List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Hodgy]

Josh Jenkins says hello

I loved Jenkins as a footballer, but he didn’t win too many one on ones. He was great at getting up the ground and doubling back into space with great running ability, so I take your point, but the opposition would never have left him, or anyone else, for that matter, one on one in an empty 50.

Josh averages were very similar to Joe Daniher if I remember correct and so is actually a great example of how effective key forwards can be manufactured by the teams game plan if they are hard workers. This can’t happen with midfielders.

 

[GreyCrow]

I loved Jenkins as a footballer, but he didn’t win too many one on ones. He was great at getting up the ground and doubling back into space with great running ability, so I take your point, but the opposition would never have left him, or anyone else, for that matter, one on one in an empty 50.

Josh averages were very similar to Joe Daniher if I remember correct and so is actually a great example of how effective key forwards can be manufactured by the teams game plan if they are hard workers. This can’t happen with midfielders.

Fair points but coaches can still manufacture certain events

Its why I wanted Roberts from Souths because he had a deep penetrating kick and once he won the ball in Souths midfield would kick long

Thats hard to defend against a RT , Fog and Tex

Have them run 3 different ways to a long kick. Its why Laird is ineffective and Dawson has been shut down and if Burns had a clue

 

[BigFella!]

Seriously that list is a joke...

It's one person's opinion a bloke called Ely Corliss who when you research him is "jack of all trades" when it comes to sport writing

Gawn is still the most dominant ruck in the game currently and Oscar McInerney at 10?

Ely Corliss | Only Sports

onlysports.com.au

Looking at the article, it was written in January 2024, effectively trying to predict what was going to happen in season 2024. Based on the overall statistical data from 2024, the top 10 rucks have been 1. Gawn, 2. Xerri, 3. Marshall, 4. Nankervis, 5. English, 6. Grundy, 7. Cameron, 8. Witts, 9. Meek, 10. McInerney. Our very own ROB would rank 14th. Note, only 4 rucks in the top 10 are playing in the finals, and none of these are ranked in the top 4 rucks in the competition. It is arguable that finals teams make do with competitive rucks, with coaching, game plan, and elite midfielders being more important elements to the finals equation.

When you look at other positions on the ground, 3/10 top 10 defenders are from teams playing finals, 6/10 top 10 midfielders are from teams making finals, and 6/10 top 10 forwards are from teams playing finals. The Crows didn't have any top 10 defenders, zero top 10 midfielders, zero top 10 forwards, and 0 top 10 rucks; in fact, the Crows don't have any top 20 defenders or midfielders, and only Keays ranked 13th in the top 20 forwards. Hinge was our best defender at 23, and Laird was our best mid at 21. If Rankine had played every game, he would have been a top 10 forward, but outside the top 40 mids.

By contrast, Sydney have 2 top 10 per position (Heeney & Grundy), Port have 2 top 10 per position (Butters & Houston), Geelong have 1 top 10 per position (Cameron) and 5 other players in the top 20 per position, GWS have 2 top 10 per position (Whitfield & Hogan), Brisbane have 5 top 10 per position (Neale, Dunkley, McInerney, Zorko & Daniher), Carlton have 2 top 10 per position (Newman & Cripps), Bulldogs have 3 top 10 per position (English, Bontempelli & Treloar), and Hawthorn have 2 top 10 per position (Meek & Moore).

For the Crows to be a top 8 side, we need 2 top 20 defenders, a top 10 midfielder and a top 20 midfielder, a top 10 forward and a top 20 forward, and hopefully a top 10 ruck or someone pretty close to it. Having an elite coaching and development team would also work wonders, Chris Scott would be the optimal solution here, but an acolyte like Nigel Lappin with his temperament, intellect and IP would suffice with the appropriate support systems around him.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

If he's cleared, absolutely. But it'd have to be a tight leash and not cost us anything if he breaches and is sacked.

If cleared, last rookie pick, base salary. High reward if he is a changed man. If he isn't, didn't cost much anyway

 

[Cromulant]

If cleared, last rookie pick, base salary. High reward if he is a changed man. If he isn't, didn't cost much anyway

I think the problem is, he hasnt shown any real intention of performing that change.

Little bit of Michael Slater about him

 

[Mutineer]

If cleared, last rookie pick, base salary. High reward if he is a changed man. If he isn't, didn't cost much anyway

So you're completely removing public perception in a currently highly charged subject Women's/Domestic violence scenario?

He's had multiple chances and failed to show any remorse for his actions. Pass.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

So you're completely removing public perception in a currently highly charged subject Women's/Domestic violence scenario?

He's had multiple chances and failed to show any remorse for his actions. Pass.

