List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Aphrodite]

New year, new thread.

 

[gbatman]

What hasn't?

McGovern's contract or any other players contract. It hasn't cost us any significant potential recruits, existing players or created salary cap or list management issues. I don't see what the problem people have with McGovern's contract it's cost us nothing. If anything it probably helped us meet out TPP at the time a keep our future stars salaries in check.

 

[Coona Blues]

McGovern's contract or any other players contract. It hasn't cost us any significant potential recruits, existing players or created salary cap or list management issues. I don't see what the problem people have with McGovern's contract it's cost us nothing. If anything it probably helped us meet out TPP at the time a keep our future stars salaries in check.

Absolutely crazy logic.

We have never received “bang for buck” from McGovern. He was recruited on big bucks based on cameos (and probably Teague recommendation). With the McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (and later TDK) group in development, along with Levi to support, he was never the “need” he was promoted as. We overpaid significantly, and from reports was in a pretty “flat” contract, without the significant front ending of others.

I happily concede that a fit McGovern makes us a better side coming out of defence. Unfortunately, not in the role he was recruited for. Hardly the forward “mentor” we needed. Your slant on things seems very skewed.

His situation beyond 2023 will be fascinating. Even if he has a stellar season, for mine, will still owe the club significantly. Unlike others, his injuries are as much his own doing as “bad luck”. Failure to prepare, and all that rhetoric. Surely his contract will be significantly reduced, and simply, more of the same will result in no contract offer at all.

One of those players who is an asset when fit, but is a bit of a luxury priced bonus, particularly if Marchbank can get his injury issues sorted and more significantly for mine, Kemp continues to develop as expected. The addition of Cowan suggests that we are looking at generation next in defence already, despite Doc, Saad, Williams and even Newman having multiple seasons in front of them.

I hope I am wrong, but McGovern has been rumoured to be looking at a return to his wife’s home state of SA or even joining his big brother for a season or two “somewhere” (won’t get that indulgence with us). I find it hard to see him remaining on two or three hundred thousand less per season. I don’t see us overpaying to keep him either, when we are signing others on salaries below market value.

By your logic we should have kept the petulant Stocker on a decent contract based on ability over output. BTW will be a tough year for Paddy Dow. His inflated contract (some rumours have it as high as $500k) against his output will mean we are more invested in Carroll and the draftees, even Ed and perhaps a released Kemp could be prioritised (apologies to Philp, Honey and Fog who haven’t had a good run at it either). Doc likely will have midfield time to accommodate our oversupply of half backs. Dow is a decent (or better) ball winner, but will have to find the will and capacity to work off the ball to continue his career here or elsewhere.

I don’t wish to “knock” any of our players, but the above are pragmatic views of where they are at going forward.

 

[Blue Flame]

Absolutely crazy logic.

We have never received “bang for buck” from McGovern. He was recruited on big bucks based on cameos (and probably Teague recommendation). With the McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (and later TDK) group in development, along with Levi to support, he was never the “need” he was promoted as. We overpaid significantly, and from reports was in a pretty “flat” contract, without the significant front ending of others.

I happily concede that a fit McGovern makes us a better side coming out of defence. Unfortunately, not in the role he was recruited for. Hardly the forward “mentor” we needed. Your slant on things seems very skewed.

His situation beyond 2023 will be fascinating. Even if he has a stellar season, for mine, will still owe the club significantly. Unlike others, his injuries are as much his own doing as “bad luck”. Failure to prepare, and all that rhetoric. Surely his contract will be significantly reduced, and simply, more of the same will result in no contract offer at all.

One of those players who is an asset when fit, but is a bit of a luxury priced bonus, particularly if Marchbank can get his injury issues sorted and more significantly for mine, Kemp continues to develop as expected. The addition of Cowan suggests that we are looking at generation next in defence already, despite Doc, Saad, Williams and even Newman having multiple seasons in front of them.

