List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[gadj1976]

I would say mostly drafting as these players haven’t then moved to other clubs and been successful.

That sort of enhances my point. If they were developed during their developmental years (entering the AFL system), then they could make their mark.

Those players would've been on nearly every team's radar, so its not that they can't play. They can! So what's going wrong?

 

[gbatman]

Model for next year needs to be around more leg speed, higher pressure, run from behind, better structure set-up forward of the ball, feeding back and nubers running through stoppages.

Trade 2 of Kennedy, Cripps, Hewett. Can only carry 1, 2 at the most.

Trade two of McGovern, Marchbank, Plowman. Future being Kemp and Cowan.

Trade O'Brien. Trade Fisher.

Trade DeKoning if his price is too high. Just a ruckman, at this stage.

Build a midfield around Cerra, Walsh, Dow, Cuningham and Durdin. Speed, agility and tackling pressure. Recruit to add to that. Have forward rotations.

Play Cripps forward a lot more, burst centreman.

Acres and Binns as our wingmen. Hollands half back replicating Nick Daicos' game.

Go hard at small forwards in trades and draft. A semi mature ruck. Another KPP.

 

[DangerousD]

If TDK were to leave at seasons end, why would we not use Harry as the second ruck? It gives the side a lot more flexibility at the selection table and would hopefully fix some of the issues with the forward getting in each others way constantly.

TDK leaving and us picking up another ruck to play alongside Harry and Charlie, doesn’t solve some of the problems that we gave when they all play together.

Playing ruck could be the circuit breaker a Harry needs to get rid of some of his demons, if that happens, we can always diminish his ruck. Inutes as his confidence returns.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If TDK were to leave at seasons end, why would we not use Harry as the second ruck? It gives the side a lot more flexibility at the selection table and would hopefully fix some of the issues with the forward getting in each others way constantly.

TDK leaving and us picking up another ruck to play alongside Harry and Charlie, doesn’t solve some of the problems that we gave when they all play together.

Playing ruck could be the circuit breaker a Harry needs to get rid of some of his demons, if that happens, we can always diminish his ruck. Inutes as his confidence returns.

This. For me If Harry isn’t a ruck forward then we should move on JSOS because we are going to have to recruit a ruck/forward in and the problem as you say is Harry and a ruck/forward in the same forward line will be bloody hard to make work especially if it’s a cheap pick up as most seem to want.
Harry chopping out in the ruck makes the side so much more flexible.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Interested to see which backup ruckman people think we should be targeting if TDK leaves and what they would cost?

I don't watch other teams much, some here want to throw an open cheque to lure Sean Darcy over.
He's big, can lift heavy fings, but how slow and immobile does he look plodding along to each contest?

 

[bluesDeluxe]

How we interpret those wins will depend on our current views of the list or views at the time, the facts are we won 9 out of the first 13 games and agreed we nearly could have lost a few more, we also lost quite a few close games.

I agree with most that the list needs a freshen up with youth, just not sure if the club thinks trading big names on big $$$$ is the right way to go.

I was and always will be critical of Silvagni time as list boss, but one thing I thought he did very well was, moving on players who had high currency who he thought wouldn’t be around when we were contending. The players that fit that description now are.

Doc (30 this year)
Saad (29 this year)
Williams (29 this year)
Cripps (28 this year)
Hewett (28 this year)

I don’t see the club wanting to or willing to trade any of these guys and players like Dow, Fisher, Gov, Kennedy would only get you 2nds, 3rd or 4th round picks, hardly enough to inject top end quality to the list.

Our biggest dilemma in my opinion is that I think (based on the media, Cooks comments, last years trade period) we have no cap space.

Should do what hawks did trading out, but we would come off a higher base.

Martin, Mcgovern, TDK, fisher fir a start, even if it is fir 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders. Gives greater list flexibility, and to get FA's.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Sounds good in theory except almost all teams are now playing with 2 tall key forwards. If we trade Harry, and Lose TDK then Charlie becomes far too easy to defend. We simply just need to use Charlie & Harry better.

Fair point, most teams don’t have a 6ft 5” midfielder to rotate forward.
I agree we need to use H & Charlie better, they should be near on invincible, this season has shown otherwise.

 

[HarryFlashman]

If TDK were to leave at seasons end, why would we not use Harry as the second ruck? It gives the side a lot more flexibility at the selection table and would hopefully fix some of the issues with the forward getting in each others way constantly.

TDK leaving and us picking up another ruck to play alongside Harry and Charlie, doesn’t solve some of the problems that we gave when they all play together.

Playing ruck could be the circuit breaker a Harry needs to get rid of some of his demons, if that happens, we can always diminish his ruck. Inutes as his confidence returns.

