List Mgmt. 2025 List Mismanagement and Trading

[1970crow]

I'm ambivalent on these 2. I would like to see Wayne put in a solid season

But I do feel he will get the injury extension - ie 2 years to ''prove himself''

I would also monitor Matts input + what we have coming through and ask him if he can find another club we wont stand in his way - or we give another 2 years

Matt will be a free agent, nothing we can do if he wants to go. With Tex, Smith and Burgess absolute certainties, I'd be surprised if we cut deep enough to get to both Milera and Crouch. Unless we have a terrible year and there's wholesale change at the top. But we're in that kind of situation where a board won't be accepting a rebuild, they'll be looking only at coaches that say we've got a competing list already, so even mass sackings probably won't change anything.

 

[Vader]

I'm ambivalent on these 2. I would like to see Wayne put in a solid season

But I do feel he will get the injury extension - ie 2 years to ''prove himself''

I would also monitor Matts input + what we have coming through and ask him if he can find another club we wont stand in his way - or we give another 2 years

I can see Milera getting a 12-month injury extension. Not sure he would get 2 years to "prove himself".

 

[119others]

23 in a side. Wish it was 5 on the bench without the sub

Then you could play

8 Talls two as back ups on the bench
1 Ruck
15 smalls-Mediums

F Walker Fogarty Rachele
HF Keays Thilthorpe Neale-Bullen
C Sholl Crouch Peatling
HB Max Murray Cumming
B Keane Butts Laird
R O'Brien Rankine Dawson
I Curtin Worrell Soligo Hinge Dowling

looking like our best squad for many years inc the names on the bench. that said no way Hinge isnt in starting 18 in my view. so perhaps hinge hbf, max to bp, laird bench.

 

[GreyCrow]

I can see Milera getting a 12-month injury extension. Not sure he would get 2 years to "prove himself".

I see you've not met the AFC board yet

 

[WaynesWorld19]

looking like our best squad for many years inc the names on the bench. that said no way Hinge isnt in starting 18 in my view. so perhaps hinge hbf, max to bp, laird bench.

People laughed and rolled their eyes at my comment, we have one of the best lists now in the Clubs history

In addition to this side, players missing are ....Pedlar, #4 this year, Milera, Zac Taylor, Cook, Edwards, and Oscar Ryan ....all of whom have very bright futures ...that's another 7 players, indicating quality of depth, just requiring experience

F Walker Fogarty Rachele
HF Keays Thilthorpe Neale-Bullen
C Sholl Crouch Peatling
HB Max Murray Cumming
B Keane Butts Laird
R O'Brien Rankine Dawson
I Curtin Worrell Soligo Hinge Dowling

 

[119others]

People laughed and rolled their eyes at my comment, we have one of the best lists now in the Clubs history

In addition to this side, players missing are ....Pedlar, #4 this year, Milera, Zac Taylor, Cook, Edwards, and Oscar Ryan ....all of whom have very bright futures ...that's another 7 players, indicating quality of depth, just requiring experience

F Walker Fogarty Rachele
HF Keays Thilthorpe Neale-Bullen
C Sholl Crouch Peatling
HB Max Murray Cumming
B Keane Butts Laird
R O'Brien Rankine Dawson
I Curtin Worrell Soligo Hinge Dowling

yes agreed. and i also agree that IF our many high draft picks do become elite joining Rankine and Dawson - TT (very confident), Rachele (pretty confident), pick 4 and Curtin and a number of others also a good chance (Worrell, Murray, Max). Plus the amt of very strong B+ ceiling (or better) types in Fog, Soligo, Hinge. All 3 mature INs are B graders as a minimum and potentially much better - esp Peatling. As you say last years haul inc Ryan and Edwards I a very excited about. Pedlar if injuries and motivation is there shows me he could be an excellent AFL player

And we have effectively a full draft hand going forward and I imagine a very good salary cap position. And very balanced squad only needing to replace a ruckman as a real priority. I would love us to go for FA De Koning from Blues with a big offer - very hard to achieve but give it a crack

I agree this could not only end up being our best ever list within a couple of years (the above players maturing AND more trades/drafts) but also a VERY long premiership window due to the young age and inexperience.

