- Dec 22, 2006
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Those draft watchers, be interested to know of the players on our list how many were drafted with concerns around their kicking?
List Mgmt. 2023 List Management
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Genuine question, was Silvagni responsible for bringing all three of those across ?
- Dec 22, 2006
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Dow has no trade currency.
Fisher would be a late 2nd at best
Kennedy early 3rd
Martin 4th round
TDK, pick 10-20 with change
Williams - 3rd round
IMO these are the likely picks we could hope to secure for these players.... Every other club watches our games too, and the things we dont like about these players they are also well aware of and are not overpaying for our scraps.. Which of these players, all except Dow when fit are best 22 do you want to trade that we can replace with something better with these picks?
- Sep 26, 2004
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No. Williams was an Austin recruit.
Basically at the moment it seems if we keep TDK we have to overpay his "worth" and he'll be hanging on till free agency then hike himself up, we keep Pitto he's a reasonable ruckman but can he sustain a full season is a wait and see. Like Pitto find a back up ruckman... recruit a Goldy for a 2 year contract as support (should've done that last year when he was a chance to be snapped up) and to play 12-15+ games... or find another young ruckman at 22-24 not getting much of a go in AFL/VFL wherever.
Overall my post was a view of what we can to free our list of players whom are worth some currency, we have seen enough of in our team and worth delisting or could refresh themselves elsewhere, or we might trade now to get some currency in order to give them a chance to be a starting 22 player in another team before we lose them for nothing anyway.
If we can bring in 6 fresh top 40 kids at this years draft and another 3-5 next season, top up with some mature seasoned players or speculative kids that fill a need the hope if that in 5 years when Tassie arrives hopefully 5-6 of those kids come good are about 22-24 years old with 50+ games under their belt then we have Walsh, Cerra, Harry, Charlie, Weitering, Motlops, etc potentially still around.
Voss and Co. come end of season will have had 2 full seasons and a reasonably "known" history of the list prior to Voss. If we continue to play out the season as we are at present then the data suggests it's time to be bold at trade, recruitment and list management, stop hoping they'll come good or miraculously be free from constant injuries as how many coaches and fitness staff have tried and failed.
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- Aug 16, 2015
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Not really a good comparison considering the knock on Hewett isn’t due to him not finding the ball, it’s that he’s having little to no impact and hes getting pointless possessions.
Hewett averaging 160 meters gained to Setterfields 370.
Hewett a few games ago had 26 possessions for 60M gained, it’s not good.
- Aug 16, 2015
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Can we please raise the intelligence level here just a tad.
In regards to Williams and Hewett.
They are both free agents, their contracts are included in our salary cap until they expire, even if we trade them.
Someone suggest delist Williams, sure delist a guy on $800,000 with 3 years left on his contract.
be better.
In regards to Williams and Hewett.
They are both free agents, their contracts are included in our salary cap until they expire, even if we trade them.
Someone suggest delist Williams, sure delist a guy on $800,000 with 3 years left on his contract.
be better.
The difference in their contracts our included in our salary cap... we don't know if we've also forward paid either... so if they get traded we only pay the differential on our cap.
Not true. If we trade them their original salary would not get included in our cap. That would make 0 sense.
If we trade them they would need to agree on a salary with the new club. Only if the new club is unwilling to match their current wages and the player is unwilling to take a pay cut would we be forced to make up the difference and that would be included in our cap (just like any contracted player trade).
The only thing we can't do is get them to agree to a pay cut on their existing deal while staying with us. We could give them extra years at a low wage to smooth out the total amount paid to them but their would be risks in that given they will be into 30s when their current contracts expire.
I still cant see us trading them personally. Hewetts contract is good value and not a problem. Williams would be hard to find takers for without us chipping in a fair bit of his contract.
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- Dec 22, 2006
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Pitto & a Pitto clone does not make us a better side next year.. IMO we need to put it all on the line to sign Sean Darcy, offload TDK which frees up $500k and then find another $300 to get Darcy.. During the Hawks & Brisbane glory years players were prepared to sacrifice $ to bring in players they felt would win them a flag.. Crippa & Walsh might sacrifice $100k each if they can be guaranteed silver service at every stoppage, or Crippa can lead and galvanise those on big $ to take a little haircut each to bring in an asset like Darcy which gives them a chance at glory.