People do change and sometimes it takes hitting absolute rock bottom to trigger it.

 

[Cromulant]

People do change and sometimes it takes hitting absolute rock bottom to trigger it.

He hit rock bottom a while back, then hit it again.

 

[crow2crow]

People do change and sometimes it takes hitting absolute rock bottom to trigger it.

he isnt changing. the afl cant have him with their other interests to protect. he will be a local league player for life now.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If he's cleared, absolutely. But it'd have to be a tight leash and not cost us anything if he breaches and is sacked.

This is the stupidity of supporters ....stand up for abuse against women causes ....but we'll overlook it, if we get a free hit recruit

The coterie's at St Kilda, as well as the women players, were what scuttled the St Kilda interest

He ain't changing his spots .....and he won't be playing AFL in the short to med term, if ever

The draftee from SYD was never heard of again ...and he was pretty talented

 

[ClaudeCurlsCrow]

Looking at the article, it was written in January 2024, effectively trying to predict what was going to happen in season 2024. Based on the overall statistical data from 2024, the top 10 rucks have been 1. Gawn, 2. Xerri, 3. Marshall, 4. Nankervis, 5. English, 6. Grundy, 7. Cameron, 8. Witts, 9. Meek, 10. McInerney. Our very own ROB would rank 14th. Note, only 4 rucks in the top 10 are playing in the finals, and none of these are ranked in the top 4 rucks in the competition. It is arguable that finals teams make do with competitive rucks, with coaching, game plan, and elite midfielders being more important elements to the finals equation.

When you look at other positions on the ground, 3/10 top 10 defenders are from teams playing finals, 6/10 top 10 midfielders are from teams making finals, and 6/10 top 10 forwards are from teams playing finals. The Crows didn't have any top 10 defenders, zero top 10 midfielders, zero top 10 forwards, and 0 top 10 rucks; in fact, the Crows don't have any top 20 defenders or midfielders, and only Keays ranked 13th in the top 20 forwards. Hinge was our best defender at 23, and Laird was our best mid at 21. If Rankine had played every game, he would have been a top 10 forward, but outside the top 40 mids.

By contrast, Sydney have 2 top 10 per position (Heeney & Grundy), Port have 2 top 10 per position (Butters & Houston), Geelong have 1 top 10 per position (Cameron) and 5 other players in the top 20 per position, GWS have 2 top 10 per position (Whitfield & Hogan), Brisbane have 5 top 10 per position (Neale, Dunkley, McInerney, Zorko & Daniher), Carlton have 2 top 10 per position (Newman & Cripps), Bulldogs have 3 top 10 per position (English, Bontempelli & Treloar), and Hawthorn have 2 top 10 per position (Meek & Moore).

For the Crows to be a top 8 side, we need 2 top 20 defenders, a top 10 midfielder and a top 20 midfielder, a top 10 forward and a top 20 forward, and hopefully a top 10 ruck or someone pretty close to it. Having an elite coaching and development team would also work wonders, Chris Scott would be the optimal solution here, but an acolyte like Nigel Lappin with his temperament, intellect and IP would suffice with the appropriate support systems around him.

how did we rank in 2023?

 

[1970crow]

So you're completely removing public perception in a currently highly charged subject Women's/Domestic violence scenario?

He's had multiple chances and failed to show any remorse for his actions. Pass.

If the AFL re-register him then that part has been signed off. It’s up to the AFL to re-register him first. And if they do that, then he can be on a list.

 

[1970crow]

This is the stupidity of supporters ....stand up for abuse against women causes ....but we'll overlook it, if we get a free hit recruit

The coterie's at St Kilda, as well as the women players, were what scuttled the St Kilda interest

He ain't changing his spots .....and he won't be playing AFL in the short to med term, if ever

The draftee from SYD was never heard of again ...and he was pretty talented

What scuttled him ultimately is that he currently isn’t cleared by the AFL to enter a draft or be picked up as a DFA. The AFL are in control of whether he is able to return to the league. If they assess the situation, knowing a lot more than you or me, and determine he’s right to go, then he’s right to go. It’s the AFL’s call, not that hard to understand.

 

[Mutineer]

If the AFL re-register him then that part has been signed off. It’s up to the AFL to re-register him first. And if they do that, then he can be on a list.

Elijah Taylor ring any bells, another prodigiosly talented junior that had already debuted in his 1st season at the Swans?

Elijah Taylor | AFL

Follow Elijah Taylor's progress through AFL

www.sydneyswans.com.au

 

[hippyhippy]

So you're completely removing public perception in a currently highly charged subject Women's/Domestic violence scenario?

