List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and Trading Thread - Part 2

[Scorpus]

Updated list position



And 2024 as it stands

Spoiler

 

[Sanders]

He’s slipped only two places in Twomey’s rankings (realistically the most connected ‘draft expert’) in the last two months?

I’d barely say he’s descending greatly beyond the highest expectations, from a public perspective

Twomey is only reliable a week out.

But out of curiosity, where is the great hope ranked currently?

Before or after the Bowes giveaway line?

 

[CROW in BALI]

Is Cox playing KPD .....or 3rd Tall Role ?

Mostly, I see his positioning as being more pocket / flank ......happy to be wrong though ?

 

[Crowked]

To move someone to the rookie list, do effectively delist them and then re-list them as a rookie?
So with Strachan, we risk someone poaching him while delisted? If so, why not delist Crouch and hope someone poaches him!
If we do this with a contracted player, do we have to pay out the salary? Then pay them again as a rookie? Do we have to pay them out if someone poaches them?

 

[Vader]

youve cracked it

at the end of this year if he gets a contract, any contract we will get some compo, any compo whereas nobody was prepared to trade for him

this explains the two years!

He got a 2-year contract, because that's the default, and there was no reason to give him a longer or shorter contract. There's literally nothing to explain, and it certainly has nothing to do with FA compensation - noting that he was already a FA when we signed him to that 2021 contract.

 

[Vader]

How does a team that hasn't played finals for 5 years, and hasn't been above 14th for the last 3, have a "list squeeze"?

FFS - how many times does it need to be explained to you?

 

[1990crow]

Pedlar was pick 11 and Rachelle was top 5.

We need both of those to succeed.

Pedlar was a half forward in his draft year, and Rachele a small forward.

 

[Sanders]

FFS - how many times does it need to be explained to you?

Just once that makes sense

*Crickets

 

[1990crow]

Yep, understand where you're coming from .....although some on this list are continually panned by supporters (Taranto, LDU, Parish, McCluggage) .....and I'm not seeing Anderson as "elite"

We haven't drafted that bigger, high talented Mid, as you're saying .....opting for Thilthorpe / Rachelle / Rankine

IMO though, there's more than one way to develop a team .....and it looks increasingly, that we're adopting a RICH style build .....lots of smaller, pressuring players, not a lot of big name players

I'm not suggesting any of our current crop wont become A grade mids (I think Soligo and Rachele could), but the fact is to miss finals five years in a row and not end up with a prospect like above is disappointing.

 

[Vader]

Don't think the Club would pull a trade pick swap, unless they're very convinced the player would get to that pick .....and the talent order is still a moving beast

Which is truly a bizarre thing, given that the season is done & dusted, and the players can no longer do anything significant to change the way the recruiters see them.

** Yes, I know they still have interviews & the draft camp, but I doubt these things change much from what the recruiters already know.

 

[Jetafl]

I'm not a mosquito expert but our list management team are.

 

[Vader]

And the problem is? Salary cap? Not really an issue.

Or we don't elevate Strachen to the main list.

We don't have any choice. Strachan is contracted for 2023, and he's already maxxed out his time on the rookie list.

The only alternative is to delist him, and hope to re-draft him in the RD - noting that there's a 99% probability of us being gazumped if we were stupid enough to try it... leaving us with ROB, TT & Berg as our only ruck options. This is a monumentally stupid idea.

 

[Vader]

To move someone to the rookie list, do effectively delist them and then re-list them as a rookie?
So with Strachan, we risk someone poaching him while delisted? If so, why not delist Crouch and hope someone poaches him!
If we do this with a contracted player, do we have to pay out the salary? Then pay them again as a rookie? Do we have to pay them out if someone poaches them?

There are two options...

Firstly, there's the delist/re-draft option. Strachan stands a 99% chance of being poached. Seed or Crouch, considerably lower. There are no contract/salary implications (other than being able to exclude part of their salary from the cap), provided we re-draft them. If someone gazumps us, then we have to pay the difference between their 2023 AFC contract, and whatever contract they sign with their new club.

Secondly, there is a window for moving players from the senior list to the rookie list - but it's between the ND and RD. We can't use this window to create senior list vacancies for extra ND selections. As far as I can tell, this window is only useful for clubs going with a 37/5 or 36/6 list structure - not 38/4 as we appear likely to be in 2023.

 

[Mutineer]

And the problem is? Salary cap? Not really an issue.

Or we don't elevate Strachen to the main list.

Well he can't stay on the rookie list can he?...his 4 year's has expired.

 

[Mutineer]

There are two options...

Firstly, there's the delist/re-draft option. Strachan stands a 99% chance of being poached. Seed or Crouch, considerably lower. There are no contract/salary implications (other than being able to exclude part of their salary from the cap), provided we re-draft them. If someone gazumps us, then we have to pay the difference between their 2023 AFC contract, and whatever contract they sign with their new club.

Secondly, there is a window for moving players from the senior list to the rookie list - but it's between the ND and RD. We can't use this window to create senior list vacancies for extra ND selections. As far as I can tell, this window is only useful for clubs going with a 37/5 or 36/6 list structure - not 38/4 as we appear likely to be in 2023.

99% of being poached? WOW!

 

[Slippery Pete]

Just once that makes sense

*Crickets

Here you go:

Best case scenario for Stengle right now is this:

• Ordered to clear out his locker and never show his face at the club again,
• Continues to receive a weekly salary deposited into his bank account
• AFC agrees to sign a release form, allowing him to play in an amateur competition.

