Analysis 2023 - Best 22

[rustycrate]

well the fact he got dropped says it all, he is no where near it currently.

Plenty of young forwards showed promise and went to nothing

He is only very young, but he will become a star FF in the future.

 

[The King!]

He is only very young, but he will become a star FF in the future.

he might

 

[rustycrate]

he might

I am backing him in. I'm a glass half full guy.

 

[kelpie_X]

I'm trying!!

Very

 

[rustycrate]

Again, I am not knocking Mills. All of that you mention about Mills I completely agree with. He's a fantastic leader, one of our most consistent players, plays with unwavering effort, is a terrific two-way player (which I love - I have made no secret of these types who do the work that is both seen and unseen being my favourite players), and he also offers the flexibility of being able to play in defence. I have ranted and raved about Mills in many an essay this year.

But I am not so sure that it's as inconceivable that Rowbottom will go past him as everyone else seems to think it is. In a ten week period where the Swans went 9-1 and played in a grand final, Rowbottom got the most votes in the Skilton Medal of any Swans player (44 more than Mills got), and Rowbottom also got the most votes in this very board's POTY tally of any Swans player (11 more than Mills got.) Further looking into how us folk on here voted, he got the most POTY votes of any Swans player in the second-half of the season, and the most POTY votes in games against top four opponents, as well as in finals (plus was the only Swans player to poll in all three of our finals).

To me, that is pretty compelling. I actually rate the views of a player's own coaches and fans as a better judge of performance and quality than those of the umpires, or some voting panel made up of journos, or people who go off stats or Fantasy scores or highlight reels.

If Rowbottom backs that form up, and then continues it over the duration of a full season, rather than just ten weeks, he could easily be winning these honours that Mills won this year. It would be hard to deny it then.

Three years less in the system than Mills, I think his pure midfield craft is actually already superior to Mills, and he'll only get better. I'm not as willing to place such a ceiling on him as others are rusty. Let's see what happens, but I agree that it's a positive that many on here can't agree with who our best or most important player is. While most clubs are clinging to one great white hope, we have too many to even settle on one!

You have opened my mind to the possibilities.

 

[Dan87]

Logan kicks 30 this year put the house on it

 

[Membling]

Not a huge fan of "gifting" games but getting time into Logan is a must next year.

We have Amartey and Mclean in the wings, sure, but definitely need to give Logan time to be the main banana. Even playing Buddy as a decoy could be an option this year

 

[Punts]

Personally don’t think the buddy decoy will ever work

He himself still demands the ball a lot during games and the players still see him as a presence not to kick it to him

I think Logan still plays in the worry of being in his way and might think of a decoy himself.

 

[Punts]

I can bet he will still be our highest percentage kick inside 50

That won’t change until he isn’t there

 

[Kapers]

I find the Mills v Rowbottom debate very interesting, especially as we seemingly have forgotten Warner as well.

Such an exciting position to be in watching all these players grow together.

 

[Membling]

Personally don’t think the buddy decoy will ever work

He himself still demands the ball a lot during games and the players still see him as a presence not to kick it to him

I think Logan still plays in the worry of being in his way and might think of a decoy himself.

I mean, worked well for the hawks in 13 IIRC.

Can, and has been done.

Will see what coaches want to do in 23 I suppose

 

[Punts]

I mean, worked well for the hawks in 13 IIRC.

Can, and has been done.

Will see what coaches want to do in 23 I suppose

That was 10 year younger buddy

Even though he didn’t win the Coleman his mate did he still wasn’t a decoy in 13

Clarkson just played him much higher and took him away from the prensence he is inside 50

An inside 50 buddy gets kicked to more often than not , facts.

Also he won’t be able to play the 13 role of roaming , he isn’t that buddy anymore. Turning defenders inside out

 

[Membling]

That was 10 year younger buddy

Even though he didn’t win the Coleman his mate did he still wasn’t a decoy in 13

Clarkson just played him much higher and took him away from the prensence he is inside 50

An inside 50 buddy gets kicked to more often than not , facts.

Also he won’t be able to play the 13 role of roaming , he isn’t that buddy anymore. Turning defenders inside out

I mean, we can still play him as a decoy.

Sit him deep, let him lead out to around 40/50 and let Mcdonald get fed in the space behind him.