I hope I am wrong, but McGovern has been rumoured to be looking at a return to his wife’s home state of SA or even joining his big brother for a season or two “somewhere” (won’t get that indulgence with us). I find it hard to see him remaining on two or three hundred thousand less per season. I don’t see us overpaying to keep him either, when we are signing others on salaries below market value.

By your logic we should have kept the petulant Stocker on a decent contract based on ability over output. BTW will be a tough year for Paddy Dow. His inflated contract (some rumours have it as high as $500k) against his output will mean we are more invested in Carroll and the draftees, even Ed and perhaps a released Kemp could be prioritised (apologies to Philp, Honey and Fog who haven’t had a good run at it either). Doc likely will have midfield time to accommodate our oversupply of half backs. Dow is a decent (or better) ball winner, but will have to find the will and capacity to work off the ball to continue his career here or elsewhere.

I don’t wish to “knock” any of our players, but the above are pragmatic views of where they are at going forward.

It’s worth keeping in mind that you have no idea what kind of forward mentor he’s been unless you know the players. It’s equally possible that his advice and mentorship is what helped Harry and Charlie develop.

Or not. I’m also guessing.

His injury history has meant he hasn’t always performed on field, but let’s not take potshots at other elements of his character.

 

[Coona Blues]

McGovern's contract or any other players contract. It hasn't cost us any significant potential recruits, existing players or created salary cap or list management issues. I don't see what the problem people have with McGovern's contract it's cost us nothing. If anything it probably helped us meet out TPP at the time a keep our future stars salaries in check.

I have more faith in our rucks than most, but I could have gotten behind circa pick 27 for Brodie Grundy with the ‘pies paying a massive part of his contract, or maybe get in the mix for the Jack Bowes and #7 trade gift to the Cats.

Overpaying absolutely costs us something. We gifted Will Setterfield to * due to cap issues. While he would almost certainly remain fringe for us, you can bookmark that he will be a great acquisition for the Bombers.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I have more faith in our rucks than most, but I could have gotten behind circa pick 27 for Brodie Grundy with the ‘pies paying a massive part of his contract, or maybe get in the mix for the Jack Bowes and #7 trade gift to the Cats.

Overpaying absolutely costs us something. We gifted Will Setterfield to * due to cap issues. While he would almost certainly remain fringe for us, you can bookmark that he will be a great acquisition for the Bombers.

Collingwood never would have traded Grundy to us for mates rates like they did the Dees though.

 

[Jeremias]

New year, new list. New list, new thread.

Tables to come soon.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

IMO Baggers are tracking well and if I could wish for anything it would be some real speed through the guts.

 

[gbatman]

Absolutely crazy logic.

We have never received “bang for buck” from McGovern. He was recruited on big bucks based on cameos (and probably Teague recommendation). With the McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (and later TDK) group in development, along with Levi to support, he was never the “need” he was promoted as. We overpaid significantly, and from reports was in a pretty “flat” contract, without the significant front ending of others.

I happily concede that a fit McGovern makes us a better side coming out of defence. Unfortunately, not in the role he was recruited for. Hardly the forward “mentor” we needed. Your slant on things seems very skewed.

His situation beyond 2023 will be fascinating. Even if he has a stellar season, for mine, will still owe the club significantly. Unlike others, his injuries are as much his own doing as “bad luck”. Failure to prepare, and all that rhetoric. Surely his contract will be significantly reduced, and simply, more of the same will result in no contract offer at all.

One of those players who is an asset when fit, but is a bit of a luxury priced bonus, particularly if Marchbank can get his injury issues sorted and more significantly for mine, Kemp continues to develop as expected. The addition of Cowan suggests that we are looking at generation next in defence already, despite Doc, Saad, Williams and even Newman having multiple seasons in front of them.

I hope I am wrong, but McGovern has been rumoured to be looking at a return to his wife’s home state of SA or even joining his big brother for a season or two “somewhere” (won’t get that indulgence with us). I find it hard to see him remaining on two or three hundred thousand less per season. I don’t see us overpaying to keep him either, when we are signing others on salaries below market value.

