Analysis 2023 - Best 22

[rustycrate]

I love what we're building with our midfield. It's the one area of the ground I'm most confident about, which is funny because two years ago it was the area I was least convinced by. At the time, Mills still looked nowhere near leaving defence and Warner was very much an unknown entity. Clearly the club had a plan to resolve our very obvious midfield issues, and it's unfolded almost perfectly to date.

Our midfield stocks are now stellar and I don't think there's a group in the competition who complement each other better.

You have Mills, the disciplined, blue-collar brute, the big-bodied general in the contest.

You have Warner, the dynamic, attacking, break-away weapon.

You have Rowbottom, the hybrid of the two above who bridges their very different games together.

You have Parker, the scrappy, accountable mid winding down his career in the midfield, and you have his future successor in the form of Sheldrick the underling.

And you have Papley, the X-factor mid who offers something different from all of the above. However I think (and hope) that this player will eventually become Gulden. He is a smarter, less chaotic version of Papley, so I think he has a better chance at working well with the other mids, unlike Papley, whose energy and chaos prove just as much a hindrance to our clearance game as a benefit.

That's all before you get to the wings, where it's hard to imagine two purer wingmen than McInerney and Stephens. They are different in a way - McInerney more of a burst and line-breaking type, Stephens more of a territory and coverage work-horse - but that's only a good thing.

All of this is to say that I am with you on the mids rusty. Number of teams who have won flags with five inside mids/wingmen all under 100 games = 0. Trust the process.

Beautifully put. The only way is up for this midfield and this great team. Rubbaduck said that the only thing we were missing in the GF was experience. We will get there. The talent is there. The experience is growing.

 

[scaryness]

I was making my best 22 and then realised its essentially the same as last years.

Franklin gets benefit of the doubt for now, why not.
No thank you to Ladhams being best 22.

Clarke is the only contentious spot and unless someone can do as half a good a job I don't see the need to change much.

Francis will be best 22 eventually imo. Konstanty and maybe Sheldrick will be knocking on the door; but we made a grand final last year and I don't see the need for rapid change.

 

[SGBeach]

Some good posts above. I don't mind the rowbottom vs mills debate. Rowys back half of the season showed he can be more than just a role player, hes a key part of our midfield and his ability to extract the pill from the contest and win so many 50/50s is vital for us.

I called Rowbum an 'exceptionally good role player'.. Just to clarify, I think they're all role players..
Rowbum plays a defensive role - plus a bit more which is exciting
Mills plays every and any roll that the team requires at any point in any game - which is brilliant!
Parker still plays the general mid roll - and is still bloody good at it
and all this this scope for..
Warner plays an attacking roll

 

[Wolftone]

I think I have identified Amartey's problem. It is twofold. Endurance and movement. He is too lethargic at times. He needs maintain movement all the time. He needs to maintain effort. His run and chase are good. His ability is beyond question. He just goes missing for long period then crops up and takes a huge mark or has a sensational 10 minutes. I am hoping with a very strong preseason he will have a far stronger output.

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[Dan87]

By the end of 2023 I'm expecting Warner to be our best/most valuable mid

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I think I have identified Amartey's problem. It is twofold. Endurance and movement. He is too lethargic at times. He needs maintain movement all the time. He needs to maintain effort. Hisyp run and chase are good. His ability is beyond question. He just goes missing for long period then crops up and takes a huge mark or has a sensational 10 minutes. I am hoping with a very strong preseason he will have a far stronger output.

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Just not smart enough. Athletically he is a fast twitch burst player and not an endurance type.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

By the end of 2023 I'm expecting Warner to be our best/most valuable mid

The fact that Parker could end up being our 4th best mid next year is bloody exciting (I know he technically was this year in the B&F results, but no he wasn't)

 

[Dan87]

The fact that Parker could end up being our 4th best mid next year is bloody exciting (I know he technically was this year in the B&F results, but no he wasn't)

Not wrong, I'm pretty antsy to win the cup and missing an opportunity is always shite, but the midfield will keep getting better and better for years if they stay together

 

[Edmund hunt]

A lot of people are saying we could drop out of the 4 even possibly the 8. I think we easily have the team to make another final push. One of the best in the competition if you ask me.

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[RUNVS]

A lot of people are saying we could drop out of the 4 even possibly the 8. I think we easily have the team to make another final push. One of the best in the competition if you ask me.

