Preview 2023 Rd 17 Carlton vs Fremantle Sunday July 9 4:40PM @ Optus Stadium

[Aphrodite]

Team is in ...


IN: Matthew Cottrell
OUT: Ed Curnow, George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

AFL team news: Cottrell in for trip west

The team is in for Round 17.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Garters]

Absolutely no way is JSOS leaving this team.

Jsos will not be able to compete against Darcy and co. Would leave both Young and JSos out and bring in Pitt and TDK parking TDK as 3rd tall when not rucking.

 

[Arr0w]

Kemp should have been in much earlier. He was in form way before we selected him. We then dropped him after 2 games. Cincotta has been in form all year. We brought him in and dropped him too. Fogarty had to wait too long and was a ready replacement for one of the out of form small forwards.

Binns has been in form all year. We opted to wait until Cottrell was ready to make a change there.

Let's not pretend that we weren't way too conservative with selection for several weeks there and we couldn't have injected some different combinations way earlier.

It's so obvious that the pace of Cincotta, Kemp and Gov takes the pressure off Saad down back and the absence of Young has made us more dynamic.

It's obvious that the running and tacking pressure of Fogarty up forward has provided more opportunities.

It's obvious that having more centre square rotations and not as many one paced inside mids in there all at once has made our midfield dangerous again.

It's obvious that not wasting Cerra and Kennedy at half back has helped us.

Let's not just put this down to personnel. Selection has been a massive factor and people have been calling it out for months.

Many factors, and selection is only a very minor factor, when considering individuals rather than what they add to the whole

Kemp was improving his game, but still had glaring deficiencies at VFL level, which were amplified at AFL. He was rightly dropped, and while those concerns still present, he has worked hard in his defensive first mindset and with handovers

Cincotta, similar circumstances

Boyd was recovering from a foot injury

Fog was clearly behind in the pecking order, especially when you consider little Durds. But has built continuity on the back of a preseason back injury

No Cuners or Martin restricted our potency forward, they have added some rare missing pieces

It's never as simple as drop X amount of poor performing players, as roles change depending on overall availability and what players contribute to the team as a whole.

We have used the 4th highest number of players, 36, so we weren't just saying, back in the best 28-30

I believe the core of this debate is gameplan, which hasn't really changed much despite some tweaking the tactics, positional changes and more importantly the players showing more intent

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Hit em hard early on the scoreboard & keep the pressure on them all game as we've done the last 2 weeks and we should be sweet. They like to play their grand final against us due to some deep-seated inferiority complex/one-sided rivalry they have with us, so we need to absorb that and take them from the start.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Kemp and Cincott for all intents and purposes are brand new players - they either perform as instructed or get dropped. They are now performing MUCH better than they debuted. Good Coaching in my books.

Both were good in their first matches back, then the whole team would be misfire and they were the first ones gone. The punishments for poor form were applying to the same players for a while. It took a long time for Vossy to lose faith in Hewett, Fish and Young for example.

You make no mention of Boyd - brought back in as soon as fit.

I made no mention of him because he wasn't an example of poor selection integrity. He was a no brainer as we don't have Zac Williams this year.

I have no comment on Binns - haven't seen him play in AFL and I think VFL is to AFL as tiddlewinks is to chess. Cowan has as much exposed good form as Binns for example - why arent you pressing for his inclusion over - Weightering?

Cowan does not have as much exposed good form as Binns in the VFL by any stretch. This whole notion that VFL is a lower standard so we can't consider it, is ridicuous. If you have multiple out of form players and you are on a losing streak and you have players in consistently good form in the VFL ... well why have the VFL if this doesn't count? Cowan over Weitering? Please JaB, I don't know if you are being serious or not now. However, when Weitering was horribly out of form, I would have considered Sam Durdin over him if he was available. You may allow a few weeks for a player to find form again. You don't wait until your season is virtually over. Fortunately Weiters found form weeks before the rest of the team did.

All Voss decisions - made whilst still losing games for which he has received zero credit - just vitriol in this forum.

