Training 2023 Pre-season thread

[M Malice]

Lions social media team have been witty on occasion this off season.. LOL

 

[Tom14]

Answerth is good value against bottom 8 teams. He can also hold his own against the bottom half of the finals teams. Once you get to top 4 who are very well drilled in shutting down options as well as put us under enormous pressure - then he'll get exposed. Answerth puts body on the line, goes when its his turn to go and is one of the most courageous players we have on the list. But to me there appears to be no standout trait that he can lean on, when the pressure goes up against the top teams. Piercing kicks out of defense, rebound with pace etc - I can't pick a skill that'll help him in tricky situations.

He's not best 22 for me but he'll definitely be in the next rung as reliable depth to plug a gap.

If we are going to be flooding back with our wings and half forwards more and looking to very quickly slingshot transition this year to assist our scoring against the better teams, we have to have good kickers and calm heads in D50 to faciltiate that. Rich, Kiddy and Rayner do that (Starce can as well but wouldn't call him a consistent good kick), Noah has not shown that he can do that yet.

 

[M Malice]

If we are going to be flooding back with our wings and half forwards more and looking to very quickly slingshot transition this year to assist our scoring against the better teams, we have to have good kickers and calm heads in D50 to faciltiate that. Rich, Kiddy and Rayner do that (Starce can as well but wouldn't call him a consistent good kick), Noah has not shown that he can do that yet.

To go with them I also think Harris is a good kick and while Jack can fluff the occasional kick he is getting better and more confident as he gets more senior games under his belt, I like Darcy Wilmot's kicking as well.

 

[Quested]

Think you'll like this one better :

The AFL's 50 best players

Not valuable. Not skilled. Not must-watch. But who are the 50 best AFL players heading into season 2023?

www.espn.com

Some nice inclusions and words there, particularly Bailey. Would still have Neale over Cripps any day of the week

 

[Brett C]

Anyone seen mark Robinson's top 50? Reeks of vicbias but I mean it's a Vic reporter catering to the Vic audience.

Charlie Curnow at no. 1?
If y'all are wondering Lachie comes in at 8 after dusty.

Robbo has been a joke for years, he shit the bed when Essendon cheated and failed his first real test as chief footy writer at the herald.

AFL 360 is a waste of time with him waffling and barely able to string a sentence together at times.

His opinion of footballers is worthless to me

 

[martinson]

Some nice inclusions and words there, particularly Bailey. Would still have Neale over Cripps any day of the week

As much as I hate what happened last year Cripps is close to the best going around imo. Hard to compare he and Lachie ,different styles looking for the same end result.

Curnow as No 1 is surely a joke for clickbait. You'd want the best player in the game to be kicking more than 64 goals as a power forward. Hawkins and Cameron kicked around that many each . Charlie kicked nearly 50 didn't he ? If Curnow goes down they still have McKay. He's not irreplaceable whereas I think Cripps just about is.

 

[AFLQLD]

Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

30

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

got engaged.

 

[briztoon]

As much as I hate what happened last year Cripps is close to the best going around imo. Hard to compare he and Lachie ,different styles looking for the same end result.

Curnow as No 1 is surely a joke for clickbait. You'd want the best player in the game to be kicking more than 64 goals as a power forward. Hawkins and Cameron kicked around that many each . Charlie kicked nearly 50 didn't he ? If Curnow goes down they still have McKay. He's not irreplaceable whereas I think Cripps just about is.

Not arguing against your point, just want to say Curnow isn't power forward. McKay is a power forward.

 

[p4p1]

You should read the Richmond board. Having four umps is clearly bias against the tigers hahaha

Hardwick himself has stated they push the boundaries and try to get away with as much niggle and agro as they can... But all their fans are then surprised they give away the most free kicks?

I’ve said for a long time that part of the brilliance of Dimma’s plan is they infringe so much that they get away with it 90% of the time because the AFL expects an evening free kick account and the umps are instructed not to stop the game every 30 seconds for a free kick.

 

[martinson]

Not arguing against your point, just want to say Curnow isn't power forward. McKay is a power forward.

Agree . What I should've said was that if you're the No 1 player in the game you'd think you'd be a power forward who is pretty much unstoppable and kicks more than 64 goals. Lots of players kick a similar no. of goals to Charlie and contribute equally or better in other ways. i.e. Cameron and Hawkins.

It's interesting Carlton came 9th yet Robbo thinks they have 2 of the best 5 players in the game and 5 in the top 50.

The expectation on them this year is delightfully high if they don't fulfil it.

 

[p4p1]

Anyone seen mark Robinson's top 50? Reeks of vicbias but I mean it's a Vic reporter catering to the Vic audience.

Charlie Curnow at no. 1?
If y'all are wondering Lachie comes in at 8 after dusty.

Agree . What I should've said was that if you're the No 1 player in the game you'd think you'd be a power forward who is pretty much unstoppable and kicks more than 64 goals. Lots of players kick a similar no. of goals to Charlie and contribute equally or better in other ways. i.e. Cameron and Hawkins.