Multiple ways to skin the cat and seeing as it will likely be his last year should start planning for it

 

[rustycrate]

I can't wait to see Sheldrick running out and playing with the Swans this year. He will push out or motivate those ahead of him.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I can't wait to see Sheldrick running out and playing with the Swans this year. He will push out or motivate those ahead of him.

I suspect Corey Warner might be the surprise packet if he follows anything like Chad's trajectory. You mentioned that he is well thought of.
There isn't as much opportunity though as there was for Chad. In fact, this will be a very hard team to break into.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I suspect Corey Warner might be the surprise packet if he follows anything like Chad's trajectory. You mentioned that he is well thought of.
There isn't as much opportunity though as there was for Chad. In fact, this will be a very hard team to break into.

Form, injury, system and structure and coaching philosophy will dictate selection. We were fortunate with injury in 2022, certainly relative to other Clubs.

JPKs last contribution was showing he could play in the 2s. Players can lose form or the game passes by their body or skill set.

There are very few from the GF side that are not droppable or who will need to ,after injuryz come back via the 2s.

Of the 22, only Mills, Tom McC, Papley, Gulden and possibly Lloyd are walk up starts. Of the rest I can see Buddy will be on a managed program and won't play 2s.

I can see possible (not probable) 2-time for Rampe, Blakey, Florent, Paddy Mac, Chad, Rowbottom, Heeney, and Parker

I can see highly likely 2-time for McInerney, RJ, Hayward, H Mac, Reid, Fox, Stephens, Clarke.

 

[RubbaDuck]

I wonder if we shouldn't all take a collective breath and look back at just how far we've come in such an impossibly short time. I feel an essay coming on.

With only Parker left as a senior mid, many of us were genuinely surprised at just how easily our young mids slipped into roles only recently vacated by a highly celebrated midfield. Even the unexpected loss of George Hewett, to injury and then to Carlton, didn't faze us. Our only midfield worry was how we could fit Kennedy in. A nice problem to have. That new would be welcome to supporters in 2018/2019.

Mills didn't even debut in our midfield until mid 2020. He'd played just over 30 midfield games coming into the 2022 season. Rowbottom began his midfield career a little earlier. He learned everything he could from the best, as he isn't a huge bloke. Rowy struggled to find consistently until 2022 when he left no doubt whatsover and finished with the 2nd most tackles in the league. Then there's Warner, who's already considered a future Brownlow medallist, despite only 15 games before 2022. He pulled 12 Brownlow votes in his first full season. Parker is playing his best footy. Stephens had the breaktrhough season we were all waiting for and his pre-season attitude suggests he wants a permanent seat at the table. Heeney and Papley have the luxury of a run through the mids but they can also opt to stay forward.

With our mids well stocked, we can turn our attention to our defence. Was it really only a couple of years ago we were crying over the loss of Aliir and then Dawson ? We've just picked up Frances and Gould's pressing for a gig of his own. Both would be snaffled by other team yet we're struggling to find them a spot. Paddy has been the feel good story of 2022. He and Tom just get better. Florent and Blakey provide the dash we needed from defence. LLoyd remains as consistent as ever. Rampe defies age (and gravity sometimes). Even Fox, the perennial sub, was one of our three stars (with Parker and Warner) in the '22 GF. If Fox can back it up this year we are in for a treat. I hope he's given a licence to thrill. Cunningham's become a bit of a spare tyre, not because he's not good, but the team just got better.

Aliir's departure snagged us Hickey, who's saved his best for us. Truly he was the bargain pickup of the decade. Most of us were happy enough with Ladhams for the Dawson trade. We were lucky to get anything. I've seen enough to think he has the talent but his problems lie between his ears. Someone needs to knock the Bloods' culture into him with a small sledge hammer. If missing a GF didn't do it, I don't know what else.

Talking about missing GFs. The main area we need to worry about is forward of centre. McDonald, McLean and Amartey have taken an age to come on. Luckily we've had more time to get them on-stream than we first thought. Reid has taken his game to a new level - literally, across all stats except three - while Buddy has burned the AFL nay-sayers, re-signing for a year PAST his "far too long" controversial contract. A formal apology from the AFL,along with three first round draft picks for compensation should be delivered any day now.

Talking about draft picks. Have a look at the talent in Santa's draft sack. This is a young team and we're already training up our next generation. What a time to be a Swan.

