List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading (Part 2)

[PeterSalt]

Do you have a link to the article? I can't find anything on Google or the AFL website. Not doubting you, just trying to find the article you referenced.

From the article below:

"For instance, it would have allowed Adelaide to list one of Rory Sloane or Taylor Walker as a veteran for 2024 and opened up another spot on their primary list. The idea was designed to keep veterans in the game without sacrificing a list spot that a youngster may have taken, with the veteran’s full payments still counted in the salary cap."

Roos target pick one, Dee to go on, big Dog to stay

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

There's a link in the post above

 

[Vader]

Go back and read the part I quoted

I know exactly what we need to do before draft night but if we choose NOT to delist then our hand becomes weaker

Imagine going to Geelong and asking for 8 - their first and only offer will be 10,14 because they know if we dont take the deal we will be left with 10,14 and 20 - now yes we keep 10 and 14 but are stuck with 20

If we delist someone before Draft Night then we have the option of saying ''yeah nah'' and walking away

Slight difference but we hold a better hand.

Unless of course we Adelaide it and signal our desperation early

I understand your point, but I still disagree. Our hand is infinitely weaker if we wait until after the final pre-draft list lodgement, after which we would no longer be able to delist players. However, there is no additional leverage between now and then, because they know we have that option (even if we haven't used it yet).

 

[Jarman3]

Listening to Reid on SEN this morning I think we are keen to keep Borlase if the AFL allow it

Meaning we're keen to keep him as a rookie, but not keen enough to promote him to the senior list?

 

[Redline]

Meaning we're keen to keep him as a rookie, but not keen enough to promote him to the senior list?

That's how it came accross without actuallysaying it, I'd need to go back and listen again.

 

[cmndstab]

I want to point something out that people are forgetting - and to be fair I might have wires crossed - from what I can gather our pick 20 is dead if we don't delist someone.

Is that correct?

Because as I see it if we go into draft night with a dead 20 we lose any bargaining position. Other teams will know it's a dead pick and act accordingly or we accept any scraps

tl;dr wr need to delist someone prior to the draft

Even though the main trade period has ended, clubs are able to continue trading picks (as long as the trades don't involve players) all the way up to the draft. We will presumably try to trade the picks into a smaller number of better picks, or failing that, into next year's draft.

 

[Southerntakeover]

All the crying about not improving our list through trades compared to those around us … go look at the trades completed and tell me which club was so brilliant? Who has left us in the dust?

We've been in the dust for five years. The status quo is that we're not near the pace.

We need to improve. We did not improve throughout this period. You can see the concern.

 

[Betts are off]

This is gonna be a very interesting season for our list profile IMO. In particular the games played thresholds.

Lots of players reaching the games played threshold where you see a large uptick in form and consistency.

0-30 games (12 Players): Bond, Borlase, Cook, Dowling, Gollant, Keane, Michalanney, Nankervis, Parnell, Taylor, Strachan, Worrell + 2 or 3 rookies
30-60 games (13 Players): Berry, Burgess, Butts, Hamill, Himmelberg, Hinge, McHenry, Murray, Rachele, Schoenberg, Sholl, Soligo, Thilthorpe
60-100 games (5 Players): Fogarty, Jones, Milera, Murphy, Rankine
100+ games (8 Players): Crouch, Dawson, Keays, Laird, O'Brien, Sloane, Smith, Walker

Gonna be very interesting to see what this breakdown looks like at the completion of the 2024 season. Might be a serious shuffle

 

[GreyCrow]

This is gonna be a very interesting season for our list profile IMO. In particular the games played thresholds.

Lots of players reaching the games played threshold where you see a large uptick in form and consistency.

0-30 games (12 Players): Bond, Borlase, Cook, Dowling, Gollant, Keane, Michalanney, Nankervis, Parnell, Taylor, Strachan, Worrell + 2 or 3 rookies
30-60 games (13 Players): Berry, Burgess, Butts, Hamill, Himmelberg, Hinge, McHenry, Murray, Rachele, Schoenberg, Sholl, Soligo, Thilthorpe
60-100 games (5 Players): Fogarty, Jones, Milera, Murphy, Rankine
100+ games (8 Players): Crouch, Dawson, Keays, Laird, O'Brien, Sloane, Smith, Walker

Gonna be very interesting to see what this breakdown looks like at the completion of the 2024 season. Might be a serious shuffle

The last one also has 4 x 100 and 4 x 200

As noted by ST this is where a lot of posters are annoyed.

We have identified ( the club) that we have holes in that 100+ area - especially as 1 or 2 of Walker, Smith and Sloane should be moved on after 2024 - which reduces our numbers even more

Ok we went for Lemmens and Chol and Burgess but Lemmens is the only one at 100+

Our LM still sucks and yes I expected a rebuild , yes I expected us to suck , yes I am aware there are only so many games played - but have a clear strategy of rolling 100+ players through for 2 years

 

[CountryLad]

Hi Crows board. With Sid Draper being a potential top 1-5 pick next year do you folk think there will be any interest from the Crows chasing a Future First such as the Eagles F1?
Eagles more than likely finish bottom 2, very unlikely they win enough games to not hold a top 5 pick.