It's interesting Carlton came 9th yet Robbo thinks they have 2 of the best 5 players in the game and 5 in the top 50.

The expectation on them this year is delightfully high if they don't fulfil it.

To be fair to Robbo his reasoning on some level made sense. It is a predicted list at the end of 2023, and he had managed 15 games over 3 seasons prior to last year so it is possible he could make another leap forward this year.

Personally I would probably have Cripps #1 atm, on top of his obvious footy ability he seems to be an excellent leader as well. He’s the guy I would pick first in a #1 schoolyard game.

 

[martinson]

I’ve said for a long time that part of the brilliance of Dimma’s plan is they infringe so much that they get away with it 90% of the time because the AFL expects an evening free kick account and the umps are instructed not to stop the game every 30 seconds for a free kick.

It's becoming increasingly apparent (to me) that the way the game is umpired now you're better off infringing/throwing/whatever and taking the odds it won't get picked up. Around the neck/in the back is out the window now compared to a couple of decades ago. Likewise the little nudges etc a la Hawkins rarely get paid.

Dimma is on the right track. Create an us against the world mentality , howl like wild banshees every time they don't get the rub of the green ,infringe at will and the umps will pick you off occasionally but overall they're too scared to go in hard against it and are instructed to keep the game flowing in any case.

 

[p4p1]

It's becoming increasingly apparent (to me) that the way the game is umpired now you're better off infringing/throwing/whatever and taking the odds it won't get picked up. Around the neck/in the back is out the window now compared to a couple of decades ago. Likewise the little nudges etc a la Hawkins rarely get paid.

Dimma is on the right track. Create an us against the world mentality , howl like wild banshees every time they don't get the rub of the green ,infringe at will and the umps will pick you off occasionally but overall they're too scared to go in hard against it and are instructed to keep the game flowing in any case.

If you are sure your opponent is going to mark it then you might as well try to stop him outside of the rules and hope you get away with it. The old ‘make them earn it.’

I think it’s been obvious for a couple of years now. Richmond are the ’dirtiest’ team in the comp but they are IMO brilliantly taking advantage of some flaws in the way the game is officiated. The way Dusty has always gotten away with his high don’t argues is a good example. We probably skirted the rules during our 3-Pete era as well.

I just don’t see the umpires or the AFL allowing a free kick to be awarded as often as sometimes should be.

 

[Section 5]

TAB-Main Markets​

Winner, To Make Grand Final, Minor Premiership, Top 4, Final 8, To Miss Top 8

	Winner	To Make Grand Final	Minor Premiership	Top 4	Final 8	To Miss Top 8
GEELONG	5.50	2.40	3.30	1.50	1.05	9.50
MELBOURNE	6.50	3.40	7.00	2.05	1.17	4.80
BRISBANE	8.00	3.70	7.50	2.05	1.17	4.80
RICHMOND	8.00	3.50	8.00	2.25	1.25	3.80
CARLTON	10.00	3.50	10.00	2.75	1.42	2.85
COLLINGWOOD	10.00	4.80	13.00	3.00	1.55	2.40
SYDNEY	11.00	5.00	11.00	2.90	1.50	2.55
WESTERN BULLDOGS	15.00	7.00	15.00	3.50	1.80	2.00

 

[a mayes ing]

It's becoming increasingly apparent (to me) that the way the game is umpired now you're better off infringing/throwing/whatever and taking the odds it won't get picked up. Around the neck/in the back is out the window now compared to a couple of decades ago. Likewise the little nudges etc a la Hawkins rarely get paid.

Dimma is on the right track. Create an us against the world mentality , howl like wild banshees every time they don't get the rub of the green ,infringe at will and the umps will pick you off occasionally but overall they're too scared to go in hard against it and are instructed to keep the game flowing in any case.

There is a difference. They are a big Vic club with a big following, we are the Lions where there won't be as much chaos if they make repeated calls against us

 

[McIvor]

Surprised at how highly rated Richmond are i personally dont see it. Also wouldnt be suprised Collingwood dont make it and last years results could easily have gone the other way with all those wins by under 2 goals.

 

[Quested]

It's becoming increasingly apparent (to me) that the way the game is umpired now you're better off infringing/throwing/whatever and taking the odds it won't get picked up. Around the neck/in the back is out the window now compared to a couple of decades ago. Likewise the little nudges etc a la Hawkins rarely get paid.

Dimma is on the right track. Create an us against the world mentality , howl like wild banshees every time they don't get the rub of the green ,infringe at will and the umps will pick you off occasionally but overall they're too scared to go in hard against it and are instructed to keep the game flowing in any case.

Like the AFL talking about a vintage Dusty mark, where it's clear push in the back...
Dusty delivers with vintage mark and goal

Dusty delivers with vintage mark and goal

Dustin Martin shows his class with a strong mark before finishing truly

www.afl.com.au

 

[briztoon]

Surprised at how highly rated Richmond are i personally dont see it. Also wouldnt be suprised Collingwood dont make it and last years results could easily have gone the other way with all those wins by under 2 goals.

I see it for this year, provided Riewoldt and Lynch are firing at the end of the year.