So now to the forwards. It remains to be seen which of our young talls can make the next step. I personally feel McDonald earned a GF gig ahead of McLean. But both had been in average form so it didn't count for much. The loss of Reid might have forced a young tall into trying out Reid's role. IMO Horse had no choice but to play Reid, even a broken down Reid. Not playing Reid was sure to cost us the game. We simply have no-one who can fill Reid's role(s), arguably one of the most critical in our team.

Did anyone else wonder how Reid forced his way back into one of the best teams in the league ahead of three young talls who were unable to crack a regulr gig? Reid simply offered more than any of those three young talls. He's become a very good backup ruck, he trained to become a better defender, he creates forward pressure, as he corrals and tackles, he crashes packs, takes contested marks or brings the ball to ground. He reads the game as well as any, runs hard both ways and is there to back up the defence. Reid plays smart and he plays desperate. At training his teammates sometimes have to call him off the attack on the ball. These young talls want to be the next Buddy but maybe one or two of them should try to be the next Reid. Amartey's probably the closest to Reid in all round ability but McDonald could also learn the role. McLean seems too one-dimensional (in my view)

One dimensional players are a dying breed. Most of Geelo3their players fill multiple roles. Recall how Hawkins out-muscled Hickey in the ruck, then he's a key forward again, with the ball in his hands in front of the big sticks. Biclavs is Geelong's version of Reid but defence oriented. He's an impossible to match up on tall ruck/defender/mid-fielder/all round nuisance - anything he wants to be. Jeremy Cameron is an outside midfielder as much as he's a key forward. Adam Goodes won two Brownlow as a ruck/midfielder/tall forward. Today's young talls ought to have more arrows in the quiver, more strings to their bow. A tall can often perform a number of roles well. I think Geelong have demonstrated just how effective these hybrid talls can be.

I have no doubt Horse will fit the right pieces in the right places to complete the puzzle. We have no shortage of talent and there are many ways to skin a cat (as my neighbour's annoying feline will discover if it keeps killing birds)

 

[RubbaDuck]

I suspect Corey Warner might be the surprise packet if he follows anything like Chad's trajectory. You mentioned that he is well thought of.
There isn't as much opportunity though as there was for Chad. In fact, this will be a very hard team to break into.

Pressure to live up to an older brother can be huge

 

[Kiama Chris]

Pressure to live up to an older brother can be huge

That is true, but Chad has shown him what needs to be done and one gets the feeling he's having a fair old crack and has done so ever since Chad came home that first Christmas. Doubt he'll die wondering. Plenty of time yet.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I wonder if we shouldn't all take a collective breath and look back at just how far we've come in such an impossibly short time. I feel an essay coming on.

With only Parker left as a senior mid, many of us were genuinely surprised at just how easily our young mids slipped into roles only recently vacated by a highly celebrated midfield. Even the unexpected loss of George Hewett, to injury and then to Carlton, didn't faze us. Our only midfield worry was how we could fit Kennedy in. A nice problem to have. That new would be welcome to supporters in 2018/2019.

Mills didn't even debut in our midfield until mid 2020. He'd played just over 30 midfield games coming into the 2022 season. Rowbottom began his midfield career a little earlier. He learned everything he could from the best, as he isn't a huge bloke. Rowy struggled to find consistently until 2022 when he left no doubt whatsover and finished with the 2nd most tackles in the league. Then there's Warner, who's already considered a future Brownlow medallist, despite only 15 games before 2022. He pulled 12 Brownlow votes in his first full season. Parker is playing his best footy. Stephens had the breaktrhough season we were all waiting for and his pre-season attitude suggests he wants a permanent seat at the table. Heeney and Papley have the luxury of a run through the mids but they can also opt to stay forward.

With our mids well stocked, we can turn our attention to our defence. Was it really only a couple of years ago we were crying over the loss of Aliir and then Dawson ? We've just picked up Frances and Gould's pressing for a gig of his own. Both would be snaffled by other team yet we're struggling to find them a spot. Paddy has been the feel good story of 2022. He and Tom just get better. Florent and Blakey provide the dash we needed from defence. LLoyd remains as consistent as ever. Rampe defies age (and gravity sometimes). Even Fox, the perennial sub, was one of our three stars (with Parker and Warner) in the '22 GF. If Fox can back it up this year we are in for a treat. I hope he's given a licence to thrill. Cunningham's become a bit of a spare tyre, not because he's not good, but the team just got better.

