List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Kreuuuzeurns]

think we'd all agree blacres is already an improved player to the one that left freo - what would happen to the continuum of time & space if elijah hollands trended the same way with us?

Reckon Acres was more of a need at a more reasonable price than Hollands.

I feel he will improve wherever he goes. He is a talent that’s for sure. If we can fill some other pressing needs and fit him in on top of that, I say yes.

 

[Faz 2000]

I like the Hollands pursuit. Has certainly under-performed so far, but given bloodlines, draft profile and potential low price of entry, seems worth a throw to me. Could be reasons he's stinking it up at GC - wouldn't be the first player to not thrive there. Pedigree is there to be the type to get a lot better in a hurry.

 

[Faz 2000]

Why Acres was so cheap with the quintessential Moneyball scenario - his obvious major flaw is his kicking, and SO much emphasis was put on this two clubs failed to adequately value what he does bring and do well. He's not a star, never will be, isn't a best ~10 player on the list. BUT, he is fit, hard, defensively responsible, etc. Brings a lot to the side, so long as we account for and forgive his diabolical disposal. Also means we can't carry too many others who are poor kicks. We still need to add more class to the side, but Acres more than earns his spot even with his shortcomings.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Who, realistically, would we trade next years first to combine with this years and use it in the draft?
A good KPD like O'Sullivan, a sliding X factor forward like Caddy?
I wanted Duursma when we were sitting at 15th, but he'd be well out of our reach now.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Who, realistically, would we trade next years first to combine with this years and use it in the draft?
A good KPD like O'Sullivan, a sliding X factor forward like Caddy?
I wanted Duursma when we were sitting at 15th, but he'd be well out of our reach now.

I would do it for Caddy who I reckon can have an immediate impact in 2024 sitting behind Charlie and Harry. He fills an area of need.

Otherwise I would take best available and hold onto our F1 where it will be more valuable next year.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Lots of reason, mainly because GC don’t want him and they need picks to pay for their upcoming draft hand. When clubs push players out the door, their value diminishes as the player has to accept any trade.

There’s lots of examples of similar trades the last 5 or so years to use as comparisons.

Kennedy to us.
Setterfield to us
Sumner to us
Plowman to us
Pickett to us
Brodie to Freo

Most recently and GC related, sending a former top 10 pick and another top 8 pick to Geelong for nothing.

Id guess that Hollands has signed an extension in his first season and they want it off the books, as well as opening up the list spot.

I could be way off, but I’m sticking by, he will be traded for a pick around 40.

I hope your right if he chooses Carlton.

There's also the recent example of the last time we traded with GCS for an uncontracted Jack Martin, where negotiations went totally pear shaped, and they were prepared to let him walk to the PSD rather than accept what they considered were unders - ie anything less than our pick 9.

Hollands may well be only worth a 2nd round pick if GCS want him off the books. I was merely throwing up a hypothetical how we could get him, keep our current draft hand, and obtain points for the Campo boys next year.

 

[Stamos]

Giants eye tall Crow, Sun on club radars, rivals circle Saints free agent

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

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Aside from the Carlton stuff, this more generally about the trade period and draft is interesting:

CLUBS are expecting plenty of trade stand-offs this year as the value of picks after the top 30 decreases in the eyes of list managers and recruiters. With a shallow draft pool expected – clubs are predicting less than 60 picks are used at the national draft – there is set to be a flow-on for a number of deals that otherwise may be worth second- and third-round selections.

Clubs opting to use three or fewer draft picks may simply not see a value in later draft picks being exchanged for wantaway players, with impasses expected to be common in the trade period due to clubs simply not wanting to use picks past a certain range. It will likely leave clubs pushing to instead trade for future selections, but the reverse effect of the draft class is that clubs keen to trade in players this year will be largely wanting to use 2023 selections to get deals done. – Callum Twomey

 

[The Bighouse]

Aside from the Carlton stuff, this more generally about the trade period and draft is interesting:

Thought that was of particular note, especially if we’re looking at offers for Dow & Fisher (limited value if >25).

Can anyone remember where Monahan & Duffy were slated to likely to play (learn the game)?

We’ll need some midfield depth (Duffy = 1?) / youngsters.
Still need to get some medium forwards too (Monahan = 1?)

Edit: E.Hollands fits the bill for both.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Why Acres was so cheap with the quintessential Moneyball scenario - his obvious major flaw is his kicking, and SO much emphasis was put on this two clubs failed to adequately value what he does bring and do well. He's not a star, never will be, isn't a best ~10 player on the list. BUT, he is fit, hard, defensively responsible, etc. Brings a lot to the side, so long as we account for and forgive his diabolical disposal. Also means we can't carry too many others who are poor kicks. We still need to add more class to the side, but Acres more than earns his spot even with his shortcomings.

