has terrific potential and will be well worth the bold move we made.
Finally I find it highly amusing that some of the resident pessimists have described the All Australian full back and NAB team of the year centre half back, a “half back flanker.” Cringeworthy stuff.

 

[burger09]

I'm going with 'We nailed it'.

2 first round picks who look as close you can get to guaranteed AFL players + pick 36.

If we trade 2024 future picks next year into the 2023 draft 1st or 2nd round, it will have been a brilliant piece of rebuild fast track, list turnover under Sam.

 

[Hazardinho]

How do we tell him?

 

[HedgeFund]

I was expecting a defender, someone with flexibility to swing to the forward line would be better, if you see Cam's draft mock had us taking that type of player with pick 27. I just cannot under why we could not have picked that player with pick 27 instead of giving up so much.

Giving up so much?

What? We move up the draft 9 positions (which so many people on here were sooking a month ago that we didn’t do) by trading more picks.

Which future player did we actually give up?

 

[dermott]

View attachment 1563427
How do we tell him?

I sounds as if Buddysbiggestfan should have moved to Sydney along with Buddy. “Half back flanker” Lol.

 

[HedgeFund]

Getting two first round selections was a great achievement by our much maligned (by some on here) list manager, and still leaves us with a second and third round pick in this draft.
Weddle has terrific potential and will be well worth the bold move we made.
Finally I find it highly amusing that some of the resident pessimists have described the All Australian full back and NAB team of the year centre half back, a “half back flanker.” Cringeworthy stuff.

Couldn’t agree more.

Full Back
Josh Weddle (Victoria Metro/Oakleigh Chargers/Eltham)
Date of Birth: 25/05/04; Height: 192cm; Weight: 89kg
Rock solid in defence in all matches for Victoria Metro. His intercept marking, strength one-on-one and dash from the back half are features of his game. Averaged 15 disposals, four marks, three tackles and four rebound 50s per game in an impressive Championships.

If Sicily is to expected to move further up the ground, this is the guy who could ultimately fill that slot.

It’s about time the coaches put the acid on our glut of HBFs to move forward and start contributing between the arcs.

Don’t just leave it to the new kids straight out of u18s

 

[threesixpio]

Hi Jazzfan , just thought I'd repost my thoughts from the West Coast draft thread on why I rate Mackenzie so high on here, due to Hawthorn having a very good chance of selecting him. So see below eight arbitrary categories that I have created for considering a midfielder draftee that I analysed from "Youtube and news articles" expertly to form my opinion.

Ball winning - Congestion and stoppage extraction (8/10)
This one is hard to fully assess due to Mackenzie having an altered role from his NAB League role to his role at Champs level (with Ashcroft, Hotton, Sheezel, Tsatas, Pascu, Petric, Drury etc rotating through the Metro midfield). Simply put, Mackenzie wasn't asked to crash packs at the highest level this year so it wasn't what you'd call a "feature" of his game. However, Mackenzie does display a good amount of upper body strength and has an inclination to raise the ball high in a tackle to keep his arms free for the quick handball should he get tackled.

Also, Mackenzie is very good at one-touching the ball, be it in congestion or with the ball on the ground he rarely fumbles. Due to this his ability to collect the ball below his knees is fantastic for somebody his size. He is also excellent at hitting the right spot of congestion at pace resulting in a clean clearance