I agree its the ability to project out players ability. 20 years ago I started a thread (previous username) along the lines of 3 very unfairly maligned players at the Crows that most fans hated - Nathan Bock, Michael Doughty and Ian Perrie. All went on to decent-very good careers but at the time hardly anyone agreed with me that they had talent

PS with your 7 extras I dont rate Cook as much as others - would love to be proven wrong. Milera I love as a player but is one major injury away from his career probably being over unfortunately. Taylor I think is a B grade player at best but happy to be wrong

 

[GreyCrow]

So multiple flags then?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

PS with your 7 extras I dont rate Cook as much as others - would love to be proven wrong. Milera I love as a player but is one major injury away from his career probably being over unfortunately. Taylor I think is a B grade player at best but happy to be wrong

Cook was in my list, from the perspective that in 2024, he looked to understand his role and played with way more assurity

His positioning improved, his confidence overhead looked confident, and he was composed .....huge in-roads made IMO

 

[1970crow]

People laughed and rolled their eyes at my comment, we have one of the best lists now in the Clubs history

In addition to this side, players missing are ....Pedlar, #4 this year, Milera, Zac Taylor, Cook, Edwards, and Oscar Ryan ....all of whom have very bright futures ...that's another 7 players, indicating quality of depth, just requiring experience

F Walker Fogarty Rachele
HF Keays Thilthorpe Neale-Bullen
C Sholl Crouch Peatling
HB Max Murray Cumming
B Keane Butts Laird
R O'Brien Rankine Dawson
I Curtin Worrell Soligo Hinge Dowling

I see you've added in, "one of" in front of "the best list". Your statement above is not the same as the statement you made when people rolled their eyes. You stated that this is the best list in the club's entire history. Not one of. Own your rampant stupidity.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I see you've added in, "one of" in front of "the best list". Your statement above is not the same as the statement you made when people rolled their eyes. You stated that this is the best list in the club's entire history. Not one of. Own your rampant stupidity.

OK typically you just shoot from the hip .....so I'll give you the opportunity to name the best list the Crows have had ....and then I'll debate it with you

Over to you mate

 

[1990crow]

OK typically you just shoot from the hip .....so I'll give you the opportunity to name the best list the Crows have had ....and then I'll debate it with you

Over to you mate

2012 list

Seniors
Thompson, VB, Reilly, Doughty, Douglas, Callinan, Vince, Johncock, Knights, Jacobs, Rutten, Porplyzia

Emerging
Talia, Dangerfield, Walker, Sloane, Smith, Lynch, Jenkins, Tippett, Otten, Mackay, Henderson

Kids
Laird, Crouch, Brown, Lyons

 

[119others]

OK typically you just shoot from the hip .....so I'll give you the opportunity to name the best list the Crows have had ....and then I'll debate it with you

Over to you mate

I wont try and speak for 1970 but IMO clearly its the PROJECTING you (and I) are making which is the key issue here. If we end up with 8+ elite players from our current list (doable IMO) then it will surpass lathe golden era of 1997-2006 which clearly would be considered our greatest ever list and success (2 flags and 3 more prelims in 10 years).

We had absolute champs in the above era - Macca, Jars, Roo, Hart, Smart, Rehn, Goody is an incredible core - now the current team does not project to have as many absolute champions of the game but it does have a much more balanced and quality of depth. With what I imagine as ample salary cap room still based on comments made both publicly and Silvers mentioned in Brissie last year , we can continue to bring in A graders thru trade or FA. If for example, this is a stretch but not impossible, we brought in NWM next yr via trade (probably best part of 2 x 1st rounders) AND a gun free agent (would love De Koning) I would think we would rival GC as the best list and best change at flags for the next 5-7 years

We are in a very good position going forward IMO. Exciting long lasting premiership window opening soon

 

[119others]

2012 list

Seniors
Thompson, VB, Reilly, Doughty, Douglas, Callinan, Vince, Johncock, Knights, Jacobs, Rutten, Porplyzia

Emerging
Talia, Dangerfield, Walker, Sloane, Smith, Lynch, Jenkins, Tippett, Otten, Mackay, Henderson

Kids
Laird, Crouch, Brown, Lyons

theres a few very limited Senior players in 2012....Callinan we used to have one poster crapping on about how good he was but he was so slow and always going to get found out in finals where he was absolutely useless in the 2012 prelim. Reilly only one very good yr when playing loose. Knights and Porps both good on their day (esp Porps who I really rated) but injured a lot. VB overall was underwhelming. Doughty good solid player but never more than a B grader (at best)

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I wont try and speak for 1970 but IMO clearly its the PROJECTING you (and I) are making which is the key issue here. If we end up with 8+ elite players from our current list (doable IMO) then it will surpass lathe golden era of 1997-2006 which clearly would be considered our greatest ever list and success (2 flags and 3 more prelims in 10 years).