We also had a uniquely dire black hole at the wing position.

IMO a wing's key strength areas are:
1-hard running both ways
2-elite disposal
3-accumulation
4-wins one on ones + marking

He ticks 1, 3 and 4.

...
Contrast to LOB who had 1 and showed signs of 2...couldn't find the ball and actually lost the majority of his one on ones

Contrast this to 2022 Cottrell (who has improved this year) who had 1 and 4 only

 

[DangerousD]

Aside from the Carlton stuff, this more generally about the trade period and draft is interesting:

And last year, like every year, they were saying this was going to be a great draft.

 

[FoeverBlues]

Why Acres was so cheap with the quintessential Moneyball scenario - his obvious major flaw is his kicking, and SO much emphasis was put on this two clubs failed to adequately value what he does bring and do well. He's not a star, never will be, isn't a best ~10 player on the list. BUT, he is fit, hard, defensively responsible, etc. Brings a lot to the side, so long as we account for and forgive his diabolical disposal. Also means we can't carry too many others who are poor kicks. We still need to add more class to the side, but Acres more than earns his spot even with his shortcomings.

Currently would be top dozen players for sure
Great endurance, fast, thirst for contests, courages, great marks

 

[Stamos]

And last year, like every year, they were saying this was going to be a great draft.

Yeah. Sounds like they think the top 10 is very strong, but then evens out, and is somewhat shallow.
It's also about how things like SSP, Mid-season draft and delisted free agency/free agency for life have affected how clubs get players onto the list, to the detriment on the number of players taken in the National Draft.

It's not just about the quality of talent, if less players are getting picked, the value of later picks is diminished (especially in a trade sense).

 

[Faz 2000]

We also had a uniquely dire black hole at the wing position.

IMO a wing's key strength areas are:
1-hard running both ways
2-elite disposal
3-accumulation
4-wins one on ones + marking

He ticks 1, 3 and 4.

...
Contrast to LOB who had 1 and showed signs of 2...couldn't find the ball and actually lost the majority of his one on ones

Contrast this to 2022 Cottrell (who has improved this year) who had 1 and 4 only

Very accurate.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Thought that was of particular note, especially if we’re looking at offers for Dow & Fisher (limited value if >25).

Can anyone remember where Monahan & Duffy were slated to likely to play (learn the game)?

We’ll need some midfield depth (Duffy = 1?) / youngsters.
Still need to get some medium forwards too (Monahan = 1?)

Edit: E.Hollands fits the bill for both.

Problem is players won’t want to come to Carlton to be depth players. I don’t see why Hollands would choose us over a number of clubs who would offer him best 22 footy.

We are going to need to get creative with salary and draft assets if we want to maintain and improve our depth. I hope the players we draft are as close to ready made as possible unless they are KPP.

If players like Hollands, and others like Harmes or Khamis are keen to compete for a spot with our 18-30 players then I am all for recruiting them. But they are probably leaving for the same reasons as Dow and Fisher.

 

[DangerousD]

Problem is players won’t want to come to Carlton to be depth players. I don’t see why Hollands would choose us over a number of clubs who would offer him best 22 footy.

We are going to need to get creative with salary and draft assets if we want to maintain and improve our depth. I hope the players we draft are as close to ready made as possible unless they are KPP.

If players like Hollands, and others like Harmes or Khamis are keen to compete for a spot with our 18-30 players then I am all for recruiting them. But they are probably leaving for the same reasons as Dow and Fisher.

Using Harmes and Hollands as an example.

I assume they would be targeted as a HF/Mid, competing with Cuinners, Fog, Fisher, Philp and maybe Martin. If we are targeting these types for this specific role, then they aren’t cooperating against a large amount of players.

We targeted Acres for a specific role, i assume he’d only be competing against a small amount of players for his position.

 

[The Bighouse]

Yeah. Sounds like they think the top 10 is very strong, but then evens out, and is somewhat shallow.
It's also about how things like SSP, Mid-season draft and delisted free agency/free agency for life have affected how clubs get players onto the list, to the detriment on the number of players taken in the National Draft.

It's not just about the quality of talent, if less players are getting picked, the value of later picks is diminished (especially in a trade sense).

Probably keep Philp (if deemed worthy) on the list vs a pick that may not be used.