Darcy is contracted until 2024 so will need to find some picks, I would do whatever we get for TDK + a future 1st, then offer Darcy a 6 year deal.
- Dec 22, 2006
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If the talk of front loaded contracts is real, Williams would be on $300k for the next 2 years. Who are we getting that makes us better for less than this, better to hold and hope his body comes good.
If we were to offer Darcy big money I think we just wait a year until he is a free agent. You would think Pitto wouldn't want to resign with us either if we brought Darcy in this year.
This post is spot on .. every time I come in here delist so and so when they have a contract or trade fisher and Dow for second round pick .. 1 fisher is not getting a second rounder and Dow if he gets to another club it will be in the stocker mould
- Dec 22, 2006
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Why wait?? So we just write off 2024 to save on a draft pick.. A pick that in all likelihood will net us the next Lachie O Brien or Kristian Jacksch.. I would happily hand them over to secure a sure bet #1 ruck that we can lock away for the next 6 years whilst we are in our 'window' If we waste 2024, we may as well trade Cripps & Saad because they are unlikely to see a premiership in navy blue. We have not had a ruck that we could rely on since Kreuzer was able to play consistently in 2017 and its about time we addressed this.
I think Walsh is getting better, Cripps and Hewett struggling for form and I am guessing some injury cloud. Also mckay and Weiters out of form on top of that.
Well at the time, we weren’t convinced Kennedy would kick on further and setters had been used wrong, also Hewett wasn’t specifically on ball for swans.
I’m a fan of George, I think he is struggling a bit at the moment and still think he was a shrewd acquisition. I don’t think we are playing him simply because we recruited him, he has a fair few credits in the bank. Though he’d want to lift his effectiveness sooner rather than later.
Recruits Revisited
A lot of players look better when in form (obviously) or when we're doing well. A whole heap of St Kilda's list looked like crap last year, but have that new Ross gloss this year. With this in mind, some of the blokes we've traded in are getting unfairly maligned. Even more unfairly, I think SOS and Austin are being viewed a bit irrationally.
Let's look at the trade at the time vs where they are now.
1) McGovern - SOS/Teague special. IMO at the time a lot of us questioned the wisdom of this trade, both from a draft capital perspective and salary. McGovern had always been injury prone at the Crows and while he had been a highlight machine, he had never produced consistently and was far from an 'elite' 3rd tall. That we paid the equivalent draft capital of pick ~13 for him + a long term contract of $750k+ per year was clearly overs. The mitigating factor here was that we needed mature bodies to help out our very young list and young forwardline. We also were desperate to be seen as a 'destination club' again.
Now - he's never gotten his body right, but touch wood so far he seems to be having his best year with us as a 3rd tall defender.
2) Martin - SOS. Martin's recruit was widely celebrated as a coup. We paid ZERO draft picks for him and yes, perhaps paid an inflated contract price but he had undeniable talent and potential at the time...and it was widely hoped that he would achieve consistency at a large and professional club.
Now - disappointing. We had high hopes that he would be the missing piece to our forward line. Instead, while he's shown moments of brilliance, he's never had a consistent run of games, let alone a consistent run of GOOD games. I still think that at age 28, he could still turn it around. But I'd have this at less than 50% likelihood now. Still, I see this as costing far less than McGovern. Hes disappointed us, but the actual recruitment was fine.
3) Williams - Austin. Seen as an inflated salary, but again at ZERO draft picks that was somewhat mitigated. The fact that he has never gotten his body right with us is again disappointing. I have him as less of a fail than McGovern, but worse than Martin.
Now - at the end of the day he's a luxury to have in the backline, and not good enough as a full time mid. If fit, he's best 22.
4) Hewett - Austin. Seen as an incredibly good pickup at ~$450k/year. Was seen as the recruit of the year for Season 2022. Had a fantastic year for us.
Now - let's not sugarcoat it, he's been bad in 2023. He hurt his hand and hasn't been the same. Not sure if this is mental or if he needs rest, but him playin is actively hurting the team. At his best, he's probably in our best 15 players. At present, I'd have him behind 5 others in the midfield...yet he seems safe as houses. Still, at the end of the day he's not on a high salary and his 2022 alone is better than anything than what recruits 1-3 have ever produced. He's still a big tick.