They nailed the 2021 draft, and those kids should be making a step up this year, and they’ve had enough hits through the draft since 2016, along with Taranto and Hopper, to keep them in the top 8 going forward.

Their main weakness will be no recognisable key forwards coming through behind Lynch.

I wouldn’t necessarily have them 4th, behind the obvious top 3, but you could make a case for any one of Sydney, Richmond, Carlton, Fremantle or Bulldogs finishing 4th.

Collingwood is the team hardest to predict where they finish.

 

[Mr Ripper]

If you are sure your opponent is going to mark it then you might as well try to stop him outside of the rules and hope you get away with it. The old ‘make them earn it.’

I think it’s been obvious for a couple of years now. Richmond are the ’dirtiest’ team in the comp but they are IMO brilliantly taking advantage of some flaws in the way the game is officiated. The way Dusty has always gotten away with his high don’t argues is a good example. We probably skirted the rules during our 3-Pete era as well.

I just don’t see the umpires or the AFL allowing a free kick to be awarded as often as sometimes should be.

Yeah, one of the “better” tactics the Tigers adopted during their rise a few years ago was pre-emptive tackling; if your bloke looks like getting the footy, just tackle him anyway. Illegal af, but they got away with it so that’s good play, as Lou used to say.

 

[Jivlain]

TAB-Main Markets​

Winner, To Make Grand Final, Minor Premiership, Top 4, Final 8, To Miss Top 8

	Winner	To Make Grand Final	Minor Premiership	Top 4	Final 8	To Miss Top 8
GEELONG	5.50	2.40	3.30	1.50	1.05	9.50
MELBOURNE	6.50	3.40	7.00	2.05	1.17	4.80
BRISBANE	8.00	3.70	7.50	2.05	1.17	4.80
RICHMOND	8.00	3.50	8.00	2.25	1.25	3.80
CARLTON	10.00	3.50	10.00	2.75	1.42	2.85
COLLINGWOOD	10.00	4.80	13.00	3.00	1.55	2.40
SYDNEY	11.00	5.00	11.00	2.90	1.50	2.55
WESTERN BULLDOGS	15.00	7.00	15.00	3.50	1.80	2.00

Geelong's an interesting one. Clearly the best side last year.
That long prophecied decline didn't happen last year, and there's no guarantee it will this year either. They've got a lot of high-class veterans around, and used their off-season to bring in some legit players. They definitely could do it again.

More likely than not they'll be up again, in fact. But those seem, to my mind, surprisingly generous odds on them missing the four/eight.

 

[western royboy]

If you are sure your opponent is going to mark it then you might as well try to stop him outside of the rules and hope you get away with it. The old ‘make them earn it.’

I think it’s been obvious for a couple of years now. Richmond are the ’dirtiest’ team in the comp but they are IMO brilliantly taking advantage of some flaws in the way the game is officiated. The way Dusty has always gotten away with his high don’t argues is a good example. We probably skirted the rules during our 3-Pete era as well.

I just don’t see the umpires or the AFL allowing a free kick to be awarded as often as sometimes should be.

This is why they’ve gone to 4 umpires - to specifically stop the holds off the ball - have to wait and see but I would not be heading down that track

 

[Tom14]

Geelong's an interesting one. Clearly the best side last year.
That long prophecied decline didn't happen last year, and there's no guarantee it will this year either. They've got a lot of high-class veterans around, and used their off-season to bring in some legit players. They definitely could do it again.

More likely than not they'll be up again, in fact. But those seem, to my mind, surprisingly generous odds on them missing the four/eight.

Extremely generous draw for Geelong this year. Kardinia Park redevelopment means they have a stack of home games back-ended to the latter part of the season too.

 

[Dalions]

Extremely generous draw for Geelong this year. Kardinia Park redevelopment means they have a stack of home games back-ended to the latter part of the season too.

Hopefully they have a bad start to the year then.
And they are playing catch up for the second half of the year.
Then their old bodies won’t be able to hold up in September.
I am sure I am dreaming

 

[morsie]

I see it for this year, provided Riewoldt and Lynch are firing at the end of the year.

They nailed the 2021 draft, and those kids should be making a step up this year, and they’ve had enough hits through the draft since 2016, along with Taranto and Hopper, to keep them in the top 8 going forward.

Their main weakness will be no recognisable key forwards coming through behind Lynch.

I wouldn’t necessarily have them 4th, behind the obvious top 3, but you could make a case for any one of Sydney, Richmond, Carlton, Fremantle or Bulldogs finishing 4th.

Collingwood is the team hardest to predict where they finish.

Samson Ryan had a good quarter, took our friend Mr Petty apart.

 

[Sanchez365]

Yeah, one of the “better” tactics the Tigers adopted during their rise a few years ago was pre-emptive tackling; if your bloke looks like getting the footy, just tackle him anyway. Illegal af, but they got away with it so that’s good play, as Lou used to say.

Yeah this kind of stuff clearly happens to Neale all game, then he breathes on a Petracca at a center bounces and it's immediately a free kick.