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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Preview 2023 Rd 17 Carlton vs Fremantle Sunday July 9 4:40PM @ Optus Stadium
- Thread starter 4flagsin5yrs
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- Oct 11, 2019
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Answered some critics, the focus has gone off us now from the media. Coming off two wins, albeit against mediocre opposition.
This is a game that we traditionally lose, I mean how many times have we won three in a row over the last five years?
Yes Freo are hot and cold, yet they are always tough to beat in W.A.
Darcy looms large, a fit Pitt would be handy. If not then TDK hopefully gets up.
Like to see Motts come in, playing pretty well in the two's. Maybe for Owies.
Cowan has been great the last couple of weeks, is putting a fair bit of heat on Cinc right now.
Need to come out of the blocks fast and lead by four goals at quarter time, to be a really good chance. They are notoriously slow starters.
Should be a tight contest, Blues by 4 points.
This is a game that we traditionally lose, I mean how many times have we won three in a row over the last five years?
Yes Freo are hot and cold, yet they are always tough to beat in W.A.
Darcy looms large, a fit Pitt would be handy. If not then TDK hopefully gets up.
Like to see Motts come in, playing pretty well in the two's. Maybe for Owies.
Cowan has been great the last couple of weeks, is putting a fair bit of heat on Cinc right now.
Need to come out of the blocks fast and lead by four goals at quarter time, to be a really good chance. They are notoriously slow starters.
Should be a tight contest, Blues by 4 points.
- Sep 9, 2015
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The same Breust that had 10 touches and kicked 2 goals.. That's a real torching...
4flagsin5yrs
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No to Mots.
Read some of the pundits who saw the game live....
It was against a bottom 2 VFL side....
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If Jacob does get a week, then I have supreme confidence that Sam Durdin will come in and do a great job for us.
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Newman was pretty good yesterday. Primarily played on Bruest and kept him to 10 touches. Bluest did kick 2 goals, the first when Newman had to cover forward and the ball was tapped over to his opponent and the second from a mark with not much pressure on the kicker or the lead.
He did give way a stupid 50 meter penalty to make a certainty of a goal. Overall though they probably gad two blokes who could hurt us (Lewis and Bruest). Thanks to Weitering and Newman (and the whole backline) neither did.
Newman gets a lot of the big jobs (Greene, Bruest etc). We go a lot better when he's playing well.
I wouldn't go that far.
Newman did make a couple of judgement and execution errors, but with a higher defensive press, if pressure isn't applied between the arcs, giving a forward of that quality that much forward space, it won't end well
If Charlie had that much space, to work one on one, he would kick a dozen
I'd tread water on that for the moment
TENACIOUS
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| OUT: | Young, E.Curnow, Hewett | |
| IN: | TDK, Cottrell | Sub: Dow |
| FB: | Newman - Kemp - Weitering |
| HB: | Boyd - McGovern - Saad |
| C: | Acres - Cripps - Cottrell |
| HF: | Cuningham - McKay - Martin |
| FF: | Fogarty - C.Curnow - Owies |
| R: | De Koning - Cerra - Walsh |
| INT: | Silvagni - Cincotta - Kennedy - Docherty |
| SUB: | Dow |
Other Possibilities
- If both Pittonet and TDK are fit then Young and JSOS (unlucky) make way...
- I'd love to get Big Durdin into the side, but not at the expense of Kemp or Gov and if we drop a Newman, makes us too tall... Weitering won't get suspended for that slap...
- I'd also love to get Dow and Binns into the 22, but just can't see who would be left out?
Vossy's game plan has relied too much on looking after individuals, Cripps to win clearance, give it to Saad,
Kick it long to Charlie or Harry...
Since we have started to turn things around and look so much better now, we have started bring others into the game, by using the corridor and lowering our eyes going forward...
What I'd like to seen now, is consciously using Boyd, Cincotta, Cuningham & Martin more as the kick going inside 50, they have elite foot skill and vision...
Teams we've beaten this year:
Geelong - who were winless after three rounds and now 9th
GWS - 10th
North - 17th
WCE - 18th
GCS - 12th
Hawthorn - 16th
Hardly an inspiring list.
