Prediction 2023 Best 23

[ant555]

Wont be a KPP next year and probably not for a while at AFL level unless he really fills out

His best position in the peak of his career is probably a 3rd intercepting tall aswell

I think there are too many front half guys that need to be fitted in somehow now so probably means Cox can go back. I actually think he could play as a genuine half back flanker if need be. In a Lukoscious/Scrimshaw way

But yeh im not ruling out a wing spot still. Could easily be played over Durham

We need to remember he really battled with little to no preseason last year and his confidence was just never there and then took a hit being played early which affected his performance

So Cox who is more solid and a bigger frame than Reid will not be able to play KP next year but we have to throw Reid in to play number 1 KPD .
What we have to remember is sides had started to work him out in the back half of 2021. Sides played him a lot tighter. The stopped giving him a run at the footy and he had no answers for what to do next. Anyone who watched enough live games could see he really struggled with his positioning and being caught under the footy a lot. In fact one of his better games was when they gave him a run on the ball for 10 minutes. He was more involved playing through the middle.

 

[ant555]

Look he might just not be upto it, had my concerns aswell. If you havnt played consistent footy in the first 3 years then im not sure how many would go on to be very good players by recent history.

If we dont think hes going to be KPD1 then we should be drafting one asap or looking to trade one in. Huge list need if we dont think Reid is that guy

The fact he has not played much will be what it is. If he is not physically read or able to play a spot then he is not. That is why they played him half back in the VFL and some forward time as well. I suspect he will play games next season but he is not going to be the strong brute KPD that some have him penciled in for.

 

[Keystone agony]

So Cox who is more solid and a bigger frame than Reid will not be able to play KP next year but we have to throw Reid in to play number 1 KPD .
What we have to remember is sides had started to work him out in the back half of 2021. Sides played him a lot tighter. The stopped giving him a run at the footy and he had no answers for what to do next. Anyone who watched enough live games could see he really struggled with his positioning and being caught under the footy a lot. In fact one of his better games was when they gave him a run on the ball for 10 minutes. He was more involved playing through the middle.

Cox just moves so much better, his skillset is better suited to a 3rd intercepting tall right now but i still think his skillset can suit a wing. I have him down back now with so many front half guys needed to be fitted in, more as a genuine half back flanker like Lukoscius is what id like to see

Reid can only be a KPP player, he may aswell develop in that role now whilst we are rebuilding and have no one else outside of Stewart who Rutten didnt even like taking the main guys. We need to gind out what we have with Reid this year and what he will likely be. Does surprise me that hes a few kgs less but i think Reid will end up a really big guy. The concerns with Reid isnt his size or frame its his speed and ability to cover a forward

Laverdes ok in the role but i think it can only take you so far and he just doesnt have the size

In my 2025 side id have Reid and Cox as my FB/CHB

 

[Keystone agony]

Are people picking Massimo as a defender?

 

[ant555]

Cox just moves so much better, his skillset is better suited to a 3rd intercepting tall right now but i still think his skillset can suit a wing. I have him down back now with so many front half guys needed to be fitted in, more as a genuine half back flanker like Lukoscius is what id like to see

Reid can only be a KPP player, he may aswell develop in that role now whilst we are rebuilding and have no one else outside of Stewart who Rutten didnt even like taking the main guys. We need to gind out what we have with Reid this year and what he will likely be. Does surprise me that hes a few kgs less but i think Reid will end up a really big guy. The concerns with Reid isnt his size or frame its his speed and ability to cover a forward

Laverdes ok in the role but i think it can only take you so far and he just doesnt have the size

In my 2025 side id have Reid and Cox as my FB/CHB

The fact that Cox moves better actually makes him a better defensive option now. The problem with Cox and wing is wing is a specialist position and Cox actually does not have the footy brain as far as wing goes. He can run all day and his size makes him a marking option but he does not have all the tools to play wing. What he can be is a star defender. He also has some forward scope but his goal kicking is patchy.

Stewart will be used back again. Truck moved him forward again due to the need for a forward with so many injuries in the forward half.
In 2021 Stewart he played on whoever played on whoever was the deep forward when he came back from injury. They will use him to plug a gap in defense again next year.

The issue right now with Reid is size and frame. That is why he can not be thrown to the wolves. He struggled massively with the physical aspect this year . It may not be the case down the track but he just needs a decent pre season and be able to make his way in a lesser role. The glandular fever he had in 2021 set him back a long way. He was a decent intercept player at under 18 level as well. What we need to do with Reid is allow him to develop at his pace. He does not have to be the number 1 KPD next year. We are not shooting for a premiership in 2023. He just needs another solid season of footy. It may well be a mix of AFL and VFL.

I do not have a 2025 side only to say that Cox and Reid would be in defense but there may well be someone else taking on the big forwards. It may well be BZT if he improves again on what he did this year or it may be a situation like Melbourne where you bring someone else in to fill that spot.