By your logic we should have kept the petulant Stocker on a decent contract based on ability over output. BTW will be a tough year for Paddy Dow. His inflated contract (some rumours have it as high as $500k) against his output will mean we are more invested in Carroll and the draftees, even Ed and perhaps a released Kemp could be prioritised (apologies to Philp, Honey and Fog who haven’t had a good run at it either). Doc likely will have midfield time to accommodate our oversupply of half backs. Dow is a decent (or better) ball winner, but will have to find the will and capacity to work off the ball to continue his career here or elsewhere.

I don’t wish to “knock” any of our players, but the above are pragmatic views of where they are at going forward.

You could say we could have gone for Grundy but I doubt we could have competed with Melbourne still, nor would we want to. And hes the same as McGovern anyway, hugely overpriced and injury prone. We just appeared uninterested. I think the club are happy with our rucks as you are. They like Pittonet, they probably see TDK as a rising star, they probably see recruiting someone like Grundy getting in the way of what TDK is becoming and unnecessary spending/trading.

Carlton's salary cap being tight is media driven BS, it's hearsay. The only thing I'm going believe is what came from the club and that was that we had the space for 3 good solid players or 1 star player. Hardly a salary cap issue. I'm going to judge our cap on our behaviour which suggests it's in good shape.

Setterfield was outside our best 22 and we were willing to pay him accordingly. He's best 22 at Essendon and they are willing to pay him accordingly. We also did the right thing by Setterfield by letting him go, which is the club we have become, we have a good reputation which helps us get players. We do the right thing these days.

When we recruited McGovern we had a poor list full of kids. Our issue was meeting the total player payments. The best way to manage it is to recruit players and over pay them. Salary dump. The worst thing to do is spread it over your list or overpay players you already have, that's how teams run into salary cap issues down the track.

The other thing is we are a bottom club. The only way we get good players from other clubs is overpaying.

The system works. You bring in talent overpaid, meet minimum player payments, keep control over the contracts of young up and coming players.

That's what our overpaying was all about and it's worked as intended and in our favour. Evidence is there to see that. Contracts of our big stars have not blown out because of this sort of good management.

Despite recruiting McGovern on a big contract we have still managed to sign all required players and land all targets. We've recruited Betts, Pittonett, Setterfield, Newman, Fogarty, Saad, Martin, Williams, Hewett, Cerra and Acres from other clubs despite McGovern's contract.

For it to be a bad deal or whatever, there needs to be negative ramifications and I'm not seeing any. I'm seeing good list and player contract managing. I'm seeing McGovern as a likely participant in our next premiership. I'm seeing our salary cap continue to upen up and let new recruits in. I'm seeing required players being retained.

None of this logic suggests Stocker should have been retained. Highly doubt Dow is on that sort of money.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Absolutely crazy logic.

We have never received “bang for buck” from McGovern. He was recruited on big bucks based on cameos (and probably Teague recommendation). With the McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (and later TDK) group in development, along with Levi to support, he was never the “need” he was promoted as. We overpaid significantly, and from reports was in a pretty “flat” contract, without the significant front ending of others.

I happily concede that a fit McGovern makes us a better side coming out of defence. Unfortunately, not in the role he was recruited for. Hardly the forward “mentor” we needed. Your slant on things seems very skewed.

His situation beyond 2023 will be fascinating. Even if he has a stellar season, for mine, will still owe the club significantly. Unlike others, his injuries are as much his own doing as “bad luck”. Failure to prepare, and all that rhetoric. Surely his contract will be significantly reduced, and simply, more of the same will result in no contract offer at all.

One of those players who is an asset when fit, but is a bit of a luxury priced bonus, particularly if Marchbank can get his injury issues sorted and more significantly for mine, Kemp continues to develop as expected. The addition of Cowan suggests that we are looking at generation next in defence already, despite Doc, Saad, Williams and even Newman having multiple seasons in front of them.

