List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[teddy-hopkins]

You could say we could have gone for Grundy but I doubt we could have competed with Melbourne still, nor would we want to. And hes the same as McGovern anyway, hugely overpriced and injury prone. We just appeared uninterested. I think the club are happy with our rucks as you are. They like Pittonet, they probably see TDK as a rising star, they probably see recruiting someone like Grundy getting in the way of what TDK is becoming and unnecessary spending/trading.

Carlton's salary cap being tight is media driven BS, it's hearsay. The only thing I'm going believe is what came from the club and that was that we had the space for 3 good solid players or 1 star player. Hardly a salary cap issue. I'm going to judge our cap on our behaviour which suggests it's in good shape.

Setterfield was outside our best 22 and we were willing to pay him accordingly. He's best 22 at Essendon and they are willing to pay him accordingly. We also did the right thing by Setterfield by letting him go, which is the club we have become, we have a good reputation which helps us get players. We do the right thing these days.

When we recruited McGovern we had a poor list full of kids. Our issue was meeting the total player payments. The best way to manage it is to recruit players and over pay them. Salary dump. The worst thing to do is spread it over your list or overpay players you already have, that's how teams run into salary cap issues down the track.

The other thing is we are a bottom club. The only way we get good players from other clubs is overpaying.

The system works. You bring in talent overpaid, meet minimum player payments, keep control over the contracts of young up and coming players.

That's what our overpaying was all about and it's worked as intended and in our favour. Evidence is there to see that. Contracts of our big stars have not blown out because of this sort of good management.

Despite recruiting McGovern on a big contract we have still managed to sign all required players and land all targets. We've recruited Betts, Pittonett, Setterfield, Newman, Fogarty, Saad, Martin, Williams, Hewett, Cerra and Acres from other clubs despite McGovern's contract.

For it to be a bad deal or whatever, there needs to be negative ramifications and I'm not seeing any. I'm seeing good list and player contract managing. I'm seeing McGovern as a likely participant in our next premiership. I'm seeing our salary cap continue to upen up and let new recruits in. I'm seeing required players being retained.

None of this logic suggests Stocker should have been retained. Highly doubt Dow is on that sort of money.

I 100% agree we can't throw money at anyone even slightly injury prone.

Must have been 30%+ of our salary cap out of action on a weekly basis for the past 3 years.

 

[Coona Blues]

I don't know if you remember but when Gov joined we were bang in the middle of a bottom-out and nobody would join. Like nobody. It is important context. We needed to overpay a few to get ourselves closer to that "destination club" status.

Gov had better offers from Freo.

I do remember Ted, and can’t refute the logic. We were struggling to attract quality players at the time. McGovern was never a marquee player and thus never warranted the money. He is, however a better than decent intercepting/rebounding defender if he can stay on the park. I am far more invested in Marchbank and the developing Kemp from a future perspective. If Mitch can attain some maturity and combine a professional focus with a bit of “luck” and contribute to a flag or at least getting us to the pointy end, I will be ecstatic.

The McGovern boys both have an element of entitlement and laziness to them to offset their undoubted ability. I do concede that we all have different metabolisms and it is possible the boys may have to work harder than most to maintain an athletic body. (I was a manic sportsman in my youth and “expansion” started when age and responsibilities reduced my activity, I am now mobility challenged and have a hell of a time with my weight due to an extremely slow metabolism) An elite athlete in his prime should not really be affected by these issues. Big brother was exiled from West Coast early in his career for not meeting “body standards”, and has had his own share of soft tissue complaints. Maintain the rage Mitch.

I really hope he buys in. I have raised points regarding his retention and “value” beyond 2023, and they remain valid. While he may finish the season a required player, he will not be receiving the same level of contract offer regardless of the heights he may reach during the season.