 

[Keystone agony]

The fact that Cox moves better actually makes him a better defensive option now. The problem with Cox and wing is wing is a specialist position and Cox actually does not have the footy brain as far as wing goes. He can run all day and his size makes him a marking option but he does not have all the tools to play wing. What he can be is a star defender. He also has some forward scope but his goal kicking is patchy.

Stewart will be used back again. Truck moved him forward again due to the need for a forward with so many injuries in the forward half.
In 2021 Stewart he played on whoever played on whoever was the deep forward when he came back from injury. They will use him to plug a gap in defense again next year.

The issue right now with Reid is size and frame. That is why he can not be thrown to the wolves. He struggled massively with the physical aspect this year . It may not be the case down the track but he just needs a decent pre season and be able to make his way in a lesser role. The glandular fever he had in 2021 set him back a long way. He was a decent intercept player at under 18 level as well. What we need to do with Reid is allow him to develop at his pace. He does not have to be the number 1 KPD next year. We are not shooting for a premiership in 2023. He just needs another solid season of footy. It may well be a mix of AFL and VFL.

I do not have a 2025 side only to say that Cox and Reid would be in defense but there may well be someone else taking on the big forwards. It may well be BZT if he improves again on what he did this year or it may be a situation like Melbourne where you bring someone else in to fill that spot.

Is there much to be gained by playing Stewart as the KPD1?

 

[ant555]

Is there much to be gained by playing Stewart as the KPD1?

Not burning out the young blokes and giving their bodies time to be ready would be a reason. Right now BZT would have the hold on the number 1 KPD spot. Stewart will be back up but is it a real issue if his form is good enough to hold down that spot for a season or two ? If Reid ends up being the number two defender and Cox and Ridley the intercept flankers and we end up finding a full back via trade or FA it still works. Melbourne did it. Hawthorn did it.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The fact that Cox moves better actually makes him a better defensive option now. The problem with Cox and wing is wing is a specialist position and Cox actually does not have the footy brain as far as wing goes. He can run all day and his size makes him a marking option but he does not have all the tools to play wing. What he can be is a star defender. He also has some forward scope but his goal kicking is patchy.

I don't think we should give up on his wing development. It's better for the team for him to become a competent winger with a unique toolset, than a very good defender. Even if it takes another 60 games. As a winger he adds a point of difference to both offensive and defensive structures and I don't think having multiple elite tall intercepting defenders will move the needle any more than one and a competent lockdown.

 

[ant555]

I don't think we should give up on his wing development. It's better for the team for him to become a competent winger with a unique toolset, than a very good defender. Even if it takes another 60 games. As a winger he adds a point of difference to both offensive and defensive structures and I don't think having multiple elite tall intercepting defenders will move the needle any more than one and a competent lockdown.

Even if it means he never reaches his full potential ?
Personally I would rather have an A grade defender than maybe a winger.
We wasted 6 years trying to make Langford something he was not.
Being tall and having endurance does not make you a winger . The fact is he was so confused with the role his confidence fell away massively .

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Even if it means he never reaches his full potential ?
Personally I would rather have an A grade defender than maybe a winger.
We wasted 6 years trying to make Langford something he was not.
Being tall and having endurance does not make you a winger . The fact is he was so confused with the role his confidence fell away massively .

Just because we've failed development before I don't think we should abandon attempting it again. Some of his failings were due to lack of pressure elsewhere and getting caught out by quick transition. His confidence drop is a failure of coaching. No one attempting a new role should have that happen without poor leadership around him. One we've acknowledged and addressed.

If he doesn't make any progress this year, fine, but him as a 8/10 winger pushing forward and back to outnumber in the air would be close to the most valuable player in the competition.

 

[eth-dog]

Cox we need to settle at either end. Our wing rotation is probably our biggest strength between Langford, Durham and Martin.

 

[citizen-erased]

Trying one where the unlikely return of McKenna occurs & playing the mature options;

Ridley - Zerk - Kelly
McKenna - Laverde - Redman
McGrath - Setterfield - Martin
Parish - Weideman - Guelfi
Tippa - Wright - Stringer
Draper - Merrett - Shiel
Caldwell - Heppell - Snelling - Hind - Langford

This gives the likes of Hobbs, Perkins, Cox, Reid, Bryan & the draftees a bit of breathing space to develop and really force their way in.
I have Parish where he is as I expect our midfielders are going to be asked to do more around the ground.

 

[ant555]

Just because we've failed development before I don't think we should abandon attempting it again. Some of his failings were due to lack of pressure elsewhere and getting caught out by quick transition. His confidence drop is a failure of coaching. No one attempting a new role should have that happen without poor leadership around him. One we've acknowledged and addressed.

If he doesn't make any progress this year, fine, but him as a 8/10 winger pushing forward and back to outnumber in the air would be close to the most valuable player in the competition.

The failure was simply because he is a KP player and not a wing . It is not a natural position for him.
We are once again banging a square peg into a round hole and in five years time when he is another failed pick it will the same discussion as drafting flankers to play midfield.
Cox was a star at CHB . That is where he should play. No reinventing the wheel.

