2022 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

[HedgeFund]

Of course Chad has won matches for us.

Which ones?

 

[FB19]

To me Chads value is far more off field than on. Not just the earlier points re repairing the image hit from the racism scandal, but mentoring our forwards with Breust. Despite losing Gunston we still have 2 elite forwards (argue chad is a fwd/mid) who have so much to offer Brockman Moore Butler Serong O’Sullivan - maybe Seamus, Ned long, Kosi as well. I think regardless of playing status he should stay with us next year, even if mainly focused on a mentoring role given the large experience gap we currently have. In 2 years our list profile will be more reasonably balanced and hopefully we have multiple small to medium forwards playing high quality football in part due to their guidance.

 

[Gut Runner]

Chad was already declining before he left port, it was a horrendous trade and he hasn't turned it around since he has arrived at Hawthorn.

He used kick 40 - 50 goals at Port and mark the ball. Hardly ever takes a grab now and can't get on the park.

 

[Gut Runner]

To me Chads value is far more off field than on. Not just the earlier points re repairing the image hit from the racism scandal, but mentoring our forwards with Breust. Despite losing Gunston we still have 2 elite forwards (argue chad is a fwd/mid) who have so much to offer Brockman Moore Butler Serong O’Sullivan - maybe Seamus, Ned long, Kosi as well. I think regardless of playing status he should stay with us next year, even if mainly focused on a mentoring role given the large experience gap we currently have. In 2 years our list profile will be more reasonably balanced and hopefully we have multiple small to medium forwards playing high quality football in part due to their guidance.

That's what coaches are for.

There are good blokes getting de-listed every year.

 

[Hawk Hawkins]

Hardwick is not going forward.

What if we move Rough to CHB?

 

[KermitJagger]

Which ones?

There was a 4 week period at the end of 2021 where he was arguably our best afield in 3 wins and 1 draw, he was also our highest rated player for that season and had the third highest overall involvement in team score behind Toby Greene and Taylor Walker, and ahead of Christian Petracca. At the start of 2020 he had 9 goals across 3 of the first 4 games, all wins. I reckon he'd be the first to say he hasn't been at his best consistently at the Hawks but to claim he hasn't won any games for us is nonsense.

 

[FB19]

That's what coaches are for.

There are good blokes getting de-listed every year.

Sorry but that to me is not how people learn in a work environment. We all have multiple influences outside the direct line of responsibility and more often people seek more peer advice than reporting line. I’m not saying he stays only for that he must earn a list spot as a foundational expectation. I’m simply highlighting that in the event he does perform well enough on field, his contribution could be far more significant than this thread had considered so far.

 

[HedgeFund]

There was a 4 week period at the end of 2021 where he was arguably our best afield in 3 wins and 1 draw, he was also our highest rated player for that season and had the third highest overall involvement in team score behind Toby Greene and Taylor Walker, and ahead of Christian Petracca. At the start of 2020 he had 9 goals across 3 of the first 4 games, all wins. I reckon he'd be the first to say he hasn't been at his best consistently at the Hawks but to claim he hasn't won any games for us is nonsense.

Two strong months of footy (18 months apart) over 4 seasons where you kick a couple of bags of 3 goals in wins for your team……doesn’t equate to being a “match winner” as a player.

He may have been the difference in a 4 point win over North in rd 4 of 2021 (scores were 58 - 54) as his 3 goals proved to be the biggest haul and had he not kicked them, we would’ve lost.

That’s about it as far as I can tell.

Upshot is, if he doesn’t improve on 2022, then Sam will move him on one way or the other. Nothing more certain.

 

[smish]

Did some digging and saw we announced McEvoy as captain on 28 Jan. Hopefully we announce it a bit earlier this year, like most of us I expect Sic to be a certainty.

I think this will be the case until the next group of lads are ready. Obvious choices early are Moore, Lewis. Can anyone lucky enough to get down to training advise of who else is quite vocal on the track?

 

[Sixpence]

Sic it's the obvious choice, wouldn't be surprised if it's Lewis though.

 

[KermitJagger]

Two strong months of footy (18 months apart) over 4 seasons where you kick a couple of bags of 3 goals in wins for your team……doesn’t equate to being a “match winner” as a player.

He may have been the difference in a 4 point win over North in rd 4 of 2021 (scores were 58 - 54) as his 3 goals proved to be the biggest haul and had he not kicked them, we would’ve lost.

That’s about it as far as I can tell.

Upshot is, if he doesn’t improve on 2022, then Sam will move him on one way or the other. Nothing more certain.

You asked for matches he won, I gave you em.

 

[cryptor]

Sic it's the obvious choice, wouldn't be surprised if it's Lewis though.