The alternative is the same scenario, but without the salary (a result of having his contract terminated due to "serious or repeated misconduct").

 

[Anzacpaul]

Here you go:




View attachment 1539234

I mean Vader wasn't wrong, if he stayed at the crows he wouldn't be winning a premiership.........

 

[GreyCrow]

Do you want to turn 18 yo players over after 2 years ?

Do we need to factor in list balance / positional balance ?

All the Club has done, realistically, is taken minimal picks in a "thin" Draft .....other Clubs have traded out of this years Draft

Problem is ....people get seduced by all the pre-draft hype on draftee's ....and think we're missing out, by holding a "dud" player

Wasn't long ago, people were happy to delist / trade Fogarty .....Oh of course, no-one will admit to that now

You gotta give some time to young players to develop .....will Moose fall again to injury, or will 2023 be his year to breakout ? ......we all have diverse opinions on players

I think the argument or discussion people want is around 'list management '

That should always mean you have ideas and plans around what you like on your list , what you think might become available and what would it mean to no sign contracts until after you look at the landscape

Do I think Poulter is a need. No but I would like to be able to assess our need without worrying we might miss out on Max

There are a handful of players who could have waited 2 weeks from now to re-sign. If we choose not to add Poulter then we sign them up

There is no flexibility of thought in our LM

 

[George Kramer]

FFS - how many times does it need to be explained to you?

Vader on the ball again

 

[Vader]

99% of being poached? WOW!

You think it's less than that? A ruckman who has proven himself to be competent at AFL level, and a draft that every club is trading out of as quickly as possible?

** Note that he couldn't just nominate for the PSD, as our objective is to select him in the RD. There's every chance he gets picked late in the ND, if not before our pick in the RD. 99% is probably an under-estimate.

 

[George Kramer]

You think it's less than that? A ruckman who has proven himself to be competent at AFL level, and a draft that every club is trading out of as quickly as possible?

For once I agree with Vader. For a club needing a back ruck and with a list spot, he would be a no brainer.

 

[Mutineer]

You think it's less than that? A ruckman who has proven himself to be competent at AFL level, and a draft that every club is trading out of as quickly as possible?

I do but it's not happening unless they see Thilthorpe more as a ruck than a forward which personally I'd be very disappointed with. Strachan is a depth option wherever he plays.

 

[Scorpus]

For once I agree with Vader. For a club needing a back ruck and with a list spot, he would be a no brainer.

They could offer a better contract as well (more years) to get it done, like with Greenwood. Might not even reach the draft, could just be a DFA

 

[Dangarman]

There are two options...

Firstly, there's the delist/re-draft option. Strachan stands a 99% chance of being poached. Seed or Crouch, considerably lower. There are no contract/salary implications (other than being able to exclude part of their salary from the cap), provided we re-draft them. If someone gazumps us, then we have to pay the difference between their 2023 AFC contract, and whatever contract they sign with their new club.

Secondly, there is a window for moving players from the senior list to the rookie list - but it's between the ND and RD. We can't use this window to create senior list vacancies for extra ND selections. As far as I can tell, this window is only useful for clubs going with a 37/5 or 36/6 list structure - not 38/4 as we appear likely to be in 2023.

So if we can't upgrade Butts and Strachan prior to the ND, then won't we have a 35/5/2 structure going into the draft with three main list spots spare? We have to take at least 3 selections including rookie upgrades. So call someone new at our two picks, upgrade Strachan, then it takes us to 38/4/2.

Isn't the period between the ND and RD also when you can push players from the senior to rookie list directly? Then we simply downgrade whoever so we can elevate Butts. Has the following been changed for this year?

 

[Carmo]

I do but it's not happening unless they see Thilthorpe more as a ruck than a forward which personally I'd be very disappointed with. Strachan is a depth option wherever he plays.

What if they go to this 5 player on the bench / likely to run 2 ruckmen system?

 

[Vader]

So if we can't upgrade Butts and Strachan prior to the ND, then won't we have a 35/5/2 structure going into the draft with three main list spots spare? We have to take at least 3 selections including rookie upgrades. So call someone new at our two picks, upgrade Strachan, then it takes us to 38/4/2.

Isn't the period between the ND and RD also when you can push players from the senior to rookie list directly? Then we simply downgrade whoever so we can elevate Butts. Has the following been changed for this year?

View attachment 1539307

OK... so I have looked into this a bit further - and found this article:
Sign and Trade Period dates

Specifically, the timeline for 29 November (the 2nd day of the draft):

Tuesday 29 November

• Continental Tyres AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 NAB AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

It appears that the AFL has changed things around significantly. Previously, rookie upgrades occurred in the List Lodgement before the ND. As of 2022 (possibly 2021), they happen between the ND and RD.

This changes everything...

While I was aware of the window for moving players from the senior to the rookie list (and noted it in the post you quoted), I didn't realise that rookie upgrades occur in the same window.

This means that we will be able to take 3x selections into the ND. We will likely use 2, and pass on the 3rd. Then, between the ND and RD, we will upgrade Butts & Strachan, and downgrade another player (probably Crouch or Seedsman). There is no need to delist any additional senior list players.

*** Interestingly, there's no mention in that timeline of the window for moving players from the senior list to the rookie list, as noted in the other media release.