We had absolute champs in the above era - Macca, Jars, Roo, Hart, Smart, Rehn, Goody is an incredible core - now the current team does not project to have as many absolute champions of the game but it does have a much more balanced and quality of depth. With what I imagine as ample salary cap room still based on comments made both publicly and Silvers mentioned in Brissie last year , we can continue to bring in A graders thru trade or FA. If for example, this is a stretch but not impossible, we brought in NWM next yr via trade (probably best part of 2 x 1st rounders) AND a gun free agent (would love De Koning) I would think we would rival GC as the best list and best change at flags for the next 5-7 years

We are in a very good position going forward IMO. Exciting long lasting premiership window opening soon

Remembering, each year we'll overlay more talent .....retention of players will be an issue IMO

Yes it's projecting that influence my POV ....but I don't think I've been outlandish in identifying 15 A grade players on the list by the end of this Draft period

 

[WaynesWorld19]

2012 list

Seniors
Thompson, VB, Reilly, Doughty, Douglas, Callinan, Vince, Johncock, Knights, Jacobs, Rutten, Porplyzia

Emerging
Talia, Dangerfield, Walker, Sloane, Smith, Lynch, Jenkins, Tippett, Otten, Mackay, Henderson

Kids
Laird, Crouch, Brown, Lyons

You mean the same Doughty, Reilly, Douglas, that were this boards whipping boys .....ala MacKay, who you've also named as emerging

Jenkins over Thilthorpe ?
Tippett = Fogarty
Otten never reached his potential

Nah, not in the ballpark of discussion

 

[1990crow]

You mean the same Doughty, Reilly, Douglas, that were this boards whipping boys .....ala MacKay, who you've also named as emerging

Jenkins over Thilthorpe ?
Tippett = Fogarty
Otten never reached his potential

Nah, not in the ballpark of discussion

Yes? Average senior players and big list of young talented players.

Better midfield talents in 2012.

Sloane > Soligo
Dangerfield > Rankine
Walker, Tippett > Thilthorpe, Fogarty
Smith > Hinge/Cumming
Talia > Murray/Butts

 

[119others]

Remembering, each year we'll overlay more talent .....retention of players will be an issue IMO

Yes it's projecting that influence my POV ....but I don't think I've been outlandish in identifying 15 A grade players on the list by the end of this Draft period

OK mate, lets have the 15 A graders? Would like to see the list

I get a slightly lesser number unless really projecting (Edwards, Ryan, Peatling, Cumming etc)

 

[Scorpus]

You mean the same Doughty, Reilly, Douglas, that were this boards whipping boys .....ala MacKay, who you've also named as emerging

Jenkins over Thilthorpe ?
Tippett = Fogarty
Otten never reached his potential

Nah, not in the ballpark of discussion

If we're talking potential and what each player would become, our 2014 list had:

11x All Australians
5x Multiple All Australians
An 8x All Australian and Brownlow medallist who was the best player in the game for a period
A 600 goal tall forward
A 600 goal small forward
A 400 goal small forward
A 300 goal ruck forward
A 200 goal half forward
8x best and fairest winners
18x All Australian squad of 40 members
14x 200 game players

I don't think 15 A grade players (at their peak) is enough to be our best list when factoring in player potential

 

[1990crow]

If we're talking potential and what each player would become, our 2014 list had:

11x All Australians
5x Multiple All Australians
An 8x All Australian and Brownlow medallist who was the best player in the game for a period
A 600 goal tall forward
A 600 goal small forward
A 400 goal small forward
A 300 goal ruck forward
A 200 goal half forward
8x best and fairest winners
18x All Australian squad of 40 members
14x 200 game players

I don't think 15 A grade players (at their peak) is enough to be our best list when factoring in player potential

That 2012 to 2017 team under achieved IMO. Bit of poor coaching, team disunity, self confidence issues.

 

[Scorpus]

That 2012 to 2017 team under achieved IMO. Bit of poor coaching, team disunity, self confidence issues.

Well to be fair some of those players peaked at different times, for example Rutten retired after the end of 2014 and Charlie Cameron was just starting out

Our current list has five AA40 squad members (Walker, Smith, Laird, Crouch, Dawson) so we have a long way to go to have 18 on the list at the same time like in 2014. Lots of future projecting on potential.

