Analysis 2023 - Best 22

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I wouldn't mind being accused as a curmudgeon. Sounds cool!!

you have a long way to go young scamp.

bedford and I are the undisputed curmudgeons around here.

I am delighted to learn we are ‘cool’.

 

[rustycrate]

you have a long way to go young scamp.

bedford and I are the undisputed curmudgeons around here.

I am delighted to learn we are ‘cool’.

I'm trying!!

 

[hairy biker]

That is what I want to be!!

Oh please, we all know you'd be a bloody disaster.

You'd be halfway through your first text book and you'd be all
wouldn't it be nice if Mr Scrooge went to his nephew Fred's for dinner after giving him the biggest turkey ever
wouldn't it be nice if Mr Scrooge could help poor crippled Tiny Tim and his family or worse of all you'd be
wouldn't it be nice if Mr Scrooge gave to the poor.

Unfortunately rustycrate I fear the life of a curmudgeon is not for you.

 

[rustycrate]

Oh please, we all know you'd be a bloody disaster.

You'd be halfway through your first text book and you'd be all
wouldn't it be nice if Mr Scrooge went to his nephew Fred's for dinner after giving him the biggest turkey ever
wouldn't it be nice if Mr Scrooge could help poor crippled Tiny Tim and his family or worse of all you'd be
wouldn't it be nice if Mr Scrooge gave to the poor.

Unfortunately rustycrate I fear the life of a curmudgeon is not for you.

I know.
We (boys) all grow up wanting to be a fire engine.
Then we enter the real world.

 

[rustycrate]

I know.
We (boys) all grow up wanting to be a fire engine.
Then we enter the real world.

Curmudgeon sounds good on your resume though

 

[rustycrate]

I have made some substantial changes to the list that I have published occasionally this year.
There are about 5 substantial changes.
Most of what you have seen this year has been retained enhanced.
But there are lots of nice things added.
The list will be published weekly after the teams are announced every Thursday.
You will all love it. I do. I would like to give you a glimpse, but I don't want other teams to catch up.
I looks great!!

I have already thought of another great enhancement. I will include it.
In a few years it will be greater.

 

[Punts]

My opinion but can’t see buddy lasting , getting beat regularly will do his head in and if he is trying to be the old buddy then the teams head in and structure.

Hicky , Reid , buddy and ladhams imo can’t play in the same side

Geez it’s bare for kF on our list

We have to chase someone , relying on McLean and amerty is laughable. Even Logan needs to step up this year and cement a spot

Be going out and for once spending money this trade period

 

[rustycrate]

My opinion but can’t see buddy lasting , getting beat regularly will do his head in and if he is trying to be the old buddy then the teams head in and structure.

Hicky , Reid , buddy and ladhams imo can’t play in the same side

Geez it’s bare for kF on our list

We have to chase someone , relying on McLean and amerty is laughable. Even Logan needs to step up this year and cement a spot

Be going out and for once spending money this trade period

Always the glass half full man.

At least I know where up is.

We are not bare as you say.
We have
1. Buddy for one year
2. Some young gun from WA who is unbelievable
3. McLean is tall and enthusiastic and competitive
4. Amartey is tall and has great moments. Is the heir apparent to Reid but not according to Beetson.

Not sure what you are worried about.

I forgot about rucks.
Hickey is 58 but still going well according to his wfie.
Ladhams is still suspended but is enthusiastic about playing for Sydney.
Stretch is eyeing off so many games he has to be jolted back to reality.

Like I said, nothing to worry about.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Always the glass half full man.

At least I know where up is.

We are not bare as you say.
We have
1. Buddy for one year
2. Some young gun from WA who is unbelievable
3. McLean is tall and enthusiastic and competitive
4. Amartey is tall and has great moments. Is the heir apparent to Reid but not according to Beetson.

Not sure what you are worried about.

I’m a little bit with Punts here (erring on the side of curmduggery perhaps), but:

1. Buddy is no longer an A-grader
2. McLean is (very) limited
3. Armatey hasn’t come on

Only Logan really instills confidence in me.

Reid remains critical. And that’s not great, given his age and injury profile.

 

[SeanM]

I think we will get through the season with a combination of the 5 key forwards playing bit part roles. But the transition away from Franklin as the focus of our attack was going to happen at some point.