Do you think losing makes it harder to try new players out? I don't understand this one.

Fogarty wasn't an obvious forward pocket selecting to ANYONE - just an example of how creative Voss has been and how correct as well.

That's simply not true. He was emergency for a few weeks remember. People were calling for a change to our forward pocket setup for months, and Fog has played forward before.

Funny how when player become available - they an be deployed in CBB rotations - eh?

Yeah, it is funny. Which player became available? Cuningham .... tick. Everyone else was available. How often did we go in with 3 of Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy, Cerra and no variety? That first movement at centre bounces is so important. If our big boys get it first, they usually give it off. If the ball isn't to their advantage, you're going to need someone with quick reflexes and feet to take first possession. Did you see how valuable first possession was yesterday with no rucks? Teams need strength and pace in at the centre bounce. You need a dynamic mix. Cunners alone has not fixed that. He's just part of the puzzle.

I don't know why they were played back there- I suspect to get some match fitness into their legs- see previous comments on their lack of pre-season due to serious surgery...

They were played back there so Doc could stay in the midfield. Regardless, it was a poor move and it showed.

Personnel is selection and selection is based on more than what we see in games- we dont see what the coaches see at training or in recovery or in a myriad of other venues.

I actually cant see an argument in the stuff you've posted - just a search and reach for justifying Voss criticism.

All I can see in your argument is that the coach does not hold any blame for where we found ourselves. It was all on the players and injuries.

I can see that where people were screaming for an injection of pace and enthusiasm and to not persist with players who were horribly out of form, for as long as we did. A lot of those calls have now taken place and we look better. You suggest that is not only coincidental, but that the coach is to be commended and any supporter criticism, you dismiss with a little bit of insulting generalisation to go with it.

Yes, it's true that some supporters got so negative that they won't acknowledge any positives. It's equally true that some supporters won't accept any negatives against coaching or selection, even if it was patently obvious. I suggest that they probably know some of it is valid, but just like the negative group, can't afford to admit that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

You think that those that criticised the coach are poor supporters, but you've thrown every bit of blame to be had on the players. It was obvious we were way too slow and that they were devoid of confidence and ideas. Add some spark and it dominos.

Criticism is always correct when backed by a W/L ratio that supportes the argument. My view is that W/L ratio at best - is a lagging not a leading indicator.

W/L saw Ratten DUMPED.
W/L saw Malthosue DUMPED ( amongst other things)
W/L saw Bolton DUMPED
W/L saw Teague DUMPED (amongst other things)

So now: Lets DUMP VOSS because he has no game plan and hasn't picked Dow. That's what the last couple of months has boiled down to in this forum - RIDICULOUS.

We just spent time discussing other players aside from Dow and you conclude by suggesting it was all about game plan and Dow. I mean ... how are you not just doing what you criticise others of doing?

My kingdom for some balance around here.

 

[JustaBattler]

Both were good in their first matches back, then the whole team would be misfire and they were the first ones gone. The punishments for poor form were applying to the same players for a while. It took a long time for Vossy to lose faith in Hewett, Fish and Young for example.

There is a balance between giving players a run at it and giving players time to get over poor form ( because they already have credits in the bank).

I made no mention of him because he wasn't an example of poor selection integrity. He was a no brainer as we don't have Zac Williams this year.

Vossy has played more players this year than any other coach or thereabouts....that is giving a lot of players on teh list a go..( ;lets not forget the context of this as being a) an inherited lost b) lots of key person inuries and c) a long list of blokes in final year of contract ALl of them wanting a fair go..

Cowan does not have as much exposed good form as Binns in the VFL by any stretch. This whole notion that VFL is a lower standard so we can't consider it, is ridicuous. If you have multiple out of form players and you are on a losing streak and you have players in consistently good form in the VFL ... well why the VFL if this doesn't count? Cowan over Weitering? Please JaB, I don't know if you are being serious or not now. However, when Weitering was horribly out of form, I would have considered Sam Durdin over him if he was available. You may allow a few weeks for a player to find form again. You don't wait until your season is virtually over. Fortunately Weiters found form weeks before the rest of the team did.