 

[SOS Rules]

I do remember Ted, and can’t refute the logic. We were struggling to attract quality players at the time. McGovern was never a marquee player and thus never warranted the money. He is, however a better than decent intercepting/rebounding defender if he can stay on the park. I am far more invested in Marchbank and the developing Kemp from a future perspective. If Mitch can attain some maturity and combine a professional focus with a bit of “luck” and contribute to a flag or at least getting us to the pointy end, I will be ecstatic.

The McGovern boys both have an element of entitlement and laziness to them to offset their undoubted ability. I do concede that we all have different metabolisms and it is possible the boys may have to work harder than most to maintain an athletic body. (I was a manic sportsman in my youth and “expansion” started when age and responsibilities reduced my activity, I am now mobility challenged and have a hell of a time with my weight due to an extremely slow metabolism) An elite athlete in his prime should not really be affected by these issues. Big brother was exiled from West Coast early in his career for not meeting “body standards”, and has had his own share of soft tissue complaints. Maintain the rage Mitch.

I really hope he buys in. I have raised points regarding his retention and “value” beyond 2023, and they remain valid. While he may finish the season a required player, he will not be receiving the same level of contract offer regardless of the heights he may reach during the season.

Big if I know, but if Jack Martin, Zac Williams and Gov can have largely uninterrupted seasons our team will improve immeasurably. The improvement would be just as much as any natural improvement that comes from our younger brigade. I like what each of these guys brings to the table when fit and firing. Here's hoping they are totally switched on and committed to being as fit as possible and that Andrew Russell has figured out the best way to keep them on the park.

 

[lily of laguna]

Big if I know, but if Jack Martin, Zac Williams and Gov can have largely uninterrupted seasons our team will improve immeasurably. The improvement would be just as much as any natural improvement that comes from our younger brigade. I like what each of these guys brings to the table when fit and firing. Here's hoping they are totally switched on and committed to being as fit as possible and that Andrew Russell has figured out the best way to keep them on the park.

Agree wholeheartedly!

These 3 have real football ability and have great "footy brains" they should be amongst our top dozen players but for lack of fitness/health for what ever reason (not presuming to know their motivations) have yet to put it all together.

If they do look out!

Fun times for blues supporters!!!

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Not sure which thread this really belongs in as it covers a few areas.
Fischer McAsey has stepped away from the Crows to remain in Melbourne, saying he's lost the passion to play at an elite level.
Wonder if we'll sign him up to the VFL team for this year (if it's allowed), with a view to making the squad next year?
Especially considering we were strongly linked to him (by some ITK at least) during the trade period and it just seemed to fizzle away.

 

[BlueTang]

Not sure which thread this really belongs in as it covers a few areas.
Fischer McAsey has stepped away from the Crows to remain in Melbourne, saying he's lost the passion to play at an elite level.
Wonder if we'll sign him up to the VFL team for this year (if it's allowed), with a view to making the squad next year?
Especially considering we were strongly linked to him (by some ITK at least) during the trade period and it just seemed to fizzle away.

Could do. With a loss of passion to play, it might not be a great add for the teams culture. I reckon he might take a year off then end up playing somewhere in Vic. If he gets the drive back he could be a bargain for some team

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Could do. With a loss of passion to play, it might not be a great add for the teams culture. I reckon he might take a year off then end up playing somewhere in Vic. If he gets the drive back he could be a bargain for some team

Fair points, but I'm not sure the 'passion to play' comment is necessarily true. Perhaps he's just lost his passion for the Crows. Seems he wanted a trade (wasn't getting many games) and the Crows either didn't want to facilitate, or weren't happy with whatever offers were given.
I'm just reading between the lines of course, but sounds to me more like he just wants out of Adelaide.

 

[thylacine60]

like the overland.....

 

[1300Love]

Not sure which thread this really belongs in as it covers a few areas.
Fischer McAsey has stepped away from the Crows to remain in Melbourne, saying he's lost the passion to play at an elite level.
Wonder if we'll sign him up to the VFL team for this year (if it's allowed), with a view to making the squad next year?
Especially considering we were strongly linked to him (by some ITK at least) during the trade period and it just seemed to fizzle away.