 

[Stamos]

Probably keep Philp (if deemed worthy) on the list vs a pick that may not be used.

I guess there's a possibility we keep Philp, but would very much depend on how our list numbers look post trade period.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Using Harmes and Hollands as an example.

I assume they would be targeted as a HF/Mid, competing with Cuinners, Fog, Fisher, Philp and maybe Martin. If we are targeting these types for this specific role, then they aren’t cooperating against a large amount of players.

We targeted Acres for a specific role, i assume he’d only be competing against a small amount of players for his position.

When we targeted Acres we were terrible on the wings. There was a clear opening for him in the side. Not sure Harmes is that much better than Martin and Cuners on a flank and he certainly doesn’t make our midfield.

Generally as teams get better, the only way to improve depth is to recruit best 18 players and force the players that you already have down the pecking order. Plus nailing your draft picks particularly later ones so there is constantly pressure coming from underneath the best 22.

If Harmes and Hollands want to come and compete for a spot against our bottom 6/depth that is awesome. But I think they will favour other clubs that can confidently offer them best 22.

I was a fan of picking up Gresham for free as I believe he slots into our best side in a position of relative need straight away. But he is a polarising player around here.

 

[DangerousD]

When we targeted Acres we were terrible on the wings. There was a clear opening for him in the side. Not sure Harmes is that much better than Martin and Cuners on a flank and he certainly doesn’t make our midfield.

Generally as teams get better, the only way to improve depth is to recruit best 18 players and force the players that you already have down the pecking order. Plus nailing your draft picks particularly later ones so there is constantly pressure coming from underneath the best 22.

If Harmes and Hollands want to come and compete for a spot against our bottom 6/depth that is awesome. But I think they will favour other clubs that can confidently offer them best 22.

I was a fan of picking up Gresham for free as I believe he slots into our best side in a position of relative need straight away. But he is a polarising player around here.

Id still like Gresham, just the cost at which id like to pay is not really realistic for someone in his position. If we are targeting half forwards who can pinch hit in the midfield, i see lots of opportunities, assuming Martin and Cunners will miss lots of footy due to injury, add Fog to that.

I see it as hedging our bets, we have players who are good but have had issues with their bodies and its a big risk to assume they wont miss large chunks of footy.

Im a Martin convert this year, putting his durability aside, he is super important, I’m still not convinced on CunIngham and feel his position is open for others to take it next year.

 

[branedotorg]

Trading Harry now are we

i don't want to trade him and goal kicking aside, i think he had a great year playing as a traditional CHF rather than FF... BUT every player has a price, even if it's eyewatering.

i'm nine nines confident it wont happen fwiw

 

[branedotorg]

We also had a uniquely dire black hole at the wing position.

IMO a wing's key strength areas are:
1-hard running both ways
2-elite disposal
3-accumulation
4-wins one on ones + marking

He ticks 1, 3 and 4.

...
Contrast to LOB who had 1 and showed signs of 2...couldn't find the ball and actually lost the majority of his one on ones

Contrast this to 2022 Cottrell (who has improved this year) who had 1 and 4 only

 

[ferrisb]

for an F4/R4 LOB has the tools to play 100+ at AFL level on the wing, if you can give him the confidence to make it happen.

I hope it happens for his sake

Also hopes he makes it, but I don't think he has the tools.

 

[ferrisb]

GETTABLE: Draft bolter fires up, next million-dollar mid, where does Harley go?

Riley Beveridge and Cal Twomey bring you all the latest trade and draft news and are joined by highly-touted Tasmania midfielder Colby McKercher

www.afl.com.au

@ 23:40 in

In talks to extend Cuningham, Fogarty and Marchbank. Will probably deal with that after finals.

JSOS to sign any day now.

 

[BlueTongue]

Who, realistically, would we trade next years first to combine with this years and use it in the draft?
A good KPD like O'Sullivan, a sliding X factor forward like Caddy?
I wanted Duursma when we were sitting at 15th, but he'd be well out of our reach now.

We definitively need another KPD to relieve the pressure on the Bot-man. He can't continue to hold up the KPD positionalone and IMHO Gov needs to be a 3rd tall.

 

[I bleed Blue]

In the game preview thread starts of discussions of Young being out of favour.

Could we ship him off to North with Fish for a mid second round pick? Or their start of third round pick?

Target Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

.

They let McKay go without too much haggling on matching.

Out - Fisher and Young
In - McKay and 3rd rounder

Them-

Out- McKay + 3rd rounder
In - Young Fisher and compo pick(end of first?)

Thoughts?

I think both clubs win. And all 3 players involved win.