Yep. It's Sicily time for sure. He's got the seniority and experience (both in games and captain exp) while still definitely being part of the Sam Mitchell plan given his contract extension this year.

Vice-captain is the interesting one...

I reckon we'll do co-vice-captains with Lewis and Moore. Then a leadership group of other emerging captain options like CJ, Morrison, Day, Newcombe, etc. who will be given a bit more opportunity to work on all the off field captain stuff.

 

[TylerDurden]

Did some digging and saw we announced McEvoy as captain on 28 Jan. Hopefully we announce it a bit earlier this year, like most of us I expect Sic to be a certainty.

I think this will be the case until the next group of lads are ready. Obvious choices early are Moore, Lewis. Can anyone lucky enough to get down to training advise of who else is quite vocal on the track?

Agree. Mid Jan would be about right for mine.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Yep. It's Sicily time for sure. He's got the seniority and experience (both in games and captain exp) while still definitely being part of the Sam Mitchell plan given his contract extension this year.

Vice-captain is the interesting one...

I reckon we'll do co-vice-captains with Lewis and Moore. Then a leadership group of other emerging captain options like CJ, Morrison, Day, Newcombe, etc. who will be given a bit more opportunity to work on all the off field captain stuff.

Pretty much bang on how I see it unfolding.

Considering he's already been part of the leadership crew before, I'd love to see Worpel have an improved season on field as well as being part of a new look leadership group.

 

[burner1]

It’s an interesting 12 months for chad. We’re in full development mode and he’s a 29 year old injury prone small forward/mid. His best is very very good but hasn’t performed as consistently well as we would have hoped at the hawks.

Breust and Moore are locks for the forward line. If we want to fasttrack butler/brock and keep McDonald on hff rotation not a heap of room for chad - particularly if he’s not 100% fit. We also have a heap of guys to run through midfield. Is he happy playing secondary roles like Mitchell and JOM did?

If he’s fully fit and in form then plays - but if he’s a bit down on fitness or form then it will get interesting to see what we do in such a big development year.

I’d rather we kept pumping games into McDonald and butler/brock and chad can come in/out of side if we’re really struggling and subjects for form fitness of the younger guys.

 

[Dewnior]

Did some digging and saw we announced McEvoy as captain on 28 Jan. Hopefully we announce it a bit earlier this year, like most of us I expect Sic to be a certainty.

I think this will be the case until the next group of lads are ready. Obvious choices early are Moore, Lewis. Can anyone lucky enough to get down to training advise of who else is quite vocal on the track?

Sic was a shoe in when he turned his back on free agency.

I just hope the extra responsibilities don't affect his footy. They shouldn't given his maturity and temperament.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sicily will be announced Captain end of January, from what I’m told.

 

[Brant]

Sicily will be announced Captain end of January, from what I’m told.

Future Captain, then?

 

[KermitJagger]

Future Captain, then?

In Sicily's case...

 

[TheFourPillars]

Midfield is a work in progress still going to be a mess. It will take a bit of time for us to build this midfield possibly 1 or 2 seasons being optimistic

 

[burner1]

Midfield is a work in progress still going to be a mess. It will take a bit of time for us to build this midfield possibly 1 or 2 seasons being optimistic

Yep. Not many of any opposition midfields we would be favoured to beat in 2023. The talent is hopefully there but not the senior experience and probably not the cohesion. Just need to see signs of potential and progression in 2023 and find a way to be competitive enough that we can work on our game plan.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Midfield is a work in progress still going to be a mess. It will take a bit of time for us to build this midfield possibly 1 or 2 seasons being optimistic

Forward line is a concern for me
We only have 1 consistent key forward in Lewis
Losing Gunston hurts us big time

Question marks over Kosi, Serong and Greene for me leaves us shockingly thin unfortunately

 

[KermitJagger]

Forward line is a concern for me
We only have 1 consistent key forward in Lewis
Losing Gunston hurts us big time

Question marks over Kosi, Serong and Greene for me leaves us shockingly thin unfortunately

One consistent key forward is still one more than most teams in the league to be fair. The midfield is a much, much bigger issue.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Forward line is a concern for me
We only have 1 consistent key forward in Lewis
Losing Gunston hurts us big time

Question marks over Kosi, Serong and Greene for me leaves us shockingly thin unfortunately

Yeah we do need Kosi to come good and someone like Brockman with Wingard and Moore it should be sufficient for the time being

 

[bigmaxi]

Forward line is a concern for me
We only have 1 consistent key forward in Lewis
Losing Gunston hurts us big time

Question marks over Kosi, Serong and Greene for me leaves us shockingly thin unfortunately

Bruest being a small key forward