There is NO WAY I would drop Weitering - NO WAY if he is fiot to play just like I would NEVER drop Cripps if fit or Charlie or Harry or Walsh NO WAY.

Binns is going to be compared to Acres/Cottrell as a wing rotation isnt he they are bigger more developed bodies - for all the criticisms of Ed Curnow- look at his running stats from yesterday - people are clueless about what role players are supposed to do Ed ticks every box and has experience - Binns is being given every indication he is in favour and close ( is it 2o3 times emergency listed now?)

Do you think losing makes it harder to try new players out? I don't understand this one.

Vopss ahs tried more than any other coach see above....

That's simply not true. He was emergency for a few weeks remember. People were calling for a change to our forward pocket setup for months, and Fog has played forward before.

Peop[el weren't calling for anything when I was saying before teh season even started that we are going to get slaughtered in transition because Durnin/Motlop/Owies arent finals quality and dont kcik goals...where they? this stuff was obvious to me at least from last season - Voss had no choice...as for Fogarty he hs ben playing on ball mid all year in VFL...

Yeah, it is funny. Which player became available? Cuningham .... tick. Everyone else was available.

As far as leg speed goes - Cottrell/Boyd in particular were unavailable as was Martin as was Cuningham

How often did we go in with 3 of Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy, Cerra and no variety? That first movement at centre bounces is so important. If our big boys get it first, they usually give it off. If the ball isn't to their advantage, you're going to need someone with quick reflexes and feet to take first possession. Did you see how valuable first possession was yesterday with no rucks? Teams need strength and pace in at the centre bounce. You need a dynamic mix. Cunners alone has not fixed that. He's just part of the puzzle.

I think you un derestimate how few Voss had to call on tbh...

Walsh and Cripsp haven't been fit Kennedy ha just go there in teh last couple of games - Hewett is still off it....that ios why Docherty was tried ( too mixed success) now because Fogarty has performed in his base role ( forward pocket) he is also a CBB rotation as is Cuningham as should be Martin ( IMO ) that is a hell of lot of fitter options and newer options ....nto only in CBB but around clearances...

They were played back there so Doc could stay in the midfield. Regardless, it was a poor move and it showed.

not everything works -- we learn we move on...

All I can see in your argument is that the coach does not hold any blame for where we found ourselves. It was all on the players and injuries.

I think the coach can be questioned (perhaps) for being too focussed on solwer play - when it was obvious to him that his best runners and best kicks wrent on teh ground or enough of them anyway...as soon as he was able to add these l;ayers of players- the game went back to what it was as far as execution goes last year...as expected ( by me anyway)

I can see that where people were screaming for an injection of pace and enthusiasm and to not persist with players who were horribly out of form, for as long as we did. A lot of those calls have now taken place and we look better. You suggest that is not only coincidental, but that the coach is to be commended and any supporter criticism, you dismiss with a little bit of insulting generalisation to go with it.

Come on this is circular now- the runners weren't available and half fit Cripps is 5 times the player that Dow is - get real

Yes, it's true that some supporters got so negative that they won't acknowledge any positives.

Doesn matter to me - I enjoy teh inevitable back peddling and rewrites of stances...it is a public forum after all

It's equally true that some supporters won't accept any negatives against coaching or selection, even if it was patently obvious. I suggest that they probably know some of it is valid, but just like the negative group, can't afford to admit that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Depend on what is being discussed...there is no middle ground for me when it comes to reading some of the vitriol posted ...also I have not made up my mind on Vossy I am just prepared to give him teh time required to see what he can do - at least with a decent list of 24 fit players available...look at this week for example - both rucks out FFS the bloke cant get a break...

You think that those that criticised the coach are poor supporters, but you've thrown every bit of blame to be had on the players. It was obvious we were way too slow and that they were devoid of confidence and ideas. Add some spark and it dominos.

Peopel make a big deal over footspeed - too big a deal - you need a balance- and if you dont have player availability - well you've got what you've got ...