Dodged one there.

 

[Arr0w]

Thy, dial the number

 

[marcmurphy3]

Apparently his dad is unwell. Considering he couldn't get a trade it makes sense he would want out. As for the suggestions about signing him for our vfl team there is a big difference between being a full-time footballer vs a vfl player. I would be happy to sigh him given our poor kpp depth.

 

[Revenant1965]

Apparently his dad is unwell. Considering he couldn't get a trade it makes sense he would want out. As for the suggestions about signing him for our vfl team there is a big difference between being a full-time footballer vs a vfl player. I would be happy to sigh him given our poor kpp depth.

Question for information, running a hypothetical: let's say we can sign McAsey for VFL side, acknowledging his situation and giving personal support, then at endof year he shows real promise (in terms of ability, aptitude, and attitude), and we want to sign him for AFL - would some trade cost to Crows be necessary, or would he have to to enter a draft, or would he be DFA?

 

[thylacine60]

Thy, dial the number

with or without sirens?

 

[marcmurphy3]

Question for information, running a hypothetical: let's say we can sign McAsey for VFL side, acknowledging his situation and giving personal support, then at endof year he shows real promise (in terms of ability, aptitude, and attitude), and we want to sign him for AFL - would some trade cost to Crows be necessary, or would he have to to enter a draft, or would he be DFA?

Given list lodgement has already occurred I assume they will stick him on the inactive list for the rest of the season. If we wanted him after that it would depend on what the crows do. If they delisted him we could pick him as a dfa. If not we would need to trade but I doubt they play hard ball

 

[TENACIOUS]

Dodged one there.

Austin knows what he’s doing…

 

[JuddgementDay]

Do we still have an open spot on our list? Rookie spot?

I'm quite jealous that we don't have a Quinton Narkle vying for a rookie spot in our list!

Sounds like he knows that he is on his last chance and have reacted positively/ accordingly this off season

 

[Stamos]

Do we still have an open spot on our list? Rookie spot?

No.
Only a Cat B spot.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Just looking at our list and who is out of contract for next year (Carlton Football Club Team List and Contract Status), I'm finding it hard to say goodbye to anyone else apart from the players that I've crossed out below:



2023
1. Jack Silvagni
2. Paddy Dow ?
3. Jesse Motlop ?
8. Lachie Fogarty ?
11. Mitch McGovern
12. Tom De Koning
15. Sam Docherty
17. Brodie Kemp
20. Lachie Plowman
22. Caleb Marchbank
24. Nic Newman
27. Mark Pittonett
28. David Cuningham
33. Lewis Young
34. Sam Philp
35. Ed Curnow (Rookie)
36. Josh Honey
38. Sam Durdin (MSD Rookie)
41. Domanic Akuei (2nd Year Cat B Rookie)

 

[JuddgementDay]

No.
Only a Cat B spot.

Do we have any candidates?

 

[Magruder]

with or without sirens?

with.

Always with.

 

[Bletch]

Do we have any candidates?

Not really. Was some talk about bringing back Ciaran Byrne, but didn't happen. In any case, I don't believe we can use that spot until the next draft period.

 

[CJMB]

Just looking at our list and who is out of contract for next year (Carlton Football Club Team List and Contract Status), I'm finding it hard to say goodbye to anyone else apart from the players that I've crossed out below:



2023
1. Jack Silvagni
2. Paddy Dow ?
3. Jesse Motlop ?
8. Lachie Fogarty ?
11. Mitch McGovern
12. Tom De Koning
15. Sam Docherty
17. Brodie Kemp
20. Lachie Plowman
22. Caleb Marchbank
24. Nic Newman
27. Mark Pittonett
28. David Cuningham
33. Lewis Young
34. Sam Philp
35. Ed Curnow (Rookie)
36. Josh Honey
38. Sam Durdin (MSD Rookie)
41. Domanic Akuei (2nd Year Cat B Rookie)

I can see Sam Durdin staying on as cheap KPP backup provided he stays fit. We’d definitely want to have his replacement (perhaps another too) lined up if we let him go.