I hope I am wrong, but McGovern has been rumoured to be looking at a return to his wife’s home state of SA or even joining his big brother for a season or two “somewhere” (won’t get that indulgence with us). I find it hard to see him remaining on two or three hundred thousand less per season. I don’t see us overpaying to keep him either, when we are signing others on salaries below market value.

By your logic we should have kept the petulant Stocker on a decent contract based on ability over output. BTW will be a tough year for Paddy Dow. His inflated contract (some rumours have it as high as $500k) against his output will mean we are more invested in Carroll and the draftees, even Ed and perhaps a released Kemp could be prioritised (apologies to Philp, Honey and Fog who haven’t had a good run at it either). Doc likely will have midfield time to accommodate our oversupply of half backs. Dow is a decent (or better) ball winner, but will have to find the will and capacity to work off the ball to continue his career here or elsewhere.

I don’t wish to “knock” any of our players, but the above are pragmatic views of where they are at going forward.

100% the 3 big money recruits in Jack Martin, McGovern and Zac Williams have been disasters, its only that we were developing and could juggle our salary cap that these didnt hurt us more. All 3 of these were recruited to play different roles than they had previously played..

We were told Zac Williams who was an AA half back flanker could be the answers to our lack of midfield depth and the support that Cripps had been crying out for, turns out he cant play mid and is just a good HBF.. but we also recruited Adam Saad who is also a gun and have Doc.. So are now paying biug $ for a player we dont really need.

Jack Martin, recruited as a player with a huge reputation but was flaky in games and never really put a consistent run of good games together, was going to play through the midfield and be a dangerous forward. Turns out he is just a flaky forward who comes in and out of games and always injured.. Unlike Williams we do need the high half forward type player, but Martins lack of consistency is troubling.

Along with McGovern, recruited to be a 3rd tall.. presumably when BB/DT had no faith in Jack Silvagni.. who for a long time now has played the role we wanted Gov to play but much better.. and now with McKay, Curnow, TDK we have to find a role for a player thats on $750k a year and send him back.. Incredibly poor list management but we have chopped and changed so much over the past decade no singular person can be held account...

Importantly the players we have brought in more recently on big $ Adam Saad, George Hewett, Adam Cerra have filled immediate needs, we got what we expected and not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and hopefully the era of wastage is behind us.

 

[Jeremias]

McGovern's contract or any other players contract. It hasn't cost us any significant potential recruits, existing players or created salary cap or list management issues. I don't see what the problem people have with McGovern's contract it's cost us nothing. If anything it probably helped us meet out TPP at the time a keep our future stars salaries in check.

No sorry. That's not necessarily true at all.

I was fully on board with the McGovern deal, but there's absolutely no way of knowing definitively that it hasn't cost us any significant potential recruits.

Certainly you can say it hasn't led us to losing anyone we desperately want to keep. I think our recent record on that front is very self explanatory.

100% the 3 big money recruits in Jack Martin, McGovern and Zac Williams have been disasters, its only that we were developing and could juggle our salary cap that these didnt hurt us more. All 3 of these were recruited to play different roles than they had previously played..

We were told Zac Williams who was an AA half back flanker could be the answers to our lack of midfield depth and the support that Cripps had been crying out for, turns out he cant play mid and is just a good HBF.. but we also recruited Adam Saad who is also a gun and have Doc.. So are now paying biug $ for a player we dont really need.

Jack Martin, recruited as a player with a huge reputation but was flaky in games and never really put a consistent run of good games together, was going to play through the midfield and be a dangerous forward. Turns out he is just a flaky forward who comes in and out of games and always injured.. Unlike Williams we do need the high half forward type player, but Martins lack of consistency is troubling.

Along with McGovern, recruited to be a 3rd tall.. presumably when BB/DT had no faith in Jack Silvagni.. who for a long time now has played the role we wanted Gov to play but much better.. and now with McKay, Curnow, TDK we have to find a role for a player thats on $750k a year and send him back.. Incredibly poor list management but we have chopped and changed so much over the past decade no singular person can be held account...