Do we have another 13 AA40 calibre players outside of the above on the list? Do we have two 600 goal forwards? Do we have someone that will be the best player in the game?

 

[1990crow]

Well to be fair some of those players peaked at different times, for example Rutten retired after the end of 2014 and Charlie Cameron was just starting out

Our current list has five AA40 squad members (Walker, Smith, Laird, Crouch, Dawson) so we have a long way to go to have 18 on the list at the same time like in 2014. Lots of future projecting on potential.

Do we have another 13 AA40 calibre players outside of the above on the list? Do we have two 600 goal forwards? Do we have someone that will be the best player in the game?

Well by the time any number of our young players get there Walker, Smith, Laird and Crouch will all likely be gone so will need 17.

 

[Scorpus]

And before someone says our 2014 list wasn't a "high potential" list...

Dangerfield had played fewer games than Dawson
Eddie Betts was younger than Ben Keays

2

Ben Keays

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

13.7

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

Walker was younger than Fogarty

And we had the following players on less than 100 games, which included seven future All Australians:

Jacobs
Sloane
Walker
Talia
Smith
Lynch
Jenkins
Laird
B. Crouch
M. Crouch
Lyons
Cameron

And this squad failed to make finals by the way. We made finals the following year (equivalent of 2026 for our current squad) and a grand final four years later (equivalent of 2028)

 

[1970crow]

I wont try and speak for 1970 but IMO clearly its the PROJECTING you (and I) are making which is the key issue here. If we end up with 8+ elite players from our current list (doable IMO) then it will surpass lathe golden era of 1997-2006 which clearly would be considered our greatest ever list and success (2 flags and 3 more prelims in 10 years).

We had absolute champs in the above era - Macca, Jars, Roo, Hart, Smart, Rehn, Goody is an incredible core - now the current team does not project to have as many absolute champions of the game but it does have a much more balanced and quality of depth. With what I imagine as ample salary cap room still based on comments made both publicly and Silvers mentioned in Brissie last year , we can continue to bring in A graders thru trade or FA. If for example, this is a stretch but not impossible, we brought in NWM next yr via trade (probably best part of 2 x 1st rounders) AND a gun free agent (would love De Koning) I would think we would rival GC as the best list and best change at flags for the next 5-7 years

We are in a very good position going forward IMO. Exciting long lasting premiership window opening soon

8 elite players is a massive stretch, currently we have Rankine, TT and Dawson. I don't think any of the traded in players will get to regular A grade level and obviously pick 4 is an unknown, but A grade shouldn't be beyond any of the top few in this year's draft. What I see as a major variation is that back in the years you mentioned, our best players reached extremely high levels and stayed there season after season. Compare that to these days, Laird our best by a mile, 2 AAs and then a handful of years as a high level midfielder. Other than that, Tex 1 year AA, Sloane 1 year AA, Smith 1 year AA, Crouch 1 year AA, ROB one year B&F, Dawson AA in second year and not in squad year following. For whatever reason, over the last many years, our players show their peak for a year but rarely repeat it. Laird the exception, but look at him now, just phoned it in this season.

I agree that our best 23 is pretty solid, has enough genuine talent to start playing finals and the weakest links aren't weak and there's some nice junior depth that has showed they should play ahead of the 100 game Murphy types. But I'm not confident that our club can challenge itself and the players to keep them at their peaks long enough for us to contend multiple years. And we definitely still need a much more damaging midfield, but the raw ingredients might be there, we just need to use them and expand our rotations.

 

[1970crow]

OK typically you just shoot from the hip .....so I'll give you the opportunity to name the best list the Crows have had ....and then I'll debate it with you

Over to you mate

I will as soon as you admit that your original statement was "best ever" and you then deliberately misled by changing it to "one of best ever". Admit it and I'll respond. Not that I need to, you've already retreated from your originally ludicrous position, so you know that we've had better lists during our history.

 

[crows dude]

Even our 1997-98 premiership sides had a lot of duds
But we had a good core of up and coming guns. 21 Year Olds MCleod, Edwards, 20 Year Old Goodwin, 19 Year Johnson.

Guys like Ben Hart

Ben Hart

Age

50

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

0.8

3star

and Roo were already champions but only 23. These came to us through our oringial squads that we were able to assemble.

Rehn was only 26. Jarman a gun at 30. Probably our oldest player. We were so young that we should have been up ther for 5-7 years. Ayres got us 11th, 8th and 3rd before falling back down again in 2003 and 2004. 1999-2001 we should have finished higeher