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The only what if for me is how do the players handle losing the Grand Final so badly. On paper we should be a better side this year as all our young players are a year older and that is not nothing. The only players who will likely get worse in 2023 compared to 2022 are Buddy, Rampe and possibly Hickey. Everyone else should be either the same as in 2022 or better.

 

[Punts]

The only what if for me is how do the players handle losing the Grand Final so badly. On paper we should be a better side this year as all our young players are a year older and that is not nothing. The only players who will likely get worse in 2023 compared to 2022 are Buddy, Rampe and possibly Hickey. Everyone else should be either the same as in 2022 or better.

Lions , tigers and cats etc made a few handy off season trades that could make them a step closer

 

[Millky95]

A lot of people are saying we could drop out of the 4 even possibly the 8. I think we easily have the team to make another final push. One of the best in the competition if you ask me.

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And our draw sucks

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

And our draw sucks

If we are good enough, with natural improvement from younger players more than balancing decline of older players we should be ok. I don't expect Buddy, Rampe or Hickey will go over the cliff and become liabilities as JPK did in 2022.

I am really happy as I think it is more a matter of the three being less influential on our fortunes than in the past. If we are lucky we may get 16 regular season games from Bud and RJ. Twelve months ago I was vilified here for my prediction about JPK. That I was completely correct brought zero pleasure (and no retractions I sadly note). I don't expect any of the three to go over the cliff, injury aside.

I would be shocked to the core if we commenced 2023 as we did in 2017.

However while I am optimistic about heaps of the kids I worry whether there is improvement in all of them. If we have seen the best of quite a few then we are in strife. They will join now experienced players in Heeney, Papley, Florent and Hayward from whom I see no substantial upside on what they have already produced.

So it is not the draw that worries me, but the level of natural improvement from the kids. I am rock sure only that Gulden is a long way from his best and that alone makes me grin.

 

[SeanM]

A lot of people are saying we could drop out of the 4 even possibly the 8. I think we easily have the team to make another final push. One of the best in the competition if you ask me.

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I think there can be a fine line between being a top 4 side and a top 8 side.

This year 2nd only finished 4 points ahead of 6th. And last year 3rd was only 4 points ahead of 6th.

 

[caesar88]

However while I am optimistic about heaps of the kids I worry whether there is improvement in all of them. If we have seen the best of quite a few then we are in strife. They will join now experienced players in Heeney, Papley, Florent and Hayward from whom I see no substantial upside on what they have already produced.

So it is not the draw that worries me, but the level of natural improvement from the kids. I am rock sure only that Gulden is a long way from his best and that alone makes me grin.

Why would we have seen the best of the kids? There's a reason the prime age of an AFL player is 25-30, and not 18-24.

 

[anotherletdown]

Whilst you are correct, I am kinda tired of relying on Reid

Totally agree. Known as a key structural player and has injury concerns. Seems to me like the sort of player you have a back-up plan for... but not us.

Van Rooyen and/or Gruzewski anyone? I don't get our drafting tactics

 

[SGBeach]

Totally agree. Known as a key structural player and has injury concerns. Seems to me like the sort of player you have a back-up plan for... but not us.

Van Rooyen and/or Gruzewski anyone? I don't get our drafting tactics

I hear you.. Its impossible to understand hoe Kinnear works??
I just reckon he plays a long game, over multiple draft / trade periods. Drafting Gruvewski wouldn't help us for another 4-5 years.. We've got Logan who still has a year or two to go and Im not sure 2 x young key forwards works. Im thinking we'll be trading a more mature kpf for next season (2024)

 

[Kiama Chris]

I hear you.. Its impossible to understand hoe Kinnear works??
I just reckon he plays a long game, over multiple draft / trade periods. Drafting Gruvewski wouldn't help us for another 4-5 years.. We've got Logan who still has a year or two to go and Im not sure 2 x young key forwards works. Im thinking we'll be trading a more mature kpf for next season (2024)

The problem is who? I went through this exercise a while ago and couldn't come up with a player who fits this description who is likely to be available, likely to want to come to Sydney and is better than who we have. Nice if it happens but I just can't see it.

 

[SGBeach]

The problem is who? I went through this exercise a while ago and couldn't come up with a player who fits this description who is likely to be available, likely to want to come to Sydney and is better than who we have. Nice if it happens but I just can't see it.

yep, I remember your post. I did the same, went through all the tall forwards, 23 - 28yo, OOC in the next two years.. thought there was a few that fit the bill.
I was gonna save that topic for when Ticky lets us open a 2023 draft & trade hypotheticals thread

I guess contracts dont mean that much anymore, player movement is pretty common and no-one ever knows what the Swans are planning until after the fact.