Importantly the players we have brought in more recently on big $ Adam Saad, George Hewett, Adam Cerra have filled immediate needs, we got what we expected and not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and hopefully the era of wastage is behind us.

Classic hyperbole. None have been close to disasters.

Williams has shown through his career he can play effectively in each third of the field, yes, including the midfield. "We were told" seems to indicate you saw nothing of him prior to him joining the club, which is fine, but at least acknowledge it if it's the case.

He has shown over the course of his career that not only is he better than "just a good HBF", but that he can play mid and forward too. Whether he is capable of doing it again at Carlton remains to be seen.

Martin is the exact same player here as he was at the Suns. Is it a disaster that he hasn't elevated his game and become something he's not, or were your expectations of him the real issue?

McGovern, show me where he's on 750k please. Show me that the deal wasn't very heavily front-ended as suggested which means he along with Martin are on nowhere near the reported figures for this coming season.

Everything is incredibly poor list management if you take things out of context, or worse, listen to the Herald Sun.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

No sorry. That's not necessarily true at all.

I was fully on board with the McGovern deal, but there's absolutely no way of knowing definitively that it hasn't cost us any significant potential recruits.

Certainly you can say it hasn't led us to losing anyone we desperately want to keep. I think our recent record on that front is very self explanatory.



Classic hyperbole. None have been close to disasters.

Williams has shown through his career he can play effectively in each third of the field, yes, including the midfield. "We were told" seems to indicate you saw nothing of him prior to him joining the club, which is fine, but at least acknowledge it if it's the case.

He has shown over the course of his career that not only is he better than "just a good HBF", but that he can play mid and forward too. Whether he is capable of doing it again at Carlton remains to be seen.

Martin is the exact same player here as he was at the Suns. Is it a disaster that he hasn't elevated his game and become something he's not, or were your expectations of him the real issue?

McGovern, show me where he's on 750k please. Show me that the deal wasn't very heavily front-ended as suggested which means he along with Martin are on nowhere near the reported figures for this coming season.

Everything is incredibly poor list management if you take things out of context, or worse, listen to the Herald Sun.

So you can sit here and say you are happy with the outcome we have got from each of these 3 players since they have joined CFC.

 

[Jeremias]

So you can sit here and say you are happy with the outcome we have got from each of these 3 players since they have joined CFC.

I don't think I said that. There's a huge gap between being happy with their output and their recruitment being a disaster.

 

[Brackets]

Martin is the exact same player here as he was at the Suns. Is it a disaster that he hasn't elevated his game and become something he's not, or were your expectations of him the real issue?

I like Martin but I wouldn't classify these stats as being the exact same player.

 

[ray8182]

No sorry. That's not necessarily true at all.

I was fully on board with the McGovern deal, but there's absolutely no way of knowing definitively that it hasn't cost us any significant potential recruits.

Certainly you can say it hasn't led us to losing anyone we desperately want to keep. I think our recent record on that front is very self explanatory.



Classic hyperbole. None have been close to disasters.

Williams has shown through his career he can play effectively in each third of the field, yes, including the midfield. "We were told" seems to indicate you saw nothing of him prior to him joining the club, which is fine, but at least acknowledge it if it's the case.

He has shown over the course of his career that not only is he better than "just a good HBF", but that he can play mid and forward too. Whether he is capable of doing it again at Carlton remains to be seen.

Martin is the exact same player here as he was at the Suns. Is it a disaster that he hasn't elevated his game and become something he's not, or were your expectations of him the real issue?

McGovern, show me where he's on 750k please. Show me that the deal wasn't very heavily front-ended as suggested which means he along with Martin are on nowhere near the reported figures for this coming season.

Everything is incredibly poor list management if you take things out of context, or worse, listen to the Herald Sun.

