Training 2023 Pre-season thread

[Thomasno]

Dan McStay was a great club man and a very good footballer for the Lions. He left for a better contract at the Magpies after years of loyal service to the Lions. Why would you be so disrespectful to such a good human being?

To be fair I’ve heard from multiple people independently (that have very little interest in footy) that McStay might be a bit of a ****head…. Unsure what I can say without being banned so I’ll leave it at that. Disclaimer that they are totally unverifiable claims on my part, but just odd that I’ve heard the same thing twice.

Still liked him as a player though

 

[Doc Wieldon]

Dan McStay was a great club man and a very good footballer for the Lions. He left for a better contract at the Magpies after years of loyal service to the Lions. Why would you be so disrespectful to such a good human being?

I guess we have different definitions of 'so disrespectful', and 'a very good footballer'.
I've never met the man, so i can't speak to his character. But being a good bloke doesn't help us win matches, which is what the comment was referring to (a '22 forwardline without Daniher).
I don't begrudge him in the slightest, it has been the best news of our offseason, especially after we landed Gunston which i'm sure the Club knew was in the bag when they chose not to match any offer on the table.
I'll happily stand corrected, but this years forwardline will be infinitely stronger and more multi-dimensional with a (gun) player who can trouble the scoreboard. And second to watching the mighty Lions, I can't wait to see how he fares at Collingwood as their main man...

 

[briztoon]

Lyons much easier to replace than Daniher - we had inside mids waiting in the wings. Our previous years strategy seemed to focus on the forwards bringing the ball to ground, mainly because McSpud was no good, so even an injured JD playing this role was a better bet to make finals than relying on a forward line of McSpud, Hippy and probably Fullerton for half the year

McStay is a significantly better marker of the ball than Hipwood.

The difference is, Hipwood is ~7cm taller with a much longer reach.

Do you have any faith in Hipwood leading up to ball and taking a mark out in front?


The other point, which I’ve been saying for years, is that our game plan has been really poor in regards to our tall forwards creating space for each other, making false leads and opening space behind them.

It’s not unusual to see two, or all three of our talls, flying for the same ball, sometimes with Rayner coming over the back or from the opposite side.

Geelong and Richmond are far better at using their tall forwards to create space for each other, and still allow their smalls to pounce on loose balls.

 

[Doc Wieldon]

McStay is a significantly better marker of the ball than Hipwood.

The difference is, Hipwood is ~7cm taller with a much longer reach.

Do you have any faith in Hipwood leading up to ball and taking a mark out in front?


The other point, which I’ve been saying for years, is that our game plan has been really poor in regards to our tall forwards creating space for each other, making false leads and opening space behind them.

It’s not unusual to see two, or all three of our talls, flying for the same ball, sometimes with Rayner coming over the back or from the opposite side.

Geelong and Richmond are far better at using their tall forwards to create space for each other, and still allow their smalls to pounce on loose balls.

Hard to agree to 'significantly' better. McSpud, sorry McStay, as prone to dropping a sitter as Hipwood. There are far more memorable, and game changing, Hipwood marks than McStay over the recent years.

Yes i have faith in Hipwood - he's a gun. He worked into the season nicely after coming off an ACL. He's playing the hardest position on the ground, hitting up at the ball half way up the ground at pace most of the time, and clunks a good portion of those. His reach certainly helps in pack mark situations, but i don't see how that is a neg on Hipwood and a plus for McStay.

Couldn't agree more with the forwardline disfunction. And McStay was the main culprit - he looked lost most of the time. You could see that he had no confidence in himself taking a pack mark, so his go-to was to bring it to ground, which half the time meant spoiling his team mates.

Anyway, my point, minus the disrespect for a Collingwood player, was that whilst Daniher was no where near his best last year, he still took the number 1 defender which allowed Hipwood to come back from injury, and allowed McStay to get the third or fourth best defender. He doesn't play, McStay gets the number 1 or 2 and would have had even less impact than he had

 

[martinson]

I never got the love for McStay the player but he did a job and played some good games for us. He's won himself a nice contract at the Pies and good luck to him.