We just spent time discussing other players aside from Dow and you conclude by suggesting it was all about game plan and Dow. I mean ... how are you not just doing what you criticise others of doing?

My kingdom for some balance around here.

You and I have - but the forum and every thread has been captive to the Dow Now Voss gone brigade for months now...I like Dow- I like Carlton more. Balance is one thing- being shocked by teh level of tolerated vitriol on here is another...it leads to some people responding in kind ( an easy thing to do I'm sure you understand) harder and more taxing to not respond in kind- easier to actually stop investing or lessen investment in such places - it isn't about agreeing with or disagreeing with people- it is about how people choose to express their views - I've been disappointed in the manner in which too many posters have chosen to express their disappointment - not the fact that they are disappointed ( which is understandable)

anyway a better team performance eases all extremities.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Many factors, and selection is only a very minor factor, when considering individuals rather than what they add to the whole

Kemp was improving his game, but still had glaring deficiencies at VFL level, which were amplified at AFL. He was rightly dropped, and while those concerns still present, he has worked hard in his defensive first mindset and with handovers

Cincotta, similar circumstances

Boyd was recovering from a foot injury

Fog was clearly behind in the pecking order, especially when you consider little Durds. But has built continuity on the back of a preseason back injury

No Cuners or Martin restricted our potency forward, they have added some rare missing pieces

It's never as simple as drop X amount of poor performing players, as roles change depending on overall availability and what players contribute to the team as a whole.

We have used the 4th highest number of players, 36, so we weren't just saying, back in the best 28-30

I believe the core of this debate is gameplan, which hasn't really changed much despite some tweaking the tactics, positional changes and more importantly the players showing more intent

We dropped Kemp for 2 games and brought him back. In his first game he had 22 disposals, 2 contested marks and a goal so that wasn't a bad game. Quite simply we had a core group of players who produced last year and weren't producing this year and it took us far too long to recognise they weren't just going to get it back quickly.

The club said we weren't moving the ball how we wanted to. We added players with attacking intent but used them as last in, first out candidates when we lost. That should not have happened. There is nothing that Kemp or Cincotta did back in the VFL for a couple of weeks that was new or improved. It was simply a matter of continuity and confidence and giving them that time. We gave Honey how many weeks before we dropped him?

We might now have used the 4th most amount of players now, but that was largely on the back of recent unforced changes. Prior to that we had moved the magnets around a lot less than we could or should have IMO. Less than some far better performing sides who had no qualms about unforced changes in order to improve.

 

[BigFrizz36]

We dropped Kemp for 2 games and brought him back. In his first game he had 22 disposals, 2 contested marks and a goal so that wasn't a bad game. Quite simply we had a core group of players who produced last year and weren't producing this year and it took us far too long to recognise they weren't just going to get it back quickly.

The club said we weren't moving the ball how we wanted to. We added players with attacking intent but used them as last in, first out candidates when we lost. That should not have happened. There is nothing that Kemp or Cincotta did back in the VFL for a couple of weeks that was new or improved. It was simply a matter of continuity and confidence and giving them that time. We gave Honey how many weeks before we dropped him?

We might now have used the 4th most amount of players now, but that was largely on the back of recent unforced changes. Prior to that we had moved the magnets around a lot less than we could or should have IMO. Less than some far better performing sides who had no qualms about unforced changes in order to improve.

We get that you don't like Voss. It's obvious.

However there are plenty of times that developing players have to go back to the reserves to work on things. It was hardly earth shattering that Kemp had to. He looked lost many times and was letting the ball out of his zone too easily. He got another chance because Young lost all confidence, and we decided to play a smaller more mobile defence which has worked so far. Honey only played because Fisher lost form and Cuningham and Martin couldn't.

Voss was willing to tinker with things and gave Hollands and Cowan early opportunities. Our midfield hasn't changed too much at all - Walsh has started to get some power back in his running which makes a huge difference.

Our hands were tied to an extent with Cuningham, Martin, Boyd and obviously Williams injured. There's two key runners from both ends that we have been without most of the season. We are seeing the difference in terms of our on field pace with three of them back.