 

[Nuggetz]

Our skill levels are elite compared to the competition. Another pre-season developing the body for the youngsters should mean we can handle physicality better. Aim top 4, even top 2 due to our skill levels & improved physicality. Only change in my best 22 is McDonald replacing McLean.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

Totally agree. Known as a key structural player and has injury concerns. Seems to me like the sort of player you have a back-up plan for... but not us.

Van Rooyen and/or Gruzewski anyone? I don't get our drafting tactics

First of all, holy shit we have Logan, McLean, and Amartey who can all be the up the line high CHF. I mean **** if we wanna get really funky we can have Ladhams play the role (or even Cameron Owen).

Second, how many times does it have to be said that Kinnear and Co didn't rate the talls in the most recent class (outside of Cadman and Busslinger obvs) and that includes Grezuwski. As for JVR, the answer is obvious in that it was a case of best available being Gus Sheldrick.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Why would we have seen the best of the kids? There's a reason the prime age of an AFL player is 25-30, and not 18-24.

You are unduly optimistic about the scope for our younger players.

Some youngsters are precocious and show more early which a lot of ours have done.

Our drafting puts a premium on one touch, footy IQ and disposal skills. You either have these attributes or you don’t. Sure more pre seasons will help the ability to run out seasons and Finals’ campaigns as will experience.

I see only marginal upside from younger players like Rowy, Blakey, Stephens and T Mac. If one or two end up A graders I will be surprised but very happy. They are classic good players that every competitive team needs. They are not generational champions like Goodes or JPK.

The Chad is not going to develop more tricks tho experience and better use within our systems and tactics may help increase his effectiveness. We should be confident he will become an A grader.

There is more scope with Gulden WHO IS a generational talent. Logan as a bigger kid needs experience and gym time and smart coaching to make use of his talents. We obviously have not seen the best of Angus. I hope Logan and Angus will become A graders.

I think unless the Coaches work out how best to use Campbell he will be a bust. I have seen nothing from Corey W, Gould, Rankin, Roberts, McLean to suggest their ceiling is beyond solid B grade player. Every Premier needs their B graders but they also need their Dusty’s, Adams etc. Gulden and possibly the Chad will be ours.

 

[caesar88]

You are unduly optimistic about the scope for our younger players.

Some youngsters are precocious and show more early which a lot of ours have done.

Our drafting puts a premium on one touch, footy IQ and disposal skills. You either have these attributes or you don’t. Sure more pre seasons will help the ability to run out seasons and Finals’ campaigns as will experience.

I see only marginal upside from younger players like Rowy, Blakey, Stephens and T Mac. If one or two end up A graders I will be surprised but very happy. They are classic good players that every competitive team needs. They are not generational champions like Goodes or JPK.

The Chad is not going to develop more tricks tho experience and better use within our systems and tactics may help increase his effectiveness. We should be confident he will become an A grader.

There is more scope with Gulden WHO IS a generational talent. Logan as a bigger kid needs experience and gym time and smart coaching to make use of his talents. We obviously have not seen the best of Angus. I hope Logan and Angus will become A graders.

I think unless the Coaches work out how best to use Campbell he will be a bust. I have seen nothing from Corey W, Gould, Rankin, Roberts, McLean to suggest their ceiling is beyond solid B grade player. Every Premier needs their B graders but they also need their Dusty’s, Adams etc. Gulden and possibly the Chad will be ours.

With all due respect, this is just awful, inconsistent, and illogical diatribe, and, at the risk of being too direct and arrogant, you are dead wrong about our players.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

With all due respect, this is just awful, inconsistent, and illogical diatribe, and, at the risk of being too direct and arrogant, you are dead wrong about our players.

Your invective is always entertaining. FWIW I hope you are right about the youngsters.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I was making my best 22 and then realised its essentially the same as last years.

Franklin gets benefit of the doubt for now, why not.
No thank you to Ladhams being best 22.

Clarke is the only contentious spot and unless someone can do as half a good a job I don't see the need to change much.

Francis will be best 22 eventually imo. Konstanty and maybe Sheldrick will be knocking on the door; but we made a grand final last year and I don't see the need for rapid change.

I agree, but we had a blessed run with injuries in ‘22.

An important question is therefore which depth players are genuine AFL standard - as the odds are we’ll need them if we have a “normal” run with injury.