List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading

[Scorpus]

I don't think we picked the players you mentioned hoping that they could transition into another position. They sucked at their primary position and were moved into lesser roles.

Players like Gooch, Jones, McHenry are just bad draft picks that weren't good enough to make it in the midfield at AFL level.

I can't recall us trying McHenry as a midfielder at any level, as an example.

Gallucci we were hell bent on using as an outside midfielder or small forward when it was clear he's an inside mid.

Jones is maybe an example of us trying him in his preferred position and failing.

 

[cleanhands]

cleanhands - anything to add...

? I didn’t know Jim’s wife that well, and I’m happy to take a DNA test

 

[MRB37]

Correct approach too, for Finals ....unless you want pretty boy players who play well in minor round games, but falter in Finals

Are Rachelle, Rankine, Dawson, Milera, McAdam, and Cook, short on Skills ?

Or are you criticising the selection of Berry, Pedlar, or Hinge ?

None of them are full-time mids and it's a bit premature to proclaim Pedlar or Hinge a success.

The point is you can pick those guys, but at a certain point you can't just stack your entire engine room with those types and you need to diversify it a bit. The fact we had to spend the last two years spending 1st round picks on bringing in guys like Dawson and Rankine and they stick out like dogs balls in our side in how clean they are highlights how much skill as a whole the side lacks.

 

[George Kramer]

None of them are full-time mids and it's a bit premature to proclaim Pedlar or Hinge a success.

The point is you can pick those guys, but at a certain point you can't just stack your entire engine room with those types and you need to diversify it a bit. The fact we had to spend the last two years spending 1st round picks on bringing in guys like Dawson and Rankine and they stick out like dogs balls in our side in how clean they are highlights how much skill as a whole the side lacks.

Wayne used to be keen on a tall contested marking mid, doesn’t mention it much anymore

 

[crow2crow]

Maybe TT can be given a license to roam where he thinks he can be most damaging rest in the F50 with Welsh providing a chop-out (as it looks like Welsh can be quite mobile as well). There's the big-bodied mid(s) we've been screaming out for.

lets hope

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Wayne used to be keen on a tall contested marking mid, doesn’t mention it much anymore

I think Dawson has proven my point .....players who can take contested marks are Gold ....allows you to set up offensive plays, rather than scambling kicks fwd, or having the ball rebound back into your D50

My point was always contested marks between HF - HB .....Fyfe, Cripps, Dangerfield, and Bont, of the current crop of AFL players

ROB should be performing that function for us .....but isn't anywhere near consistently

 

[George Kramer]

I think Dawson has proven my point .....players who can take contested marks are Gold ....allows you to set up offensive plays, rather than scambling kicks fwd, or having the ball rebound back into your D50

My point was always contested marks between HF - HB .....Fyfe, Cripps, Dangerfield, and Bont, of the current crop of AFL players

ROB should be performing that function for us .....but isn't anywhere near consistently

He does but he’s not playing midfield.

You’re happy with the mids we’ve drafted and there isn’t one tall contested marking mid in the lot of them

 

[WaynesWorld19]

He does but he’s not playing midfield.

You’re happy with the mids we’ve drafted and there isn’t one tall contested marking mid in the lot of them

By the list I've put forward, contested marking mids are not easy to find .....we saw with Burton how valuable marking players are, McAdam turns into a hard matchup, due to aerial & ground abilities

TBF, I'm struggling to think of a player drafted recently that fits the bill ...Mitch Georgiades is a player that would have fitted the bill, Drafted @ #18 too, in 2019

 

[jackster83]

I can't recall us trying McHenry as a midfielder at any level, as an example.

Gallucci we were hell bent on using as an outside midfielder or small forward when it was clear he's an inside mid.

Jones is maybe an example of us trying him in his preferred position and failing.

I've remember seeing McHenry get a CBA, definitively win the clearance and then not get another go in there for the rest of the game.

Think it was the Brisbane game where Hinge played against us.

 

[Gtowncrow]

More that Jim didn't play 100 games for us. In terms of your humour though, I think the stats are something like 10% of people aren't sired by the person they believe is their father. Would be some form of relief to me, but sadly, I think I'm all Ray.

"Your mother is your mother. And your father is who your mother says."

 

[AFC979810]

I think Dawson has proven my point .....players who can take contested marks are Gold ....allows you to set up offensive plays, rather than scambling kicks fwd, or having the ball rebound back into your D50

My point was always contested marks between HF - HB .....Fyfe, Cripps, Dangerfield, and Bont, of the current crop of AFL players

ROB contested marks per game - 1.55
Dawson contested marks per game - .77

When looking at the strength of Fyfe/Cripps/Danger/Bont - their contested marking is pretty far down the order of what makes them so brilliant.

ROB should be performing that function for us .....but isn't anywhere near consistently

Even at ROB's peak (2020) he was only averaging 1.94 contested marks a game. So in 2022 he averaged one less contested mark every 3 games. Hardly a massive issue.

 

[AFC979810]

I can't recall us trying McHenry as a midfielder at any level, as an example.

Gallucci we were hell bent on using as an outside midfielder or small forward when it was clear he's an inside mid.

Jones is maybe an example of us trying him in his preferred position and failing.

I think there is a fair bit behind the scenes that goes into it as well. How they train, how they look against AFL players in 1 on 1's, match sims, trial games etc.

Nicks has shown he is more than happy to give young players a run through the midfield. Berry, Schoenberg, Soligo, Rachele, Hately, Poholke, Jones and even Ronin O'Conner were given midfield time at AFL level.