Since Voss' appointment we have played 37 games, won 18, lost 18 and drawn 1. The next 8 games (with a fair few of the chess pieces available) will be a good indicator of his coaching ability.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

We get that you don't like Voss. It's obvious.

However there are plenty of times that developing players have to go back to the reserves to work on things. It was hardly earth shattering that Kemp had to. He looked lost many times and was letting the ball out of his zone too easily. He got another chance because Young lost all confidence, and we decided to play a smaller more mobile defence which has worked so far. Honey only played because Fisher lost form and Cuningham and Martin couldn't.

Voss was willing to tinker with things and gave Hollands and Cowan early opportunities. Our midfield hasn't changed too much at all - Walsh has started to get some power back in his running which makes a huge difference.

Our hands were tied to an extent with Cuningham, Martin, Boyd and obviously Williams injured. There's two key runners from both ends that we have been without most of the season. We are seeing the difference in terms of our on field pace with three of them back.

Since Voss' appointment we have played 37 games, won 18, lost 18 and drawn 1. The next 8 games (with a fair few of the chess pieces available) will be a good indicator of his coaching ability.

Voss is not a tinkerer. If anything, the antithesis of ....

His conservative attitude towards game plan and selection is the main reason we won't make finals (short of a minor miracle).

To not make finals is a major, major fail.

And in that event, his role must be heavily scrutinised and other options reviewed.

 

[bmaurizio]

Next 2 games will obviously be much greater challenges , playing against 2 quality teams is the only way for to measure our team’s potential & mind set, fortunately Port will played at Marvel stadium.
Got all fingers & legs crossed the boys bring home at least 4 points.
Go Baggers.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I wouldn't go that far.

Newman did make a couple of judgement and execution errors, but with a higher defensive press, if pressure isn't applied between the arcs, giving a forward of that quality that much forward space, it won't end well

If Charlie had that much space, to work one on one, he would kick a dozen

I guess I focused on three bad blunders by him in Q3, including that innocuous 50m penalty against him.

Will watch the replay tonight for a different perspective.... and I do rate him as a player.

 

[ctwenty1]

Next 2 games will obviously be greater challenges by far, playing against to quality teams is the only way for to measure our team’s potential & mind set, fortunately Port will played at Marvel stadium.
Got all fingers & legs crossed the boys bring home at least 4 points.
Go Baggers.

Expect the team to respond to the feedback freo and port will try to give them.

Will be lots of nourishment, too.

 

[Ezayyak]

It's not about not liking Voss, in my view I don't have a judgement on his coaching one way or another. Think it is more a coaching panel issue as a whole. I think Voss has some terrific coaching qualities, which was evident early last year but my issue is that when start going awry, the coaching panel as a whole don't seem to read the state of play.

Granted, we have added in players that have qualities we've sorely missed earlier in the year but to be fair, we had a reasonable clean bill of health for the first two months and we misfired with what the coaching panel believed would work. The only game in the first 3 months that was actually very good was the Geelong game (not including WC game.)

Yes the turnaround in the last two weeks has been impressive but with the first 3 months still clearly visible in our rearview mirror, there is no doubt that this year, so far, has been a supreme disappointment.

 

[Red_man2008]

Jsos will not be able to compete against Darcy and co. Would leave both Young and JSos out and bring in Pitt and TDK parking TDK as 3rd tall when not rucking.

JSOS will return to the forward line and play the in between role and only one of TDK and Pitto will play as the weather indicates we need JSOS and not two talls that are irrelevant around the ground. #1 ranked player on the ground WONT get dropped.

 

[Red_man2008]

It's not about not liking Voss, in my view I don't have a judgement on his coaching one way or another. Think it is more a coaching panel issue as a whole. I think Voss has some terrific coaching qualities, which was evident early last year but my issue is that when start going awry, the coaching panel as a whole don't seem to read the state of play.

Granted, we have added in players that have qualities we've sorely missed earlier in the year but to be fair, we had a reasonable clean bill of health for the first two months and we misfired with what the coaching panel believed would work. The only game in the first 3 months that was actually very good was the Geelong game (not including WC game.)