 

[Arr0w]

Just looking at our list and who is out of contract for next year (Carlton Football Club Team List and Contract Status), I'm finding it hard to say goodbye to anyone else apart from the players that I've crossed out below:



2023
1. Jack Silvagni
2. Paddy Dow ?
3. Jesse Motlop ?
8. Lachie Fogarty ?
11. Mitch McGovern
12. Tom De Koning
15. Sam Docherty
17. Brodie Kemp
20. Lachie Plowman
22. Caleb Marchbank
24. Nic Newman
27. Mark Pittonett
28. David Cuningham
33. Lewis Young
34. Sam Philp
35. Ed Curnow (Rookie)
36. Josh Honey
38. Sam Durdin (MSD Rookie)
41. Domanic Akuei (2nd Year Cat B Rookie)

I think some tough calls will be made, which will also include injury prone types

Sure to cop some resistance to the following names, but unless they either improve and or stay on the park, they are most likely gone

On output: Dow, Fogarty, Plowman, E Curnow

Injury prone: Cuners, Marchbank or Gov, Philp

Then, possible trades for players that get surpassed

7-9 changes again

 

[bmaurizio]

I think some tough calls will be made, which will also include injury prone types

Sure to cop some resistance to the following names, but unless they either improve and or stay on the park, they are most likely gone

On output: Dow, Fogarty, Plowman, E Curnow

Injury prone: Cuners, Marchbank or Gov, Philp

Then, possible trades for players that get surpassed

7-9 changes again

Agree with you, 7-9 changes and after 2 seasons represents a gradually but thorough list clean out which we needed.
Vossy and senior advisors could not make too many tough calls, after one season, would not have been well received and insensitive.
Overall with some luck should finish the year 5-8 position, so we'll be playing finals at last.
17th getting a closer reality 2024.

 

[Coona Blues]

I think some tough calls will be made, which will also include injury prone types

Sure to cop some resistance to the following names, but unless they either improve and or stay on the park, they are most likely gone

On output: Dow, Fogarty, Plowman, E Curnow

Injury prone: Cuners, Marchbank or Gov, Philp

Then, possible trades for players that get surpassed

7-9 changes again

Have been debating if I should offer lists for discussion or if it was a little disrespectful.

Absolutely concur with the first four. A bit rough on a couple, but the list now becomes about regeneration and sensible management. Plow has been a great servant in hard times. To me his only salvation is if both Gov and Marchy have another injury plagued season, and then we have Kemp and possibly Akuei to fill the role.

Cuners has had another injury pre season so signs are not good for his last chance. Even fit, he is not a lock anymore with our recent acquisitions. Love Marchy, but needs to be available for the majority of the season. Philp needs a massive season with injury issues and not establishing himself in the top team. Honey is also in that category, but I expect one of them to survive. Gov is a double edged sword, multi edged even. Injury, price tag and regular rumours of his wife wanting to go home. Even a quality season may not be enough to continue his tenure if he is not amenable to a pay drop.

While the TDK debate continues to play out, we cannot bank on keeping him. I like to think he wants to stay, but the Cats have some excellent carrots to dangle with their surf coast real estate connections.

I cannot see S.Durdin under pressure with just a rookie spot. Kempy not contracted beyond the year, but if his trajectory continues, he is as safe as houses, unless he chooses to leave for opportunity.

While I agree 7-9 will be under consideration, It would take an abominable season by all to be parted with. A detailed look at the contracted players on the list find very, very few in danger of delisting in the foreseeable future. We will retain a couple of the “at risk” players, if for no other purpose than to have someone left to delist the following season. Only a bit of creative accounting moving a couple of players to the rookie list and promoting rookies who will be “in the gun” in two seasons will alleviate this if we cut deeply at the end of 2023.