5) Cerra - We paid a lot for him, but he was worth a lot on the open market. Probably even more. With high potential and strengths which are genuinely scarce in our team - he again, was a coup.
Now - Cez is probably leading our best and fairest in 2023. He's silky and smart. He's only getting better. Can't fault him at all this year (off field interview about finals notwithstanding lol). Big tick.
A lot of players look better when in form (obviously) or when we're doing well. A whole heap of St Kilda's list looked like crap last year, but have that new Ross gloss this year. With this in mind, some of the blokes we've traded in are getting unfairly maligned. Even more unfairly, I think SOS and Austin are being viewed a bit irrationally.
Let's look at the trade at the time vs where they are now.
1) McGovern - SOS/Teague special. IMO at the time a lot of us questioned the wisdom of this trade, both from a draft capital perspective and salary. McGovern had always been injury prone at the Crows and while he had been a highlight machine, he had never produced consistently and was far from an 'elite' 3rd tall. That we paid the equivalent draft capital of pick ~13 for him + a long term contract of $750k+ per year was clearly overs. The mitigating factor here was that we needed mature bodies to help out our very young list and young forwardline. We also were desperate to be seen as a 'destination club' again.
Now - he's never gotten his body right, but touch wood so far he seems to be having his best year with us as a 3rd tall defender.
2) Martin - SOS. Martin's recruit was widely celebrated as a coup. We paid ZERO draft picks for him and yes, perhaps paid an inflated contract price but he had undeniable talent and potential at the time...and it was widely hoped that he would achieve consistency at a large and professional club.
Now - disappointing. We had high hopes that he would be the missing piece to our forward line. Instead, while he's shown moments of brilliance, he's never had a consistent run of games, let alone a consistent run of GOOD games. I still think that at age 28, he could still turn it around. But I'd have this at less than 50% likelihood now. Still, I see this as costing far less than McGovern. Hes disappointed us, but the actual recruitment was fine.
3) Williams - Austin. Seen as an inflated salary, but again at ZERO draft picks that was somewhat mitigated. The fact that he has never gotten his body right with us is again disappointing. I have him as less of a fail than McGovern, but worse than Martin.
Now - at the end of the day he's a luxury to have in the backline, and not good enough as a full time mid. If fit, he's best 22.
4) Hewett - Austin. Seen as an incredibly good pickup at ~$450k/year. Was seen as the recruit of the year for Season 2022. Had a fantastic year for us.
Now - let's not sugarcoat it, he's been bad in 2023. He hurt his hand and hasn't been the same. Not sure if this is mental or if he needs rest, but him playin is actively hurting the team. At his best, he's probably in our best 15 players. At present, I'd have him behind 5 others in the midfield...yet he seems safe as houses. Still, at the end of the day he's not on a high salary and his 2022 alone is better than anything than what recruits 1-3 have ever produced. He's still a big tick.
5) Cerra - We paid a lot for him, but he was worth a lot on the open market. Probably even more. With high potential and strengths which are genuinely scarce in our team - he again, was a coup.
Now - Cez is probably leading our best and fairest in 2023. He's silky and smart. He's only getting better. Can't fault him at all this year (off field interview about finals notwithstanding lol). Big tick.
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Paddy Dow - it was his biggest weakness
Paddy Dow Draft Profile
DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Paddy Dow is one of the best players in the 2017 draft crop with his trademark burst speed and vision out of a stoppage among his top traits"
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- Nov 27, 2016
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17 is closer to the number we need to move on than 10. and back Austin in
- Mar 20, 2017
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That's more than illogical, it's just silly. We would paying out numerous contracts and have no salary cap space. We have limited draft collateral and if we even picked up a few picks from this "clear out" we would bevysing draft picks in the 90's and hundreds to replace them.
Can we open a "nonsensical list management" thread for these suggestions or even better wait till the season plays out before we make bold prognostications?
- Dec 22, 2006
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That is very sad reading if you consider what he has become..Paddy Dow - it was his biggest weakness
Paddy Dow Draft Profile
DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Paddy Dow is one of the best players in the 2017 draft crop with his trademark burst speed and vision out of a stoppage among his top traits"
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