Not paying him $1m for 7yrs to get smashed in the ruck & watch his value get destroyed along with our cap.

 

[reubsblues]

Goldy is about to turn 35, would have been a great get 3 years ago but not an option now.

Why does age matter if would be good gap fill till okeefe comes on

 

[sweethoney]

This. For me If Harry isn’t a ruck forward then we should move on JSOS because we are going to have to recruit a ruck/forward in and the problem as you say is Harry and a ruck/forward in the same forward line will be bloody hard to make work especially if it’s a cheap pick up as most seem to want.
Harry chopping out in the ruck makes the side so much more flexible.

I couldn’t agree more. Harry needs to become a ruck/foward

 

[gadj1976]

I couldn’t agree more. Harry needs to become a ruck/foward

I think he should ruck up forward but not take centre bounces. That way TDK can float behind the ball - playing a kick behind should be his go IMO.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

What’s horrific about the suggestion? Leadership aside, Jacks output is still high, regardless of his age. Looking back on how he used to play, compared to his game since they started being successful, he is a great example of a on field leader.

Riewoldt is averaging 1.9 goals and 9 possessions a game, is irrelevant for large parts in most games and his output has been on a steep decline over past 2 seasons.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I agree that we still should be aiming for success in 2-3, but as you mentioned, the Pies moved Treloar, Grundy and Stephenson, who are our Treloar, Grundy, Stephenson?

We have plenty of players with currency on the list, its just who the coaching team thinks is expendable or will allow us to move forward in other areas.

Getherald mentioned the other day about Port refreshing their list a few years ago which allowed them to draft Rozee, Butters and Duursma which was true, I reminded him that to do that, Port traded a 25 year old, two time AA, Best and fairest winner who averaged 1.7 goals per game.

Who are we willing to move on who is even close to that?

Stephenson was traded with Atu Bosa +39 for picks 26, 33 & 70.. So i would say this is the equivalent of us trading Fisher, Dow and a late 2nd for 2 x 2nd round picks to West Coast, that isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
Grundy went for pick 27, TDK gets us at least that.
Treloar went for a future first.. Cant think of another player who i would be prepared to lose that would bring us a future first or anything close to what Port got, Walsh is probably the only one and no chance I am giving up on Sammy..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Model for next year needs to be around more leg speed, higher pressure, run from behind, better structure set-up forward of the ball, feeding back and nubers running through stoppages.

Trade 2 of Kennedy, Cripps, Hewett. Can only carry 1, 2 at the most.

Trade two of McGovern, Marchbank, Plowman. Future being Kemp and Cowan.

Trade O'Brien. Trade Fisher.

Trade DeKoning if his price is too high. Just a ruckman, at this stage.

Build a midfield around Cerra, Walsh, Dow, Cuningham and Durdin. Speed, agility and tackling pressure. Recruit to add to that. Have forward rotations.

Play Cripps forward a lot more, burst centreman.

Acres and Binns as our wingmen. Hollands half back replicating Nick Daicos' game.

Go hard at small forwards in trades and draft. A semi mature ruck. Another KPP.

Kenedy 2nd rounder, Cripps 2nd rounder and we would still be paying $500k of his salary, Hewett 2nd rounder.
McGovern 3rd rounder, Marchbank & Plowman nothing
Obrien late 3rd, Fisher late 2nd
TDK - second rounder

So we are trading 8 players and will receive a bunch of 2nd rounders and some scrap 3rd round picks.. We then still have Curnow, Akuei, Fogarty, Philp, Dow who will be gone and then JSOS & Honey who are 50/50.. That would be 13 players you want to turnover, we are not West Coast sh11t we just need to play and be coached better.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Why does age matter if would be good gap fill till okeefe comes on

Because what if Okeefe doesnt come on.. We can not risk moving forward with Pittonet who is a D grade ruckman and then hope one of our kids works.

 

[DangerousD]

Not paying him $1m for 7yrs to get smashed in the ruck & watch his value get destroyed along with our cap.

Which sides currently play with 2 rucks and two key forwards?

 

[Aphrodite]

On a serious note reckon Saad is a massive chance of requesting to leave come end of year

Not sure I care one bit about my ego or my likes if ur referring to me. I like hypothesizing list changes to gauge others opinions on trades and list management. It's like playing a game of sudoku or a puzzle, it's therapeutic for me.

Clearly stated in re to Saad that I don't have inside information on any of this, simply that I'd seen it sprouted around other websites and threads. Never once have claimed to be an ITK poster like Forty3 or the likes as I don't work nor do I know anyone directly involved at the club.

Literally never did... Read above.
Said I reckon he's a chance to but that I didnt have any ITK information to confirm that. Was based on information from other posters in other threads and friends who have a reputation of being mostly accurate, combined with his history of moving teams.