He's had multiple chances and failed to show any remorse for his actions. Pass.

I think you're right. The politics would totally destroy us. We are a weak club. No way could we even consider this.

 

[Cromulant]

I think you're right. The politics would totally destroy us. We are a weak club. No way could we even consider this.

No way we would, we arent a club who likes to ruffle any feathers.

It would take a very very brave club to think they could handle this situation.

 

[hippyhippy]

No way we would, we arent a club who likes to ruffle any feathers.

It would take a very very brave club to think they could handle this situation.

Geelong could do it. I have no doubts about it. They'll just say he's reformed.. etc. Everyone would buy it

 

[JennyTalia]

I think you're right. The politics would totally destroy us. We are a weak club. No way could we even consider this.

I don't think a strong club would consider touching him either.

Bringing him in would likely ruin the one thing we have going for us - the AFLW team.

 

[Cromulant]

I don't think a strong club would consider touching him either.

Bringing him in would likely ruin the one thing we have going for us - the AFLW team.

Correct.

It's different to a Stengle type situation where drugs aren't a good look, and getting caught is a worse look.... but DV is a whole different ball game.

 

[Toucan Ocean]

If cleared, last rookie pick, base salary. High reward if he is a changed man. If he isn't, didn't cost much anyway

Except significant reputational harm to the club and needless distraction from the rest of the team’s efforts.

He might’ve had a hope of playing at the top level again back in the 90s but not in 2024.

Things have changed - in this case, for the better.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

What scuttled him ultimately is that he currently isn’t cleared by the AFL to enter a draft or be picked up as a DFA. The AFL are in control of whether he is able to return to the league. If they assess the situation, knowing a lot more than you or me, and determine he’s right to go, then he’s right to go. It’s the AFL’s call, not that hard to understand.

But you're in favour of getting Thomas ....enough said

 

[tinman]

They are taken that high occasionally. Kreuzer and Nik Nat are recent examples, but in general clubs don’t draft ruckman that high because they are so hard to evaluate as juniors, and they take so long to develop. Look at English, who has taken 6 years and now is a genuine match winner for them. But footy history is littered with ruckman being dominant in successful teams going back to Dean Cox who is still one of my favorite players ever, to Jim Stynes, Max Gawn and Aaron Sandilands, who could all arguably be considered their teams most important player.

Cox, Stynes and Sandilands all were rookie selections

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

He hit rock bottom a while back, then hit it again.

Didn't he only abuse or threaten a woman via phone?

I've had abusive ex girlfriends do that many times, love to get them sacked

 

[Floating Doughnut]

Except significant reputational harm to the club and needless distraction from the rest of the team’s efforts.

He might’ve had a hope of playing at the top level again back in the 90s but not in 2024.

Things have changed - in this case, for the better.

Peter Burgoyne , Adam Heuskes and Michael O’Loughlin like this post.

 

[BigFella!]

how did we rank in 2023?

In 2023 O'Brien ranked 7th in ruck, Dawson and Laird ranked 7th and 10th in Midfield, Walker and Keays ranked 12th and 17th in Forwards and Hinge was our highest ranked defender at 40. The higher rankings correspond with our higher finish last year, but our lack of top 20 defenders cost the Crows about 5 games last year which meant we didn't play finals. Yes, I know there is the missed goal review game against Sydney, but there were other games last year we were in a position to win but lost.

This year, Hinge improved, but was still outside the top 20, Dawson and Laird fell down in rankings past the top 20, O'Brien dropped in rankings, and Walker dropped in rankings. With no one stepping up, this saw the Crows fall down the ladder.

If we look at 2017, the Crows had Atkins and Smith ranked 18th and 22nd in Defence; Crouch, Sloane and Laird ranked 3, 5 and 10 in the Midfield, Jacobs ranked 1st in Ruck, and Douglas, Walker and Betts ranked 17th, 25th and 29th up Forward. Our midfield was elite, which hid some of the deficiencies down back and up forward. These deficiencies were found out against Richmond on Grand Final day. For Richmond, Rance, Houli and Astbury were ranked 7th, 17th and 29th in Defence, Cotchin and Ellis were ranked 8 and 29 in the Midfield, which also had Martin rotating between forward and midfield, where Martin was the 2nd best midfielder and the best forward. Up Forward, Richmond also had Lambert and Riewoldt ranked 12th and 27th respectively; finally they had Nankervis in the ruck who was ranked 5th. Rance and Houli were the difference down back, and Martin was a menace through the midfield and up forward. This highlights when the Crows had several top 10 - 20 players they played finals, and made it to the Grand Final; but they still had positional weaknesses that were exposed on Grand Final day by higher rated opponents.