A couple of examples of Mackenzie's ability in relation to congestion and stoppages are:
1. Vic Metro v SA 2nd quarter, 7 minutes, 12 seconds to go - Ball is thrown in on the forward flank. Mackenzie takes the ball expertly whilst in the air, lands, steadies and hits the danger spot at the top of the square. This immediately results in a Drury goal for Metro.
2. Vic Metro v SA 4th quarter, 14 minutes, 5 seconds to go - Bounce in the centre square, ruckmen jostle and the ball bounces on the back end of the centre circle line. Mackenzie manoeuvres around a lunging Barnett and takes the ball cleanly (one touch) at pace. Taking only a couple of paces to balance himself and rotate himself towards the Metro goal he kicks to about 45m out where Jefferson competes in a marking contest.
3. Vic Metro v WA 1st quarter, first play of the day - the ball is bobbling and skidding on the ground. Mackenzie swoops and kicks the ball up with one-touch and kicks the ball forward under pressure.
4. Vic Metro v WA 1st quarter, 11 minutes, 20 seconds to go - Mackenzie receives the ball on the wing in transition and shrugs his hips throwing a WA player off demonstrating superior upper body strength.
5. Vic Metro v WA 4th quarter, 22 minutes, 10 seconds to go - a WA player drops the ball in a tackle. Mackenzie pounces on it, evades a WA tackler swings around and delivers perfectly to a teammate on the wing.

6. Vic Metro v WA 3rd quarter, 15 minutes, 40 seconds to go - a loose ball is bouncing in Metro's forward 50m. Mackenzie beats three Country players there (including Hollands and Hustwaite) and spins through them with ease getting out a clean handball and setting a teammate up for a shot on goal.

7. NAB League GF - Sandringham Dragons v Dandenong Stingrays 2nd Quarter, 2 minutes in - ball in on the forward part of the wing. Mackenzie hits the drop of the tap at pace and is able to send the ball deep inside 50 for a scoring opportunity.

Transition to the Outside (9/10)
Whilst not being lightning quick Mackenzie has a large stride and a step of pace which helps give him the ability to create space on the peripherals of congestion. Now he does not have the top speed of Tsatas, Burgiel or Humphrey but he's better than average and, unlike Allan or Ginbey, it really is noticeable in a match. He makes opponents look slow.

Mackenzie also has the uncanny ability to slow down time in traffic and just generally has impeccable decision making ability about both where to run and how to dispose of the ball.

1. Vic Metro v SA 4th quarter, 3 minutes to go - Clarke makes the ball on the forward flank and provides the overlapping handball to Mackenzie who had followed the play which had transitioned from SA's forward line. Mackenzie kicks around the body while being corralled and hits Hotton cleanly about 35m away. Hotton goals.
2. Vic Metro v WA 1st quarter, 2 minutes, 57 seconds to go - Mackenzie collects the loose ball on the wing breaking a lame Dewar tackle. He handballs backwards to Clarke as Dewar is pursuing him. Clarke givens back to Mackenzie (who is free due to a great shepherd from another teammate, possibly Weddle), Mackenzie shuffles back waiting for a moment for the play to develop. At this stage he is at WA's forward flank. Two players (including Jones) try to corral Mackenzie. Mackenzie gives a lovely looping handball to three free Metro teammates further ahead (due to too many WA players being drawn to Mackenzie with the ball). Not satisfied with that Mackenzie accelerates forward past Jones and gets a further handball receive and kicks long to Metro's forward flank to a legitimate two-on-two. This example reflects Mackenzie's ability to navigate well in traffic and make excellent decisions under pressure.
3. Vic Metro v Allies 2nd quarter, 5 minutes, 17 seconds in - Ball up on the wing. The ball rolls towards the centre square. Mackenzie notes that his teammate Kizan is going to be first to the ball and proceeds to break towards goal. Kizan handballs to Mackenzie who streams forward and then loops a handball over his Allies opponent to Drury for a clean i50 and a Davey goal.

4. NAB League GF - Sandringham Dragons v Dandenong Stingrays 1st Quarter, 15 minutes and 40 second in - Mackenzie gets the clearance from a clean tap and handballs to a teammate. He follows up after his clearance and is further involved in the chain on the forward 50 running hard to remain part of the play.

Ball use (9/10)
The best ball user of the midfield contingent this year Mackenzie not only has a fantastic kicking action but, more importantly he weighs the ball to perfection. Often teammates

Now that's not to say his disposal is perfect, he is prone to the odd shank. However, in general his kicking is so sublime that hack kicks are a rarity and do not detract from his otherwise exemplary disposal. And it's not just his kicking either. His handballs are phenomenal in traffic. He often waits rather than just disposing of the ball for the game to unfold and more options to present themselves.