I'll be really interested to see how our forward line functions with Gunston in there . I know our small blokes like McCarthy and Charlie are pretty good overhead but they should concentrate solely on crumbing unless they're the only option or they get an overhead sitter. Too often the ball gets swept away too easily particularly against the top teams.

 

[Doc Wieldon]

McStayin semi final:

kicked 2 nice passes that resulted in Hipwood goals.

Got a htb that resulted in a hipwood goal.

Shepherded Ah Chee to allow him the goal just before half time.

Kicked 2 himself in the last quarter.

We would not have won without him…

In the context of the posts, you make a good point. But McStay's best and worst were poles apart, and unfortunately for us he played many more ineffectual games than the Semi Final game. So whilst the game Daniher didn't play we won and he played well, would he have put in that performance as #2 from round 8 until Daniher's return (if he returned), enough for us to win enough games to make finals? Impossible to say, but based on his performances over the years you'd (I) have to say very, very unlikely.

We also wouldn't have won the Elimination Final without Daniher. Yet, dive a little deeper and up until just before 3/4 time he was easily the worst player on the ground. Bang, bang, bang and the rest is history!

 

[Nathan Barley]

I never got the love for McStay the player but he did a job and played some good games for us. He's won himself a nice contract at the Pies and good luck to him.

I'll be really interested to see how our forward line functions with Gunston in there . I know our small blokes like McCarthy and Charlie are pretty good overhead but they should concentrate solely on crumbing unless they're the only option or they get an overhead sitter. Too often the ball gets swept away too easily particularly against the top teams.

I know some people use the term passenger a lot but I don't think anyone who has been consistently best 22 over the past 4 years doesn't deserve a huge amount of respect for how our team transformed from a basket case to the team we have now

 

[Sherrinator]

In all fairness to the decision made, there was a fair bit of winning with Daniher in the team.

You misunderstand. Winning as in pleasing all the whingers. I realise we won plenty of games with him

 

[Dalions]

McStay is a significantly better marker of the ball than Hipwood.

The difference is, Hipwood is ~7cm taller with a much longer reach.

Do you have any faith in Hipwood leading up to ball and taking a mark out in front?


The other point, which I’ve been saying for years, is that our game plan has been really poor in regards to our tall forwards creating space for each other, making false leads and opening space behind them.

It’s not unusual to see two, or all three of our talls, flying for the same ball, sometimes with Rayner coming over the back or from the opposite side.

Geelong and Richmond are far better at using their tall forwards to create space for each other, and still allow their smalls to pounce on loose balls.

Personally I think that a good part of that has been the ball movement further up the field.
We now have 3 talls in the forward line that are more leading type of players rather than big contested mark types.
So we will have to adjust the ball movement to suit the type of players we now have.

 

[martinson]

I know some people use the term passenger a lot but I don't think anyone who has been consistently best 22 over the past 4 years doesn't deserve a huge amount of respect for how our team transformed from a basket case to the team we have now

Definitely. He wasn't a passenger. He was given a job and mostly did it as asked.

 

[Grasshopper17]

McStayin semi final:

kicked 2 nice passes that resulted in Hipwood goals.

Got a htb that resulted in a hipwood goal.

Shepherded Ah Chee to allow him the goal just before half time.

Kicked 2 himself in the last quarter.

We would not have won without him…

And played in the ruck for 95% of the Elimination Final.

 

[twhowler]

In the context of the posts, you make a good point. But McStay's best and worst were poles apart, and unfortunately for us he played many more ineffectual games than the Semi Final game. So whilst the game Daniher didn't play we won and he played well, would he have put in that performance as #2 from round 8 until Daniher's return (if he returned), enough for us to win enough games to make finals? Impossible to say, but based on his performances over the years you'd (I) have to say very, very unlikely.

We also wouldn't have won the Elimination Final without Daniher. Yet, dive a little deeper and up until just before 3/4 time he was easily the worst player on the ground. Bang, bang, bang and the rest is history!