Yes the turnaround in the last two weeks has been impressive but with the first 3 months still clearly visible in our rearview mirror, there is no doubt that this year, so far, has been a supreme disappointment.

A win v freo in Perth and hopefully one v port or coll coming up and we’re looking like this season is just the reversal of last year. Pity we couldn’t knock off one of ess or Syd otherwise we’d be in the 8 next week.

 

[CJMB]

JSOS will return to the forward line and play the in between role and only one of TDK and Pitto will play as the weather indicates we need JSOS and not two talls that are irrelevant around the ground. #1 ranked player on the ground WONT get dropped.

Who's rankings?...

Coaches had Cerra with a perfect 10 votes.

Champion Data also had Cerra as highest rated player on the ground with 130 ranking points.

 

[bmaurizio]

Lets hope at least I Ruck can play, otherwise it will be miserly for our midfielders.
JSOS is very courages and commendable, always prepared to sacrifice his body against the Mastodons of AFL, puts the team first.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

No to Mots.

Read some of the pundits who saw the game live....

It was against a bottom 2 VFL side....

Yeah, fair enough. Just do have a soft spot for Jesse, will be a real weapon for us in time. Be a very handy midfielder as well in future years.

 

[Arr0w]

We dropped Kemp for 2 games and brought him back. In his first game he had 22 disposals, 2 contested marks and a goal so that wasn't a bad game.

Forget the number of touches. People got fired up when I stated he should be dropped after the Lions game, where he was responsible for at least 4 goals, either over committing to a contest and not kiling the ball, or ignoring the handover to another opponent

It was justified

Quite simply we had a core group of players who produced last year and weren't producing this year and it took us far too long to recognise they weren't just going to get it back quickly.

It was more to do with the style of play, than player performance, again, only 2 players have retained or improved on last year, Charlie ans Cerra.

We started tweaking areas before our last 2 wins, but all of a sudden everyone is contributing to the level of efficiency. So it can't be coaching or especially gameplan

The club said we weren't moving the ball how we wanted to. We added players with attacking intent but used them as last in, first out candidates when we lost.

Because the main focus was building a sustainable defensive mantra to springboard attacking layers. Guys like Kemp and Cincotta were present in our poor losses

There is nothing that Kemp or Cincotta did back in the VFL for a couple of weeks that was new or improved. It was simply a matter of continuity and confidence and giving them that time.

Wasn't about new, was reinforcement of defensive first acts, rather than just ball hunting

We gave Honey how many weeks before we dropped him?

I agree, should have been dropped earlier, but we needed an xfactor type, due to the absence of Cuners and Martin

We might now have used the 4th most amount of players now, but that was largely on the back of recent unforced changes. Prior to that we had moved the magnets around a lot less than we could or should have IMO. Less than some far better performing sides who had no qualms about unforced changes in order to improve.

Before the recent outs, we had still used a higher and or on par number of players compared to other sides.

We did move some magnets, trying to find the right blend and I was vocal about playing the likes of Kennedy at HB, but even altering that magnet, would not have moved the needle that much

People were also screaming for Doc to return to the back half, but his inclusion to the middle was the right call. Let's not can every aspect despite suffering unexpected losses

It's frustrating and for many, it won't make a difference if we go on a winning streak, as people have missing finals embedded in their minds when having these discussions after a win

What I want to see now and moving forward is the same mantra of intent, pressure, selfless acts to bring teammates into a better position, whether we win, loss or miss finals

At some point, you use history as a learning tool, not one of determining blame

 

[Arr0w]

I guess I focused on three bad blunders by him in Q3, including that innocuous 50m penalty against him.

Will watch the replay tonight for a different perspective.... and I do rate him as a player.

Newman loves being on the edge, that 50 was intentional, he was setting the scene for the rest of the game, one we were never losing

He often does it forward of centre to stop a fast break if he thinks sides will get the overlap, allow the side to setup behind the ball

Tigers have been doing it for years

 

[Red_man2008]

Who's rankings?...