There are many, many examples of Mackenzie's absolutely elite ball use but here are some of the best:
1. Vic Metro v Vic Country 2nd quarter, 17 minutes, 30 seconds to go - the ball is looped from a Metro defender out of their back 50m arc. Mackenzie receives the ball accelerates forward and then loops his own handball wide to Ashcroft. Ashcroft returns him the ball with a handball over Hustwaite. Mackenzie is now streaming to the point of the centre square. He kicks what BT would describe as a "lot belter" which would barely go above two metres in the air for its whole 45m journey. Mackenzie's kick is so pin point perfect that Jefferson can't help but take the mark on his chest 40m from goal in the pocket despite Reid being only one step behind him to the fall of the ball.

2. Vic Metro v Vic Country 2nd quarter, 3 minutes, 20 seconds to go - Mackenzie receives a handball in the back 50. Rather than simply kicking down the centre Mackenzie casts a glance laterally and goes 50m across ground to a free teammate. Metro march the ball down the field and Clarke goals.
3. Vic Metro v Vic Country 3rd quarter, 8 minutes, 10 seconds to go - Mackenzie collects a handball at the centre circle, turns and weighs a 35m kick to a teammate with the ball travelling just over the outstretched arm of Cadman and a further Country player sitting behind the Metro player. Had the kick been anything different than what it was it would've almost certainly resulted in a turnover.

For other examples check out his full games against Vic Country, the NAB League Grand Final against the Singrays and his round 10 game against the Jets in full.

Scoreboard impact (4/10)
At the Champs he had limited direct scoreboard impact (i.e. goals he kicked himself), however, he is frequently involved in score chains and with his elite disposal is the player that you want kicking the ball into your forwards.
There's no question about capacity, it seems like this year might more reflect a lack of opportunity. With the attributes he has, given the right environment I think that he will become a player who does hit the scoreboard regularly. Still you have to assess the player on what they have produced, not on what they are capable of producing. Hence the lower score for this attribute.

1. NAB League Round 10 - Sandringham Dragons v Western Jets 2nd Quarter, 9 minutes in - probably Mackenzie's best play of the year. He takes the ball cleanly off the ruck contest, arcs towards goal, handballs over his looming Jets opponent, collects the ball again, handballs forward to Ashcroft, follows the ball into the Dragons forward 50, where he receives a handball and eeks out a kick from 40m between two Jets defenders for a goal.

2. Vic Metro v WA 3rd quarter, 8 minutes to go - Mackenzie is on a turnover chain from a Metro turnover from a WA kick out. He shows a burst of speed to accelerate away giving himself enough space to get balanced and banana around the body from 40m and sink the goal.

3. Vic Metro v Allies 2nd quarter, 6 minutes and 30 seconds in - Metro break from the centre bounce and Mackenzie is on the end of a well-weighted Ashcroft handball and bursts from the square to the forward 50m arc. He kicks long to a one-on-one in the goal square which Sheezel takes on his chest and converts.

4. NAB League GF - Sandringham Dragons v Dandenong Stingrays 1st Quarter, 12 minutes and 20 second in - Mackenzie is in space about 40m out. He receives a quick fire handball from a teammate and curls a goal from 40m out.
5. NAB League Round 1 - Sandringham Dragons v Oakleigh Chargers 2nd Quarter, 10 minutes 20 seconds in - Mackenzie marks the ball 47m out from a Clarke kick around the body. Probably about a 40 degree angle. He swings out to open up on his right foot and sinks it from the 50m arc.