Aliir's departure snagged us Hickey, who's saved his best for us. Truly he was the bargain pickup of the decade. Most of us were happy enough with Ladhams for the Dawson trade. We were lucky to get anything. I've seen enough to think he has the talent but his problems lie between his ears. Someone needs to knock the Bloods' culture into him with a small sledge hammer. If missing a GF didn't do it, I don't know what else.

Talking about missing GFs. The main area we need to worry about is forward of centre. McDonald, McLean and Amartey have taken an age to come on. Luckily we've had more time to get them on-stream than we first thought. Reid has taken his game to a new level - literally, across all stats except three - while Buddy has burned the AFL nay-sayers, re-signing for a year PAST his "far too long" controversial contract. A formal apology from the AFL,along with three first round draft picks for compensation should be delivered any day now.

Talking about draft picks. Have a look at the talent in Santa's draft sack. This is a young team and we're already training up our next generation. What a time to be a Swan.

So now to the forwards. It remains to be seen which of our young talls can make the next step. I personally feel McDonald earned a GF gig ahead of McLean. But both had been in average form so it didn't count for much. The loss of Reid might have forced a young tall into trying out Reid's role. IMO Horse had no choice but to play Reid, even a broken down Reid. Not playing Reid was sure to cost us the game. We simply have no-one who can fill Reid's role(s), arguably one of the most critical in our team.

Did anyone else wonder how Reid forced his way back into one of the best teams in the league ahead of three young talls who were unable to crack a regulr gig? Reid simply offered more than any of those three young talls. He's become a very good backup ruck, he trained to become a better defender, he creates forward pressure, as he corrals and tackles, he crashes packs, takes contested marks or brings the ball to ground. He reads the game as well as any, runs hard both ways and is there to back up the defence. Reid plays smart and he plays desperate. At training his teammates sometimes have to call him off the attack on the ball. These young talls want to be the next Buddy but maybe one or two of them should try to be the next Reid. Amartey's probably the closest to Reid in all round ability but McDonald could also learn the role. McLean seems too one-dimensional (in my view)

One dimensional players are a dying breed. Most of Geelo3their players fill multiple roles. Recall how Hawkins out-muscled Hickey in the ruck, then he's a key forward again, with the ball in his hands in front of the big sticks. Biclavs is Geelong's version of Reid but defence oriented. He's an impossible to match up on tall ruck/defender/mid-fielder/all round nuisance - anything he wants to be. Jeremy Cameron is an outside midfielder as much as he's a key forward. Adam Goodes won two Brownlow as a ruck/midfielder/tall forward. Today's young talls ought to have more arrows in the quiver, more strings to their bow. A tall can often perform a number of roles well. I think Geelong have demonstrated just how effective these hybrid talls can be.

I have no doubt Horse will fit the right pieces in the right places to complete the puzzle. We have no shortage of talent and there are many ways to skin a cat (as my neighbour's annoying feline will discover if it keeps killing birds)

Great post!
Two things.
1) I still think Horse (match committee?) made a blunder not picking the PF team for the GF and replacing Reid at the last moment when it was obvious he was not fit. McLean in as the named emergency.
2) I wonder if Francis has the capacity to play the kind of role you talk about as a jack of all trades tall. In his draft year there was talk about him maybe playing midfield but for sure he never developed a tank or played there. Also not sure if we want to structure that way. Another candidate though is Blakey at 195cm. Might be worth a thought.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Reid is yet to make top 10 in the BnF.

Playing him in the GF was a disgrace. He would have had a say. It was painfully obvious early in the game that he was unfit and useless. Even tho the game was long gone it was a relief when he was subbed out. At time I thought suck on that Reid, suck on that Horse.

McLean in his first game for us produced a better gutsier half than Reid ever has or will punch hitting in the Ruck.

I was disappointed he got another gig.

 

[rustycrate]

I suspect Corey Warner might be the surprise packet if he follows anything like Chad's trajectory. You mentioned that he is well thought of.
There isn't as much opportunity though as there was for Chad. In fact, this will be a very hard team to break into.