Coaches had Cerra with a perfect 10 votes.

Champion Data also had Cerra as highest rated player on the ground with 130 ranking points.

Afl player rating. Number 1 on ground.

1. jSOS
2. McKay
3. Cripps
4. Cerra

 

[Red_man2008]

CJMB

 

[BigFrizz36]

Voss is not a tinkerer. If anything, the antithesis of ....

His conservative attitude towards game plan and selection is the main reason we won't make finals (short of a minor miracle).

To not make finals is a major, major fail.

And in that event, his role must be heavily scrutinised and other options reviewed.

Yep. We have been the masters of sacking coaches. It's worked a treat for us every time. Hopefully there is a coaching maestro out there on the horizon looking for another paycheck.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

JSOS will return to the forward line and play the in between role and only one of TDK and Pitto will play as the weather indicates we need JSOS and not two talls that are irrelevant around the ground. #1 ranked player on the ground WONT get dropped.

Was rapt for JSOS, that he was able to impact as much as he did. Maybe, a career best game I thought.
Pitt will be needed to combat Darcy. TDK if fit, will make for a very difficult decision for the M.C.
Probably cannot play all three, good chance their will be some weather. We will be looking for run in the last quarter.
Cotters will be an important inclusion, I would play Binns as sub.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We get that you don't like Voss. It's obvious.

I love Voss. I loved him as a player. I like the way he communicates. I really want him to succeed.

What do we do with this now?

However there are plenty of times that developing players have to go back to the reserves to work on things. It was hardly earth shattering that Kemp had to. He looked lost many times and was letting the ball out of his zone too easily. He got another chance because Young lost all confidence, and we decided to play a smaller more mobile defence which has worked so far. Honey only played because Fisher lost form and Cuningham and Martin couldn't.

Fisher played in 4 of the 5 games Honey played in.

Young has been out of form all season. We most definitely dropped the less experienced players and kept in more out of form experienced players.

Voss was willing to tinker with things and gave Hollands and Cowan early opportunities. Our midfield hasn't changed too much at all - Walsh has started to get some power back in his running which makes a huge difference.

Our hands were tied to an extent with Cuningham, Martin, Boyd and obviously Williams injured. There's two key runners from both ends that we have been without most of the season. We are seeing the difference in terms of our on field pace with three of them back.

Since Voss' appointment we have played 37 games, won 18, lost 18 and drawn 1. The next 8 games (with a fair few of the chess pieces available) will be a good indicator of his coaching ability.

I have said nothing about Vossy's coaching ability. I haven't called for him to be sacked. I articulate each and every concern I have and I believe they have been valid.

My only purpose in continuing these debates is that after 2 wins, some are coming in with a broom to say that Voss was right all along and had done nothing wrong. I bet you any money, that if you ask Voss if he had made some mistakes this year, he would admit he had.

As I keep saying, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It's not only posters on BigFooty that have been critical, there have been media scribes and former players as well.

I'm rapt that we have won 2 games in a row now, but it is secondary to how we are playing. We are more well drilled, we seem to know what we are doing now. There was plenty of intensity before, but it was ineffective because we couldn't get to contests.

Yes, some have got fitter, but I get told that some players are entitled to stay in the firsts until they get fitter, whilst others had to go back to the VFL to get fitter. That two tier system of loyalty may have cost us a couple of games here or there.

I mean, we are still rank outsiders for a finals berth. It's not as though all of our problems have suddenly been solved.

I'm happy if this makes us stronger for a better tilt next season, but we have had time to build this team for success much sooner than it has taken IMO.

There is plenty of blame to go around. I keep saying it. You come back with me not liking Voss. It's just not true and it's a poor argument.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Yep. We have been the masters of sacking coaches. It's worked a treat for us every time. Hopefully there is a coaching maestro out there on the horizon looking for another paycheck.

What has happened in the past is the past.

It shouldn't impact current or future thinking.

Different admin, different coaches, different players in a different time....

If there's a better option e.g. Don Pyke - you take it.