How often did Williams play midfield for Gws. Not very often l thought. From memory l didn’t think he demonstrated he could be a regular midfielder. My understanding was Gws didn’t think he had the endurance to be a midfielder.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Jeremias]

I like Martin but I wouldn't classify these stats as being the exact same player.

At the time the discussion was centred around his role, not necessarily his output.

Hence the suggestion he was playing the same role as he always had at the Suns.

How often did Williams play midfield for Gws. Not very often l thought. From memory l didn’t think he demonstrated he could be a regular midfielder. My understanding was Gws didn’t think he had the endurance to be a midfielder.

Not often, nor did he play forward often.

When he did though he did it effectively. He can play in all three zones to good effect. It's simply recency bias (or not having seen him play at the Giants, which is fair) that would make someone suggest otherwise.

 

[thylacine60]

How often did Williams play midfield for Gws. Not very often l thought. From memory l didn’t think he demonstrated he could be a regular midfielder. My understanding was Gws didn’t think he had the endurance to be a midfielder.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

when carlton aren't recruiting players who performed well against them, they're recruiting players for a position they played a blinder in............once.......

 

[HereComesJuddy]

when carlton aren't recruiting players who performed well against them, they're recruiting players for a position they played a blinder in............once.......

But how good was he against the filth that day! Ended their GF dream

 

[thylacine60]

Every Giant rated from the preliminary final

Who was Greater Western Sydney's best player as it advanced to its first Grand Final?

www.afl.com.au

 

[gbatman]

No sorry. That's not necessarily true at all.

I was fully on board with the McGovern deal, but there's absolutely no way of knowing definitively that it hasn't cost us any significant potential recruits.

Certainly you can say it hasn't led us to losing anyone we desperately want to keep. I think our recent record on that front is very self explanatory.



Classic hyperbole. None have been close to disasters.

Williams has shown through his career he can play effectively in each third of the field, yes, including the midfield. "We were told" seems to indicate you saw nothing of him prior to him joining the club, which is fine, but at least acknowledge it if it's the case.

He has shown over the course of his career that not only is he better than "just a good HBF", but that he can play mid and forward too. Whether he is capable of doing it again at Carlton remains to be seen.

Martin is the exact same player here as he was at the Suns. Is it a disaster that he hasn't elevated his game and become something he's not, or were your expectations of him the real issue?

McGovern, show me where he's on 750k please. Show me that the deal wasn't very heavily front-ended as suggested which means he along with Martin are on nowhere near the reported figures for this coming season.

Everything is incredibly poor list management if you take things out of context, or worse, listen to the Herald Sun.

There is no way of knowing whether it has or hasn't cost us anything. The evidence suggests it hasn't, when you look at the players we have recruited since, that is undeniable proof we have had room to move and recruit who we have wanted. The club made a statement that we had plenty of room this season, it was hearsay from posters and media that we didn't, we proved we did with the big signings of many of our young stars and recruitment of Acres.

I actually think there is an air of high level competency when it comes to our salary cap management.

When we signed McGovern we had a list that was young and poor quality. No way could we pay everyone fairly and reach our Total Player Payments. Overpay those young long term players, player salaries have to continue to go up, players always want to see their pay rise if they are playing well, you run into cap problems doing that. Saad, Williams, Hewett, Cerra and Acres signed in the last few years. McKay, Curnow, Kennedy, Cuningham, Fisher, Carroll, Durdin, Durdin, Mirkov, Boyd, Cottrell, Honey, Marchbank, O'Brien and Owies all signed new contracts. Suggests no salary cap issues to me.

We were a crap team no one really wanted to go it, unless the money was exceptional and overs.

It makes sense to go out and find those few good players willing to come to us and get a few of them, despite having to spend big money and duration.

That way you have good players coming in and you manage the salaries of our future stars such as McKay, Curnow, Weitering, Walsh etc and not let that get out of control.