The fact that Ned hasn't spent any time in the coal face says more about him than the way we develop players IMO.

 

[crow2crow]

ROB contested marks per game - 1.55
Dawson contested marks per game - .77

When looking at the strength of Fyfe/Cripps/Danger/Bont - their contested marking is pretty far down the order of what makes them so brilliant.



Even at ROB's peak (2020) he was only averaging 1.94 contested marks a game. So in 2022 he averaged one less contested mark every 3 games. Hardly a massive issue.

I'd like to see the stats of jordans and ROBs last 20 games contested marking

I'm sure it would tell different story

 

[Mutineer]

I'd like to see the stats of jordans and ROBs last 20 games contested marking

I'm sure it would tell different story

Except it doesn't, to simplify it for you O'Brien averaged exactly double the contested marks per game in 2022.
Easily accessible stats on footy wire...

 

[BRL121]

I'd like to see the stats of jordans and ROBs last 20 games contested marking

I'm sure it would tell different story

I think that the absolute number of contested marks is only half the story. We also need to know the number dropped!
The blunders need to be eliminated. He was not too bad in that department on Friday, but the kicking has reverted to rubbish again.

 

[DJ75]

They probably see Pedlar developing into that midfield bull.

He's not the bull type. He's explosive yes, but not a Cripps/Fyfe/Oliver type

 

[skittlebrew]

I don't think we picked the players you mentioned hoping that they could transition into another position. They sucked at their primary position and were moved into lesser roles.

Players like Gooch, Jones, McHenry are just bad draft picks that weren't good enough to make it in the midfield at AFL level.

Bingo, exactly this.

I can't recall us trying McHenry as a midfielder at any level, as an example.

Gallucci we were hell bent on using as an outside midfielder or small forward when it was clear he's an inside mid.

Jones is maybe an example of us trying him in his preferred position and failing.

Ned struggles enough in lessor roles, do you think he'll come good playing a harder position?

Imagine Ned lining up against Petracca, Cripps etc...

 

[skittlebrew]

He's not the bull type. He's explosive yes, but not a Cripps/Fyfe/Oliver type

Correct - he just doesn't have the body size and strength.

Line breaking speed yes, but not tackle breaking strength in hips, legs and torso.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

OMG 49 games to Ned. How many would he had at another club. I suppose the good thing is we are giving him chances to establish himself although the breakout has to happen soon.

It never will. He just doesn't have what it takes.

 

[Crow till I die]

None of them are full-time mids and it's a bit premature to proclaim Pedlar or Hinge a success.

The point is you can pick those guys, but at a certain point you can't just stack your entire engine room with those types and you need to diversify it a bit. The fact we had to spend the last two years spending 1st round picks on bringing in guys like Dawson and Rankine and they stick out like dogs balls in our side in how clean they are highlights how much skill as a whole the side lacks.

But in a way, maybe that is our pathway to possible success. Rather than take our 1st to the draft this year, should we be trying to tempt a GC to part with hollands for a couple of good 1sts (our 2023 and f1) this year (not saying they would do it but surely its worth a real crack), but he for example would address a real need, looks to have a very high ceiling AND he is a midfielder with a real AFC connection.

If we could bring in top draw younger talent via trade, then so be it...forget worrying abput using the high picks over the next few years at the draft.

 

[DJ75]

Ned should have been a player that stood out in the yellow team - if he was an AFL quality player.

Instead he looked like a top up that constantly gave away dumb free kicks and should be dragged. Some of the stuff he does is just ridiculous and kills momentum.

 

[George Kramer]

Ned should have been a player that stood out in the yellow team - if he was an AFL quality player.

Instead he looked like a top up that constantly gave away dumb free kicks and should be dragged. Some of the stuff he does is just ridiculous and kills momentum.

What I noticed at the ground was how vocal he was at the other players, almost as if he was telling them off. I’d tell him to **** off

 

[Mutineer]

Correct - he just doesn't have the body size and strength.

Line breaking speed yes, but not tackle breaking strength in hips, legs and torso.

Think you need to see a bit more of Pedlar before you arrive at that take.

 

[pushintheback]

We've selected a lot of players over the years we hope can transition from one position into another but rarely do.

Gallucci from mid into small forward
Jones from mid into small defender/wing/forward
McHenry from mid to small forward
McAsey from tall defender to tall forward
Murphy from small defender/mid to small forward
Milera from half forward to mid/half back
Knight from mid to half forward

You could probably go back as far as Brodie Smith who we hoped to transition out of half back.

If you need players in those positions why not just select players that are elite in that position? If you need a small forward for example, don't pick Gallucci or McHenry, pick Shai Bolton and Bobby Hill. Get specialists not generalists.

With the way our list is right now we definitely need to be hitting the draft to get a big midfielder, a tall defender, a ruck and probably an outside midfielder

I couldn't agree more. Yes there are always players that can play multiple positions but we need to do what the Vic big clubs do and that is recruit players that are genuine specialists in their position. From memory Gallucci played Vic Metro at HB but we brought him in as a small fwd. I think sometimes we try and be too creative.

 

[rabidcrow]

Ned should have been a player that stood out in the yellow team - if he was an AFL quality player.

Instead he looked like a top up that constantly gave away dumb free kicks and should be dragged. Some of the stuff he does is just ridiculous and kills momentum.

I noted in the stats put forward Ned gave away 3 frees. In a bloody internal trial. Seems to be a consistent issue with him even after 4 years


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