I don't feel we can directly replace him and structure our attack around a new star key forward. In the next few seasons we will probably rely a bit more on our small/medium forwards and midfielders for goals. And have our tall forwards play their role and chip in with a few goals. Rather than be expected to dominate each week.

 

[rustycrate]

I think we will get through the season with a combination of the 5 key forwards playing bit part roles. But the transition away from Franklin as the focus of our attack was going to happen at some point.

I don't feel we can directly replace him and structure our attack around a new star key forward. In the next few seasons we will probably rely a bit more on our small/medium forwards and midfielders for goals. And have our tall forwards play their role and chip in with a few goals. Rather than be expected to dominate each week.

We hopefully have a new key forward just about signed for 2024. It is a bit of a worry.

 

[rustycrate]

I’m a little bit with Punts here (erring on the side of curmduggery perhaps), but:

1. Buddy is no longer an A-grader
2. McLean is (very) limited
3. Armatey hasn’t come on

Only Logan really instills confidence in me.

Reid remains critical. And that’s not great, given his age and injury profile.

I thought that is what I said. Nothing to worry about (Putin).

 

[caesar88]

Five things I predict will have happened by the end of season 2023:

1. Ladhams will have overtaken Hickey in the ruck pecking order.
2. Rowbottom will have overtaken Mills as our best player.
3. Gulden will be averaging 40%+ CBAs.
4. T. McCartin will be in All Australian contention.
5. All of Paddy, Blakey, Fox & Florent will finish top 10 in the B&F.

One thing I hope will have happened by the end of season 2023:

1. The Big Macs (Hayden & Logan) will be cemented in the best 22's forward line.

 

[SGBeach]

Five things I predict will have happened by the end of season 2023:

1. Ladhams will have overtaken Hickey in the ruck pecking order.
2. Rowbottom will have overtaken Mills as our best player.
3. Gulden will be averaging 40%+ CBAs.
4. T. McCartin will be in All Australian contention.
5. All of Paddy, Blakey, Fox & Florent will finish top 10 in the B&F.

One thing I hope will have happened by the end of season 2023:

1. The Big Macs (Hayden & Logan) will be cemented in the best 22's forward line.

1.. Agree, Ladhams will (or at least should) overtake Hickey
2.. Disagree, Rowbottom is an extremely good role player.. He played the role as defensive midfielder this year (like what was asked of Hewett before him) but has the ability to kick goals and attack when the opportunity shows itself.
Mills is the everywhere midfielder.. He can clear the ball, run both ways, defend in the midfield, drop back as the spare in defence, attack and kick goals. Mills is every coaches dream! He absolutely deserves the loooong contract extension he got. I'd be happy to bet a case of beer that he'll finish top 5 in the b&f for the next 5 years (and win it at least twice).
3.. disagree, Mills, Rowbottom, Warner & Parker will continue the bulk of cba's. Horse likes to rotate a few through there (just to keep the oppo on their toes) including Paps, Heeney and the wingers. I reckon - at best - Gulden is a couple of years away from your prediction.
4.. Absolutely!
5.. hmmm, not sure about that one

Hope...
I reckon Amartey has a bigger upside than McLean.
I would hope that Amartey has an injury free run at it, and pulls his finger out and looks to McLean to learn from his work ethic

 

[SGBeach]

I think we will get through the season with a combination of the 5 key forwards playing bit part roles. But the transition away from Franklin as the focus of our attack was going to happen at some point.

I don't feel we can directly replace him and structure our attack around a new star key forward. In the next few seasons we will probably rely a bit more on our small/medium forwards and midfielders for goals. And have our tall forwards play their role and chip in with a few goals. Rather than be expected to dominate each week.

yep, Heeney, Hayward and Paps are all very capable of kicking 40+ goals in a season.. Thats not too bad a place to be.
and well supported by the mids and whoever is playing tall up forward

Logan still has a couple of years to mature (as a key forward)
An Injury free Reid (yeh right,, when has that happened?) is bloody good for another couple of years
McLean (IMO) offers only depth
Amartey needs to pull his finger out (or something)
then theres Paddy Mac - Im still not convinced he'll play out his career in defence?????
And as Rusty said, 'We hopefully have a new key forward just about signed for 2024.