 

[citizen-erased]

The failure was simply because he is a KP player and not a wing . It is not a natural position for him.
We are once again banging a square peg into a round hole and in five years time when he is another failed pick it will the same discussion as drafting flankers to play midfield.
Cox was a star at CHB . That is where he should play. No reinventing the wheel.

if Eyre does get re-signed, I'd like to see the VFL spine run as Reid - Cox - Bryan - Eyre - Jones (maybe Reid & Eyre interchangeable given there is scope for Zach to play fwd). If we do grab Barnett, then I reckon that's Eyre done & Reid is focused on as a forward.

 

[Blind Turn]

People against Cox as a winger are conveniently overlooking the fact that he spent a year already doing a bloody good job of it and the trajectory was impressive to say the least. Our team form is the main reason for his 2nd year blues, imo, rather than him being unsuited to the role. His first year form was too impressive to discard the notion entirely thus robbing us of a potential weapon that no other team has a match for. As our group becomes more mature and work better as a unit, Cox will be that asset that drives opposition coaches nuts.

 

[Keystone agony]

I do understand both sides of the coin

It does depend a bit on others around the 22 aswell. Whether we want to play Reid or Zerk. How Durhams going, he by no means is a lock best 22 player.

Over summer i expect he will mainly train as a defender with some wing time

I think at best he plays a 3rd tall intercepting role or a rebound half back flanker. I really dont think another year on the wing would actually affect what he would or could become as a tall defender.

If Zerk is capable of holding down KPD1 keeping Reid out of the side then i think the 4 talls of Zerk, Ridley, Laverde, Cox can work down back. Still think the aim should be to get considerable game time into Reid

 

[bombreys]

Are people picking Massimo as a defender?

Hopefully. Rutten trying to switch every second player for the sake of it failed far more than it succeeded. We drafted Massimo as a running HB, that’s where we should play him

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I do understand both sides of the coin

It does depend a bit on others around the 22 aswell. Whether we want to play Reid or Zerk. How Durhams going, he by no means is a lock best 22 player.

Over summer i expect he will mainly train as a defender with some wing time

I think at best he plays a 3rd tall intercepting role or a rebound half back flanker. I really dont think another year on the wing would actually affect what he would or could become as a tall defender.

If Zerk is capable of holding down KPD1 keeping Reid out of the side then i think the 4 talls of Zerk, Ridley, Laverde, Cox can work down back. Still think the aim should be to get considerable game time into Reid

Why not both Zerk and Reid? Most sides have at least 2 KPD and a few pseudo talls.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Hopefully. Rutten trying to switch every second player for the sake of it failed far more than it succeeded. We drafted Massimo as a running HB, that’s where we should play him

I don't think that move was designed to be permanent. We had a relatively full back line and no fit or quality small forwards. The thing that was killing us the most was opposition strolling the length of the ground 20 times a game because we had no half forward pressure.

 

[Mikevk123]

B- Cox Zerk McGrath
HB- Merrett Reid Redman
C- Langford Shiel Martin
HF- Stringer Jones Guelfi
F- Menzie Wright Tipungwuti
FOLL- Draper Caldwell Parish
I/C- Ridley, Perkins, Hobbs, Setterfield, Weideman
Emerg- Durham, Ambrissio, Snelling, Bryan

 

[Keystone agony]

Why not both Zerk and Reid? Most sides have at least 2 KPD and a few pseudo talls.

The issue is all 5 of Zerk, Reid, Laverde, Cox, Ridley in the same backline. Think thats a bit big and slow

This was why until recently i was keen on seeing Cox on the wing another year

 

[Mikevk123]

The issue is all 5 of Zerk, Reid, Laverde, Cox, Ridley in the same backline. Think thats a bit big and slow

This was why until recently i was keen on seeing Cox on the wing another year

Laverde shouldn’t be best 22.

 

[bombreys]

I don't think that move was designed to be permanent. We had a relatively full back line and no fit or quality small forwards. The thing that was killing us the most was opposition strolling the length of the ground 20 times a game because we had no half forward pressure.

Definitely understand why we did it at the time. Hopefully Tippa and Davey Jr allow us to move Mass back though, I thought he looked way better back there

 

[Keystone agony]

Definitely understand why we did it at the time. Hopefully Tippa and Davey Jr allow us to move Mass back though, I thought he looked way better back there

Definitely think hes required back as you say with Tippa and Davey coming in

Also think he could well challenge Hind for his position from the get go. He defends better even though its still something to work on

Think Tippa, Davey, Snelling, Guelfi, Tex, Menzie can get us through next year with Davey and Munkara to come in future years aswell youd say

Its not an elite group but its pretty deep now

 

[Mini Dustin Fletcher]

My 22/23 is based on a specific game style that I hope we play. Based around forward pressure.

Lav Reid BZT
Redman Rids McGrath

Martin Shiel Duz
Draper Parish Stringer

Menzie Stewart Guelfi
Walla 2MP Merrett

Caldwell Hind Perkins Hobbs Langford

Cox, Snelling, Pick 5, Davey's etc etc

We were so poor in transition and locking it in our F50 that I believe we need to focus on tackles in F50. if we make that a base, then who knows...