It is amazing that we actually made it to the grand final. This midfield is so young
Parker-30-260 games
Mills-26-135 games
----------------
Rowbottom-23-65 games
McInerney-23-53 games
Gulden-21-43 games
Warner-22-39 games
Stephens-22-30 games
-------------
Sheldrick-19-2 games

This is the nerve centre, the driving force of the Swans team. They are mostly sooo young!!

 

[rustycrate]

I suspect Corey Warner might be the surprise packet if he follows anything like Chad's trajectory. You mentioned that he is well thought of.
There isn't as much opportunity though as there was for Chad. In fact, this will be a very hard team to break into.

Cory is well thought of as a footballer. He knows where to run, he makes good decisions. They value him.
Hopefully he will become a force like his brother. Time will tell.

 

[caesar88]

It is amazing that we actually made it to the grand final. This midfield is so young
Parker-30-260 games
Mills-26-135 games
----------------
Rowbottom-23-65 games
McInerney-23-53 games
Gulden-21-43 games
Warner-22-39 games
Stephens-22-30 games
-------------
Sheldrick-19-2 games

This is the nerve centre, the driving force of the Swans team. They are mostly sooo young!!

I love what we're building with our midfield. It's the one area of the ground I'm most confident about, which is funny because two years ago it was the area I was least convinced by. At the time, Mills still looked nowhere near leaving defence and Warner was very much an unknown entity. Clearly the club had a plan to resolve our very obvious midfield issues, and it's unfolded almost perfectly to date.

Our midfield stocks are now stellar and I don't think there's a group in the competition who complement each other better.

You have Mills, the disciplined, blue-collar brute, the big-bodied general in the contest.

You have Warner, the dynamic, attacking, break-away weapon.

You have Rowbottom, the hybrid of the two above who bridges their very different games together.

You have Parker, the scrappy, accountable mid winding down his career in the midfield, and you have his future successor in the form of Sheldrick the underling.

And you have Papley, the X-factor mid who offers something different from all of the above. However I think (and hope) that this player will eventually become Gulden. He is a smarter, less chaotic version of Papley, so I think he has a better chance at working well with the other mids, unlike Papley, whose energy and chaos prove just as much a hindrance to our clearance game as a benefit.

That's all before you get to the wings, where it's hard to imagine two purer wingmen than McInerney and Stephens. They are different in a way - McInerney more of a burst and line-breaking type, Stephens more of a territory and coverage work-horse - but that's only a good thing.

All of this is to say that I am with you on the mids rusty. Number of teams who have won flags with five inside mids/wingmen all under 100 games = 0. Trust the process.

 

[RilesMacca]

Some good posts above. I don't mind the rowbottom vs mills debate. Rowys back half of the season showed he can be more than just a role player, hes a key part of our midfield and his ability to extract the pill from the contest and win so many 50/50s is vital for us.

However, Mills is our most important player in the side. The all around ability, sets up the play, elite in defence and attack, two way run, very coachable player, co captain, I cant really see Rowy rise over Mills in ability or importance next year, but that's only in comparison with Mills, Rowy is still gonna be a key part this year.

I don't feel that Logan will light it up too crazy this year, might take his 4th or 5th year to be up there. If he gets a good go at it I feel he could kick around 20-30 goals depends on if we start to transition buddy higher up the ground, as McDonald plays his best isolated.

Gulden might get a bit more cbas and inside mid minutes as he puts on more size, but he plays his best on the outside as a link up or hitting up a target inside 50, love the way he goes at it on the ball too, plays bigger than his size. I'd also love to see Campbell play higher up the ground. Aint getting the best use of him down there most of the time, needs to get stronger. His ball skills are far more effective in the forward half of the ground.

I wonder how Paddy will go this year. Coaches started to strategize against him and he slightly faded away in terms of impact in the second half of the year. If he has a good preseason, I'm interested to see how Francis could go with a lockdown role which could free up Paddy a bit more to do his stuff. If not, Aaron could be a nice swingman option for us too. Tommy Mac will progressively get better, but I think he's just not there yet in terms of an AA/top 3 key def, give it a few more seasons. Gives away too many frees, and can have his inconsistencies on the premier key forwards, but still huge upside.

I'm also keen to see which one out of the youngsters will debut first, Konstanty or gussy in the forward line is my pick, just don't know who. Gonna be some big competition there.