Beatson said 'we'd be more active in the next trade period'... I cant imagine us chasing an inside or outside mid, or running half back, small forward, ruck, small defender.. Can only think Beatson is talking about a key forward

But, trying to read Beatsons mind is near impossible

 

[caesar88]

1.. Agree, Ladhams will (or at least should) overtake Hickey
2.. Disagree, Rowbottom is an extremely good role player.. He played the role as defensive midfielder this year (like what was asked of Hewett before him) but has the ability to kick goals and attack when the opportunity shows itself.
Mills is the everywhere midfielder.. He can clear the ball, run both ways, defend in the midfield, drop back as the spare in defence, attack and kick goals. Mills is every coaches dream! He absolutely deserves the loooong contract extension he got. I'd be happy to bet a case of beer that he'll finish top 5 in the b&f for the next 5 years (and win it at least twice).
3.. disagree, Mills, Rowbottom, Warner & Parker will continue the bulk of cba's. Horse likes to rotate a few through there (just to keep the oppo on their toes) including Paps, Heeney and the wingers. I reckon - at best - Gulden is a couple of years away from your prediction.
4.. Absolutely!
5.. hmmm, not sure about that one

Hope...
I reckon Amartey has a bigger upside than McLean.
I would hope that Amartey has an injury free run at it, and pulls his finger out and looks to McLean to learn from his work ethic

1. Glad we agree on something! It will be up to Ladhams himself how well he performs.

2. I was not knocking Mills. As I said, he is currently our best player. You can't get higher praise than that. I think Rowbottom was our best player in the last ten weeks of the season, in the best Swans team I've seen play since at least 2017. Our coaches and in fact this very board's votes back this up. Therefore if he can apply it to say twenty weeks of the season, as Mills did this year, I think he'd be our best player. I don't think there's a more impactful Swan when he's on. So it is less a knock on Mills as a player and more a testament to how bullish I am on Rowbottom.

3. I was not saying Gulden would be in our top 4 mids for CBAs. If that were the case I'd have said he'd have 50%+. I think above 40% would be a decent amount for a young player and X-factor mid we are gradually trying to introduce to the inside brigade.

4. Another thing we agree on!

5. Paddy & Blakey were outstanding this year, but their quiet games cost them a top 10 finish. Another year of experience for them could iron out those inconsistencies. Florent already finished top 10 this year and I'd expect him to do so again. Fox is the only one I'd have doubts about, given Horse hasn't always shown him love, but if he can be BOG in a grand final, then he can be a top 10 player in the B&F for us. Horse loves defence!

As for Amartey and McLean... well, we may just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

yep, Heeney, Hayward and Paps are all very capable of kicking 40+ goals in a season.. Thats not too bad a place to be.
and well supported by the mids and whoever is playing tall up forward

Logan still has a couple of years to mature (as a key forward)
An Injury free Reid (yeh right,, when has that happened?) is bloody good for another couple of years
McLean (IMO) offers only depth
Amartey needs to pull his finger out (or something)
then theres Paddy Mac - Im still not convinced he'll play out his career in defence?????
And as Rusty said, 'We hopefully have a new key forward just about signed for 2024.

Beatson said 'we'd be more active in the next trade period'... I cant imagine us chasing an inside or outside mid, or running half back, small forward, ruck, small defender.. Can only think Beatson is talking about a key forward

But, trying to read Beatsons mind is near impossible

You do not listen or read particularly well. Paddy has made clear his preference to play down back is to reduce the risk of head knocks. He is the last player to be a KPF in our team.

 

[Punts]

Always the glass half full man.

At least I know where up is.

We are not bare as you say.
We have
1. Buddy for one year
2. Some young gun from WA who is unbelievable
3. McLean is tall and enthusiastic and competitive
4. Amartey is tall and has great moments. Is the heir apparent to Reid but not according to Beetson.

Not sure what you are worried about.

I forgot about rucks.
Hickey is 58 but still going well according to his wfie.
Ladhams is still suspended but is enthusiastic about playing for Sydney.
Stretch is eyeing off so many games he has to be jolted back to reality.

Like I said, nothing to worry about.

McDonald isn’t unbelievable atm come on.

He hardly got near it the last 6 weeks , some not even getting a touch for half’s

I hope he becomes a solid absolute star but he isn’t atm

 

[SGBeach]

You do not listen or read particularly well. Paddy has made clear his preference to play down back is to reduce the risk of head knocks. He is the last player to be a KPF in our team.

you're very likely right, and Paddy will never play forward,, Im just saying I'm not 100% convinced

We recruited Francis - who the bombers threw around everywhere and has also said he wants to settle into one position down back. Theres also Gould, who I got the impression that the Swans were keen to debut late last year.
And, not that it means much, but Paddy was moved forward during the Granny.