 

[DangerousD]

Riewoldt is averaging 1.9 goals and 9 possessions a game, is irrelevant for large parts in most games and his output has been on a steep decline over past 2 seasons.

A player averaging 1.9 goals a game is on a steep decline? 40 goals in 2022 and 50 goals in 2021, where’s the steep decline?

If he was recruited as 3rd tall forward or recruited so McKay could play as a forward ruck, 1.9 goals a game is not just good, it’s massive

 

[HarryFlashman]

Which sides currently play with 2 rucks and two key forwards?

Fair point, maybe we should have given that a little more thought before giving a 4yr contract to a slow ruck & our other ruckman being questionable if he’s even with us next year.
Same point applies thou- we are paying H $1.1m for 7 to kick us goals - not get smashed up in the ruck.
You put a Ferrari thru the car wash it’s gunna cop some damage.
It’s actually another point to look at for trading him on.

 

[DangerousD]

Stephenson was traded with Atu Bosa +39 for picks 26, 33 & 70.. So i would say this is the equivalent of us trading Buckley, Dow and a late 2nd for 2 x 2nd round picks to West Coast, that isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
Grundy went for pick 27, TDK gets us at least that.
Treloar went for a future first.. Cant think of another player who i would be prepared to lose that would bring us a future first or anything close to what Port got, Walsh is probably the only one and no chance I am giving up on Sammy..

Who are you referring to when you say Buckley?

The picks we would get wouldn’t be too far off what you’re suggesting, the big difference the $$$$ relief wouldn’t come close to what Collingwood got. The reason those players went cheap was the size of the contracts that went with them, Stephenson was rumoured to be on $500,000, Grundys deal was reported around $1M and Treloars I’d say would have been around $750,000 or maybe more.

 

[Aphrodite]

So no response but a LOL emoji WalshistheGOAT


*Edit: So you just changed the emoji to a thumbs down and what are you actually disagreeing with?



I was quoting exactly what you posted!

 

[DangerousD]

Fair point, maybe we should have given that a little more thought before giving a 4yr contract to a slow ruck & our other ruckman being questionable if he’s even with us next year.
Same point applies thou- we are paying H $1.1m for 7 to kick us goals - not get smashed up in the ruck.
You put a Ferrari thru the car wash it’s gunna cop some damage.
It’s actually another point to look at for trading him on.

Trading one of Harry or TDK makes sense to me, but we will still struggle with the second ruck if it’s TDK, no where have I seen Harry Mckays contract mentioned as being $1.1M, I haven’t even seen it reported as being $1M.

Whatever we are paying Harry, it’s to kick goals and play good football, he is currently doing neither, if he stays we have to work out how to get him back to playing good football.

 

[BlueJet]

Harry is a gun full forward that has struggled playing further up the ground & has lost confidence, turning him into a ruck would be just about the last thing I'd recommend.
Get back to basics & play him from the square.
Charlie playing a more roaming role plays to his strengths and will provide him with greater opportunities running back toward goal too.
Comparing our KPF's to Geelong, who have proven two gun forwards can function in tandem, we essentially have Charlie playing the Hawkins role & Harry playing higher like Cameron.
That to me just seems arse backwards.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Trading one of Harry or TDK makes sense to me, but we will still struggle with the second ruck if it’s TDK, no where have I seen Harry Mckays contract mentioned as being $1.1M, I haven’t even seen it reported as being $1M.

Whatever we are paying Harry, it’s to kick goals and play good football, he is currently doing neither, if he stays we have to work out how to get him back to playing good football.

A quick google gave the contract as $1.1m for 7, even at $800k the point is the same.
I appreciate what you’re saying about getting him back up & running, but it’s a massive risk.
7 yr contract extension was not a smart move.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

How we interpret those wins will depend on our current views of the list or views at the time, the facts are we won 9 out of the first 13 games and agreed we nearly could have lost a few more, we also lost quite a few close games.

I agree with most that the list needs a freshen up with youth, just not sure if the club thinks trading big names on big $$$$ is the right way to go.

I was and always will be critical of Silvagni time as list boss, but one thing I thought he did very well was, moving on players who had high currency who he thought wouldn’t be around when we were contending. The players that fit that description now are.

Doc (30 this year)
Saad (29 this year)
Williams (29 this year)
Cripps (28 this year)
Hewett (28 this year)

I don’t see the club wanting to or willing to trade any of these guys and players like Dow, Fisher, Gov, Kennedy would only get you 2nds, 3rd or 4th round picks, hardly enough to inject top end quality to the list.

Our biggest dilemma in my opinion is that I think (based on the media, Cooks comments, last years trade period) we have no cap space.

Every time i see a similar list of names cobbled together like this, the two names that stand out for me to move on this year are Cripps and Docherty.