 

[GreyCrow]

Hi Crows board. With Sid Draper being a potential top 1-5 pick next year do you folk think there will be any interest from the Crows chasing a Future First such as the Eagles F1?
Eagles more than likely finish bottom 2, very unlikely they win enough games to not hold a top 5 pick.

Always interested in a F1 from the Eagles - as you say its highly likely to fall within that top 5 area

Whether its for Draper is another story

So what you want for it

 

[Crow till I die]

Hi Crows board. With Sid Draper being a potential top 1-5 pick next year do you folk think there will be any interest from the Crows chasing a Future First such as the Eagles F1?
Eagles more than likely finish bottom 2, very unlikely they win enough games to not hold a top 5 pick.

I can't speak for the club, but from my perspective, I'd be for it

Ideally should a player be there at our pick 14 that you guys really want, then a deal like the carlton one where we give pick 14 and then do a swap of future firsts would appeal greatly. This scenario really only works if you guys see a player you think is a must have at that mark to do soemthing like that..but it could be a win win

 

[incorrectdisposal]

Hi Crows board. With Sid Draper being a potential top 1-5 pick next year do you folk think there will be any interest from the Crows chasing a Future First such as the Eagles F1?
Eagles more than likely finish bottom 2, very unlikely they win enough games to not hold a top 5 pick.

Definitely an option CountryLad, yes. Draper is the early bolter for 2024 "Harley Reid".
As fans we'd anticipate the Crows to have a crack at Draper and the F/S Welsh in 2024 Draft.
WCE do seem a reasonable choice for Bottom5 in 2024... but gee they'll have stiff competition from Fremantle, Port Adelaide, North Melbourne and Richmond. West Coast don't have to improve much and they win 50% of their home Optus Stadium games, win both Derby's against Freo and you're at 7-8 wins.. and the Top5 Future 1st is knackered.

 

[CountryLad]

Always interested in a F1 from the Eagles - as you say its highly likely to fall within that top 5 area

Whether its for Draper is another story

So what you want for it

Hard to say really especially since it’s on your board, I’m not here to cause a reaction just wondering if you guys felt your club would want to get up the draft board for next year.

 

[CountryLad]

Definitely an option CountryLad, yes. Draper is the early bolter for 2024 "Harley Reid".
As fans we'd anticipate the Crows to have a crack at Draper and the F/S Welsh in 2024 Draft.
WCE do seem a reasonable choice for Bottom5 in 2024... but gee they'll have stiff competition from Fremantle, Port Adelaide, North Melbourne and Richmond. West Coast don't have to improve much and they win 50% of their home Optus Stadium games, win both Derby's against Freo and you're at 7-8 wins.. and the Top5 Future 1st is knackered.

Yes risk for both clubs could also be pick one we are giving away. Certainly a gamble for both clubs.

 

[incorrectdisposal]

Hi Crows board. With Sid Draper being a potential top 1-5 pick next year do you folk think there will be any interest from the Crows chasing a Future First such as the Eagles F1?
Eagles more than likely finish bottom 2, very unlikely they win enough games to not hold a top 5 pick.

Further to your question -
My own view is that the ideal structure for 2024 for the Crows is to have a Top3 pick to secure Draper without any drama, and then a bunch of other "matching" picks from 20-40 for Welsh.
But how to achieve that... not knowing who will stink up the AFL in 2024?

What I can't fathom is what the WA clubs are doing this draft... especially with 13-14 of the Top 30 Draft prospects being WA bred.
West Coast are in a rebuild and currently only have 1 first round draft pick this year (#1, then #23)
Fremantle appear to be in a horrible spot, they only have Pick #34 this year!
CountryLad as a Sandgroper do you expect the WA clubs will swap into 2023 Round1 picks and give up their 2024 pick(s) to secure local talent? Do you want West Coast to take Harley Reid, or split Pick#1 into 2-3 first rounders? What would you do if you were Rohan OBrien?

 

[Crow till I die]

Definitely an option CountryLad, yes. Draper is the early bolter for 2024 "Harley Reid".
As fans we'd anticipate the Crows to have a crack at Draper and the F/S Welsh in 2024 Draft.
WCE do seem a reasonable choice for Bottom5 in 2024... but gee they'll have stiff competition from Fremantle, Port Adelaide, North Melbourne and Richmond. West Coast don't have to improve much and they win 50% of their home Optus Stadium games, win both Derby's against Freo and you're at 7-8 wins.. and the Top5 Future 1st is knackered.