Ive heard the medicos say He has no greater chance of being concussed than any other player.. and as his confidence grows (2-3 concussion free seasons?) , who knows??

 

[Kiama Chris]

1. Glad we agree on something! It will be up to Ladhams himself how well he performs.

2. I was not knocking Mills. As I said, he is currently our best player. You can't get higher praise than that. I think Rowbottom was our best player in the last ten weeks of the season, in the best Swans team I've seen play since at least 2017. Our coaches and in fact this very board's votes back this up. Therefore if he can apply it to say twenty weeks of the season, as Mills did this year, I think he'd be our best player. I don't think there's a more impactful Swan when he's on. So it is less a knock on Mills as a player and more a testament to how bullish I am on Rowbottom.

3. I was not saying Gulden would be in our top 4 mids for CBAs. If that were the case I'd have said he'd have 50%+. I think above 40% would be a decent amount for a young player and X-factor mid we are gradually trying to introduce to the inside brigade.

4. Another thing we agree on!

5. Paddy & Blakey were outstanding this year, but their quiet games cost them a top 10 finish. Another year of experience for them could iron out those inconsistencies. Florent already finished top 10 this year and I'd expect him to do so again. Fox is the only one I'd have doubts about, given Horse hasn't always shown him love, but if he can be BOG in a grand final, then he can be a top 10 player in the B&F for us. Horse loves defence!

As for Amartey and McLean... well, we may just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Interesting debate between you two fine and prolific posters.
1) IMO Ladhams is yet to win back the confidence of coaches and fellow players. If that happens he should overtake the aging RJ. If not, Houston, we have a problem.
2) If we do well again we're very likely to see the same top 3 in the Skilton and close too. Who wins? Don't leave Warner out of your thoughts.
3) At this stage I think Gulden is still best used for outlet receipt and delivery so I doubt we'll see him at more than occasional CBAs. In future though?
4) Another agreement.
5) Too many defenders to make the top 10 unless we're getting towelled in the mids. Think 3/4/3. Paddy dropped off some. Fox played part of the year. Lloyd coach's favourite. My bet? Tom, Jake and Ollie.

I rate McLean over Amartey as he plays the whole game out and he's disciplined. Not nearly as good in the ruck but offers more throughout the game.
Hope both come on.

 

[Bloods86]

I rate Amartey over McLean because he was simply just better this year. Neither did a lot at senior level. Joel kicked 37.21 in 14 reserves games, with two of those having come off before half time, and he was used more in the ruck. He looked unstoppable at times up forward. McLean's had one or two great games at AFL level (over his career), but he has had 31 games to 13 games to do it in, many fairly ineffectual.

Beatson didn't just single out Amartey, he mentioned McLean as well, not being certainties for the future. From what's been shown recently, I'd be backing Joel in.

Where the problem may lie for Joel is he's not seen as the differential that McLean is. While Buddy and Logan/Reid are in the team, can see McLean picked as the stay at home KPF. I don't think the gap is that big in that regard, and once Buddy, Reid go, Joel should get better opportunities (to be a preferred target).

 

[rustycrate]

Five things I predict will have happened by the end of season 2023:

1. Ladhams will have overtaken Hickey in the ruck pecking order.
2. Rowbottom will have overtaken Mills as our best player.
3. Gulden will be averaging 40%+ CBAs.
4. T. McCartin will be in All Australian contention.
5. All of Paddy, Blakey, Fox & Florent will finish top 10 in the B&F.

One thing I hope will have happened by the end of season 2023:

1. The Big Macs (Hayden & Logan) will be cemented in the best 22's forward line.

Number 1. I hope so. Otherwise he is shit.
Number 2 is like saying the sun will come up in the west next year. Just will not happen. Mills is, and I struggle for words, just Mills. He is immovable. He is everything that any captain of a side wants to be. The superlatives that you want to rain down on Mills are wasted. He does not want recognition. He just wants to win, anywhere on the field, if there is a problem he will be there, if we need a captain to make a statement within a game he will already be there making it. He is a nondescript sort of player. In that I mean he is not flashy. But if you want a hard as player dishing it out to the opposition, if you want a tactician directing play, if you want lead by example, if you want encouragement when things are bad or good, then there is no one else except Mills.
Rowbottom will never be a Mills. But I love Rowbottoms unassuming, constant, hard at it, brilliance in and around the contest and around goals.
Two very very good players but different. The Swans are a great team because everyone is a bit different.
Number 3 is inevitable. This guy is............just such a great player.
Number 4. I thought he already was. Still in primary school as a defender but is one of the best in the AFL.
Number 5. Obvious.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