Marking (6/10)
His natural height of 188cm obviously helps in regard to his counterparts and whilst there are other midfielders who are taller (i.e. Phillipou, Hustwaite, Allan, Ginbey) and better marks than Mackenzie when called to he is happy to throw his weight around. Note that I wouldn't suggest that his marking exceeds his height (ala Hotton, Hewett, Sheezel or Konstanty whose marking ability belies their shorter statures) nor is he in any way a marking midfielder like Fyfe, Cripps or Bontempelli but he rarely loses a contest or fumbles a mark either. I will preface my analysis that Mackenzie rarely had to compete for a mark in the various games I saw. He either was causing havoc at the clearances or marking uncontested in transition.

1. Vic Metro v Allies 2nd quarter, 40 seconds in - Mackenzie competes in a one-v-one with an Allies player in a marking contest. Even though he doesn't take the mark Mackenzie recovers far quicker than his opponent and is able to collect at ground level and get the handball off.
2. NAB League Prelim Final - Sandringham Dragons v Gippsland Power - 2nd quarter 2 minutes and 40 seconds in - Mackenzie (having been involved on the back flank pushes forward for a floating kick around the body. Mackenzie climbs high over two players and takes an important grab. He immediately plays on, handballs forward to Clarke and the ball eventually ends with Sheezel who goals from the goalsquare.

Tackling (7/10)
May not have the intensity that you see from say a Hewett, but he just sticks his tackles.

1. Vic Metro v WA 2nd quarter, 17 minutes, 55 seconds to go - Hewett pounces on the ball and Mackenzie bear hugs him immediately stopping the ball being released. Given Hewet''s strength prowess Mackenzie stops him without any difficulty.

2. Vic Metro v WA 2nd quarter, 12 minutes, 25 seconds to go - Jones has the ball in the centre and seeks to stream down the field. He tries to step around Mackenzie (given his speed). However, Mackenzie is having none of it, pulling him to the ground and winning a free kick for holding the ball.

3. Vic Metro v Allies 2nd quarter, 21 minutes, 20 gone - Mackenzie lays a tackle in congestion on an Allies player and dispossesses him. The ball is collected by another player that Mackenzie immediately tackles and brings to the ground.

Endurance (8/10)
I'm not sure how he tested at the Combine (or if he did test), however, Mackenzie has demonstrated no issue with maintaining a similar output and level all game. He also is a player consistently on the move and will be running forward or back with the play, regardless of whether his teammates utilise his availability.

Not really any specific examples of this. Simply watch any of his games and how he runs them out in the fourth quarter.
I know that Hollands is the benchmark here and while Mackenzie wouldn't be the equal of him on the track there's very little real difference on the field that I can see between them.

Ability to Read the Play (8/10)
As well as being a committed two-way runner Mackenzie displays an aptitude to place himself in the right space around the contest for when the ball comes out.

(on the right) (at the back towards the umpire)

This reminds me of Shuey in his heyday when he would be very strategic about having a direct corridor to goal from the stoppage to enable him to best utilise his pace for a clearance. This is in contrast to a strong inside mid (who doesn't necessarily have to think as tactically about his placement due to the particular attributes he will be using).

Some examples:
1. Vic Metro v WA 3rd quarter, 14 minutes, 20 seconds to go - Mackenzie reads the tap in the centre circle to perfection and releases Ashcroft for an inside 50 for Metro.
2. Vic Metro v WA 3rd quarter, 11 minutes, 40 seconds to go - Mackenzie collects wonderfully off the loose ball from the ruck tap on the forward flank and kicks inside forward 50.
3. Vic Metro v WA 4th quarter, 9 minutes, 30 seconds to go - Mackenzie receives an Ollie Hotton handball from the bounce down congestion and streams with two bounces through the middle of the ground for a kick inside 50.

So here's hoping Hawthorn don't take him tonight (although we're almost as likely to let him slide past our pick anyway).

You’re welcome anytime here. Awesome post

 

[Blackhawk42]

Feel better hearing McKenzie say that they view Weddle as a utility and that our draft board will change tonight with list needs in mind.

Surely it's another mid and a smaller mid/fwd but time will tell. I know we've been linked Keeler but I'm still a bit iffy on his physicality.

 

[TylerDurden]

Liquid gold by the Swans.