You gut a list, you have a crap/young list, you have to overpay someone, you don't get a choice there's minimum player payments you have to meet. Best to overpay recruits, good mature players you are getting from other clubs than the kids you already have. You do that to get them there and to stop salaries blowing out in the future.

SOS was big on salary dumps, he did this thing a lot in his time as LM, it's why our salary cap is and always has been in very good shape. Overpay players you can afford to lose but never overpay those you can't afford to lose.

The club was open about our ability to take in 3 good players or one superstar this year, that's a pretty good salary cap for a team that IMO has a really strong and deep list now.

There is no way McGovern's deal wasn't heavily front loaded, when he was recruited was when we HAD to spend money. Same goes for other similar recruits such as Martin and Williams. We would have front loaded and spent as much of the cap as we could which would have seen it open up again a year or two later again putting us in a position where we had to find ways to spend it and that is what we have done, big player signings and our continuation of bringing in quality players from other clubs.

McGovern was recruited because he wanted to come, the type of player we need, was a good player in the right age bracket, we had to spend money to meet our MTPP. His contract would not be significant now and probably has not been for a season or two now. The only part of this which has not benefited us is that he has not been on the field as much as we would have liked him to be.

 

[rp84]

I like Martin but I wouldn't classify these stats as being the exact same player.

View attachment 1581109

Dreadful reading.

Not quite 'exactly the same'

 

[Arr0w]

I like Martin but I wouldn't classify these stats as being the exact same player.

View attachment 1581109

If that trend continues, we should get 21 games from him this year

 

[Jeremias]

Dreadful reading.

Not quite 'exactly the same'

Already explained, the comparison was the type of player rather than the output.

 

[katmanblue]

If that trend continues, we should get 21 games from him this year

Depends. Is it a contract year?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Absolutely crazy logic.

We have never received “bang for buck” from McGovern. He was recruited on big bucks based on cameos (and probably Teague recommendation). With the McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (and later TDK) group in development, along with Levi to support, he was never the “need” he was promoted as. We overpaid significantly, and from reports was in a pretty “flat” contract, without the significant front ending of others.

I happily concede that a fit McGovern makes us a better side coming out of defence. Unfortunately, not in the role he was recruited for. Hardly the forward “mentor” we needed. Your slant on things seems very skewed.

His situation beyond 2023 will be fascinating. Even if he has a stellar season, for mine, will still owe the club significantly. Unlike others, his injuries are as much his own doing as “bad luck”. Failure to prepare, and all that rhetoric. Surely his contract will be significantly reduced, and simply, more of the same will result in no contract offer at all.

One of those players who is an asset when fit, but is a bit of a luxury priced bonus, particularly if Marchbank can get his injury issues sorted and more significantly for mine, Kemp continues to develop as expected. The addition of Cowan suggests that we are looking at generation next in defence already, despite Doc, Saad, Williams and even Newman having multiple seasons in front of them.

I hope I am wrong, but McGovern has been rumoured to be looking at a return to his wife’s home state of SA or even joining his big brother for a season or two “somewhere” (won’t get that indulgence with us). I find it hard to see him remaining on two or three hundred thousand less per season. I don’t see us overpaying to keep him either, when we are signing others on salaries below market value.

By your logic we should have kept the petulant Stocker on a decent contract based on ability over output. BTW will be a tough year for Paddy Dow. His inflated contract (some rumours have it as high as $500k) against his output will mean we are more invested in Carroll and the draftees, even Ed and perhaps a released Kemp could be prioritised (apologies to Philp, Honey and Fog who haven’t had a good run at it either). Doc likely will have midfield time to accommodate our oversupply of half backs. Dow is a decent (or better) ball winner, but will have to find the will and capacity to work off the ball to continue his career here or elsewhere.

I don’t wish to “knock” any of our players, but the above are pragmatic views of where they are at going forward.

I don't know if you remember but when Gov joined we were bang in the middle of a bottom-out and nobody would join. Like nobody. It is important context. We needed to overpay a few to get ourselves closer to that "destination club" status.

Gov had better offers from Freo.