Five things I predict will have happened by the end of season 2023:

1. Ladhams will have overtaken Hickey in the ruck pecking order.
2. Rowbottom will have overtaken Mills as our best player.
3. Gulden will be averaging 40%+ CBAs.
4. T. McCartin will be in All Australian contention.
5. All of Paddy, Blakey, Fox & Florent will finish top 10 in the B&F.

One thing I hope will have happened by the end of season 2023:

1. The Big Macs (Hayden & Logan) will be cemented in the best 22's forward line.

1. Well yes, that's the plan. If not we're in trouble.
2. No. I love Rowy but Mills is so clearly our best player that Rowy would have to basically win the Brownlow to overtake Mills.
3. I'm glad someone brought this up because I think it's a solution that's staring us in the face.
4. Yes pls
5. We're not having 5 defenders in our B&F top 10 (including Tommy Mac cos AA contention), no shot.
6. The ****in dream man

 

[caesar88]

Number 1. I hope so. Otherwise he is s**t.
Number 2 is like saying the sun will come up in the west next year. Just will not happen. Mills is, and I struggle for words, just Mills. He is immovable. He is everything that any captain of a side wants to be. The superlatives that you want to rain down on Mills are wasted. He does not want recognition. He just wants to win, anywhere on the field, if there is a problem he will be there, if we need a captain to make a statement within a game he will already be there making it. He is a nondescript sort of player. In that I mean he is not flashy. But if you want a hard as player dishing it out to the opposition, if you want a tactician directing play, if you want lead by example, if you want encouragement when things are bad or good, then there is no one else except Mills.
Rowbottom will never be a Mills. But I love Rowbottoms unassuming, constant, hard at it, brilliance in and around the contest and around goals.
Two very very good players but different. The Swans are a great team because everyone is a bit different.
Number 3 is inevitable. This guy is............just such a great player.
Number 4. I thought he already was. Still in primary school as a defender but is one of the best in the AFL.
Number 5. Obvious.

Again, I am not knocking Mills. All of that you mention about Mills I completely agree with. He's a fantastic leader, one of our most consistent players, plays with unwavering effort, is a terrific two-way player (which I love - I have made no secret of these types who do the work that is both seen and unseen being my favourite players), and he also offers the flexibility of being able to play in defence. I have ranted and raved about Mills in many an essay this year.

But I am not so sure that it's as inconceivable that Rowbottom will go past him as everyone else seems to think it is. In a ten week period where the Swans went 9-1 and played in a grand final, Rowbottom got the most votes in the Skilton Medal of any Swans player (44 more than Mills got), and Rowbottom also got the most votes in this very board's POTY tally of any Swans player (11 more than Mills got.) Further looking into how us folk on here voted, he got the most POTY votes of any Swans player in the second-half of the season, and the most POTY votes in games against top four opponents, as well as in finals (plus was the only Swans player to poll in all three of our finals).

To me, that is pretty compelling. I actually rate the views of a player's own coaches and fans as a better judge of performance and quality than those of the umpires, or some voting panel made up of journos, or people who go off stats or Fantasy scores or highlight reels.

If Rowbottom backs that form up, and then continues it over the duration of a full season, rather than just ten weeks, he could easily be winning these honours that Mills won this year. It would be hard to deny it then.

Three years less in the system than Mills, I think his pure midfield craft is actually already superior to Mills, and he'll only get better. I'm not as willing to place such a ceiling on him as others are rusty. Let's see what happens, but I agree that it's a positive that many on here can't agree with who our best or most important player is. While most clubs are clinging to one great white hope, we have too many to even settle on one!

 

[The King!]

McDonald isn’t unbelievable atm come on.

He hardly got near it the last 6 weeks , some not even getting a touch for half’s

I hope he becomes a solid absolute star but he isn’t atm

well the fact he got dropped says it all, he is no where near it currently.

Plenty of young forwards showed promise and went to nothing