I tell you what, if we have good 2024 draft capital and we can have a good crack at Draper or another very very high end mid or use it on Petty..I will literally cry if we go the Petty route and ignore the chance to get in a possible elite young mid..I will need therapy to get past that

 

[CountryLad]

Further to your question -
My own view is that the ideal structure for 2024 for the Crows is to have a Top3 pick to secure Draper without any drama, and then a bunch of other "matching" picks from 20-40 for Welsh.
But how to achieve that... not knowing who will stink up the AFL in 2024?

What I can't fathom is what the WA clubs are doing this draft... especially with 13-14 of the Top 30 Draft prospects being WA bred.
West Coast are in a rebuild and currently only have 1 first round draft pick this year (#1, then #23)
Fremantle appear to be in a horrible spot, they only have Pick #34 this year!
CountryLad as a Sandgroper do you expect the WA clubs will swap into 2023 Round1 picks and give up their 2024 pick(s) to secure local talent? Do you want West Coast to take Harley Reid, or split Pick#1 into 2-3 first rounders? What would you do if you were Rohan OBrien?

Personally I think we take Harley as I don’t see any reasonable offer’s currently from an Eagles perspective. I think seeing we hold pick one we need to come away with a highly rated player such as Harley or McKercher. Nth probably the only club capable as we knocked back pick 4 and F1 from the Hawks already.

I can’t see 13-14 top 30 draft prospects out of WA, probably 7 at a stretch.
(Curtin, Tholstrup, Hardeman, Edwards, Zz, Collard and Sanchez).

I agree however that grabbing a few of these guys would be a good outcome, It’s why I think trading our F1 or F2 might be a good move and grabbing a couple of these guys and getting F1 back in. What that deal looks like I’m not sure but I hope the Eagles are looking.
Plenty on our board would be against trading our F1 but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

[incorrectdisposal]

I tell you what, if we have good 2024 draft capital and we can have a good crack at Draper or another very very high end mid or use it on Petty..I will literally cry if we go the Petty route and ignore the chance to get in a possible elite young mid..I will need therapy to get past that

Fair call, and I will be in the waiting room at the therapist when you hop up off the leather chaise.

If we're naive enough to believe that no First-22 Crows player will be leaving the club next year, then we'd look at the 2024 Trade and Draft period and we want Petty in, Draper in and Welsh in. Not sure how Reidy achieves that... but that'd float my boat.

However, if a First-22 key position player is requesting a trade out and leaving a hole, then that may force that dreaded word:... compromise. Eg: if Key Fwd or Key Back leaves, our Midfield is holding up and we're banging on the door of PreLim/GF then I can see Reidy may cough up a Top5 pick for the instant sugar hit of Harrison Petty rather than hang onto it to get Draper in the Draft. With the trajectory of our squad, surely we'd sell the farm to get both.

 

[Rotayjay]

Yes it's an imperfect measure, but the below graph indicates that we got shafted more than 15 of 18 clubs:

The winners and losers of the AFL trade period by the numbers

The trade period is almost another AFL season unto itself but now the deals are done and the dust has settled this is how the biggest transactions will impact the league, write Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Crow till I die]

Yes it's an imperfect measure, but the below graph indicates that we got shafted more than 15 of 18 clubs:

View attachment 1835348

The winners and losers of the AFL trade period by the numbers

The trade period is almost another AFL season unto itself but now the deals are done and the dust has settled this is how the biggest transactions will impact the league, write Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson.

www.abc.net.au

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Would Geelong do 8 and 25 for 10, 20 and a F2?

Gets us into Wilson/Sanders/O’Sullivan territory, while we can still use 25 maybe on Goad

GEEL are rebuilding ....why would they weaken their hand at this years Draft ....they need "A" grade talent

 

[WaynesWorld19]

with Ratu being in all Australian contention up until mid-year.

Huh ? .....where was this declared ?? .....and I don't think there was any AA discussion at the mid-year mark

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It's a worry that we seemingly had cash to burn but weren't able to land anyone. That kept happening to North Melbourne.

Felt like we were on the up last season to a degree but still a way to go I guess

But did any Club .....the Trade Period was all bit players ....You'd have to say SYD did very well landing Grundy, they clearly blitzed the trade period

 

[Scorpus]

But did any Club .....the Trade Period was all bit players ....You'd have to say SYD did very well landing Grundy, they clearly blitzed the trade period

It's better to tread water on the trade front with a good draft hand than a crappy draft hand.

Clubs like Richmond and Fremantle didn't improve their list and have shit draft hands

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It's better to tread water on the trade front with a good draft hand than a crappy draft hand.

Clubs like Richmond and Fremantle didn't improve their list and have s**t draft hands

Exactly ! .....I would have thought people would have been happy with Picks #10, #14, and #20 ....we'll get some quality through the door ...hopefully, one can make an AFL contribution in 2024

Still have Nank, Berry, and Cook taking a step up

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Vader ...putting Schoenberg on the LTI ...that'll free up another list spot, correct ?