Consistency definitely an issue. He never became a regular enough goalkicker. And could never be number one banana in a forward line.

But his set shots improved form mcspray to i reckon 35m slight angle second best in the side (behind linc). He did a lot of team things to create goals. And he was a good field kick.

I was always an advocate for him being second ruck. Richmond final surely showed he should have been! I think we could have unlocked more of his inner competitive beast and would have meant oscar going forward a bit to clunk marks.

So yeah no superstar but i think a bit undervalued overall.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Who was saying last year we only played people at 100% fitness? Mighty Lions ?

Fagan reveals extent of 'brave' Lion's injury troubles

Joe Daniher is primed to return to his best in 2023 after finally having surgery on his troublesome shoulder

www.afl.com.au

Pick another poster Nathan Barley as i never said that. You might have taken me as saying we played people only when the medico's passed them as fit to play as what you infer. They are distinctly 2 different scenario's.

 

[Mighty Lions]

If someone I barely knew said that about me in public, I’d be asking him to step outside. I suppose your advantage is being anonymous.

Happy to make myself known to Whiting if he wants to step outside to settle something...pretty silly post but!!! We all have opinions of people. Mine on Whiting is based on the person I believe he is and the stuff he writes.
That said, it's an opinion of someone. I never used the word hate. I hate very few people in this world and Whiting isn't one of them. I simply dont rate him as a person or a journalist, that's it. Getting violent about that is really dumb, but, we all deal with things in our own ways don't we.
I also realise my opinion is an unpopular one for many here. Move on if you dont want to read it mate.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

 

[Dalions]

No Jarryd Lyons in the 26 man squad

 

[Dalions]

 

[Cubs2Lions]

No Jarryd Lyons in the 26 man squad

Something tells me that he won’t playing much AFL footy this year, if he is behind Robertson, Mathieson and more recently Ashcroft now, unless we have a massive injury crisis in our midfield this year.

*Don’t think I’ll include Sharp in that conversation though, as he is more a Zorko replacement for tomorrow IMO.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Who's missing that would be on the fringe and is fit; Ah Chee, Lyons....

 

[Nathan Barley]

Pick another poster Nathan Barley as i never said that. You might have taken me as saying we played people only when the medico's passed them as fit to play as what you infer. They are distinctly 2 different scenario's.

My memory was that I was the one making the point last year and your replies to every comment about Lyons was that he's fit and it wasn't an excuse

Lyons might have been passed fit despite being unable to train but it clearly effected his performance. Similarly Zorko in the early rounds

 

[Dalions]

Who's missing that would be on the fringe and is fit; Ah Chee, Lyons....

Only the 2 Key Backs so Rayner will play 3rd tall you would think

 

[Cubs2Lions]

View attachment 1614085
Only the 2 Key Backs so Rayner will play 3rd tall you would think

Unless Gunston plays down back for some of the game (changes position with Rayner on-field), which is highly unlikely but you never know given it’s a practice game ofc.

 

[pulpdriver]

Looks very close to our best 22/1. At a guess if Zorko and Dizzy were available Fort would drop out and possibly Matho. Wilmot, Tunstill, Prior and Sharp probably fighting it out for a wing spot.

 

[trikster]

Looks very close to our best 22/1. At a guess if Zorko and Dizzy were available Fort would drop out and possibly Matho. Wilmot, Tunstill, Prior and Sharp probably fighting it out for a wing spot.

other than does Rayner really play back (looks like he will), who plays how much wing/half back is what I'm watching with most interest

 

[Mighty Lions]

My memory was that I was the one making the point last year and your replies to every comment about Lyons was that he's fit and it wasn't an excuse

Lyons might have been passed fit despite being unable to train but it clearly effected his performance. Similarly Zorko in the early rounds

Naah mate.... He was passed fit to play was what I was saying. After Round 6, JL was not fit for the rest of the season....as was Joey obviously but that didn't stop people sticking it to him....justifiably so some posters would say. (not me)

And.....Just for the record, I have consistently said this pre-season that a fit & firing LJ will be in the best 22 in season 23. Right now he is neither.