Next two weeks will be interesting. Freo are five goals better at home and Port are the second best team in it this year.
Geelong - who were winless after three rounds and now 9th
GWS - 10th
North - 17th
WCE - 18th
GCS - 12th
Hawthorn - 16th
Hardly an inspiring list.
Next two weeks will be interesting. Freo are five goals better at home and Port are the second best team in it this year.
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Nic Newman has missed five games since Michael Voss took over as coach. We have lost them all.
Probably just a coincidence though.
4flagsin5yrs
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no way do we drop the guy, just i reckon he had a poor one by his own standards.
Bletch
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Bring back Plow!
4flagsin5yrs
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Match preview now uploaded.
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
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Didnt really see it that way . Had 17 touches and 339 metres gained against an opponent that had 10 touches . 1 goal against that you could probably blame him for and one stupid 50 against.
Wasn't in our best but was a fair way from being a liability.
Was tagging Breust. Kemp him pretty much curtailed the entire game. In the votes I’d say.
Newman one of the few we have that plays with an edge. Problem is he doesn’t have Tatts so that throws the ump seeing a clean baby faced bloke doing such things and it throws them off making what he does seem more extreme than a DeGoey, Package, etc as it feels so out of character. Nick needs to hit the ink parlour in the off season.
- Jun 7, 2019
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Not an out for George but he did replace Charlie .. I was confused to where he was meant to be playing also .. George is a very strange tactical sub at the best of times ..
Can't take too much away from belting a couple of weak teams with key players out. Most decent teams would belt these sides. Thing is we have got a few things right while we have got away with getting a few things wrong.
Picking Ed over Dow and even Binns was horrendous. That's got to be one of the worst team selection calls I a have seen.
Silvagni and Young only worked because the opposition was very weak. We had to go that way with injuries however DeKoning and Pittonet replace both of them. IMO If we go with them again, Silvagni plays defence and Young plays forward. Another thing we got wrong.
Slow leg speed is so 2021. The less slow players you have in a team now the better. The game is so fast and open now they just get left for dead. Kennedy, Cripps, Hewett, Curnow running around, we do not get away with this against the top 10 sides, they torch us. Yeah we have got better but that's what will happen. That's what has been happening. Voss is a slow learner who has made some costly mistakes, we know that, we are an entire season behind the better teams of the comp when it comes to adjusting to the new rule changes and game style and he's still picking the wrong players.
One thing Voss needs to get around his head is that it's more important to win the outside game than the inside game. It's more important to have leg speed around the ground, contests and stoppages than it is to have bulk and muscle. These are the biggest factors with how the game has changed and the biggest mistakes we keep making with team selection.
The key to our success is picking defenders who can defend one on one. This is the way the modern game has gone. Puts a spotlight on guys like Young and Newman who are slow and rely on team defence. The game has moved past these sort of players as the fast direct ball movement has taken away the team defence and exposed them. While guys like McGovern and Kemp thrive as they are quick, tall and can defend one on one. Ability to defend one on one is now a big deal. Cincotta, McGover, Kemp, Boyd, Weitering, Cowan and Docherty can all defend one on one when they have to. Newman and Young can not and Hawthorn showed us that.
The other key is getting a fully quick 22. We still carry too many slow players to compete against the top 10 sides and regularly win against them. It's a little bit about us not having them and a hell of a lot about us not selecting them. Cripps and kennedy will do. Young, Newman, Silvagni, Hewett, Curnow etc. Don't leave Dow, Binns, Cowan etc in the reserves for these guys, move on.
It's obvious the more pace we have added the better we have become. Why are we afraid of adding even more? Voss clearly has does not quite get it and has not quite fully moved on yet. Us supporters will have to wait for someone else to do that or for him to finally get it and go full pace with his 22.
Forward line pressure has improved a lot. Taken out a few players who won't tackle and are slow (Fisher, Silvagni, Motlop) for guys who tackle and have some leg speed (Cuningham, Owies, Martin, Fogarty) and it's improved us. Our forward line still lacks a bit of pace and fitness. Thought the ball came out there too quick and easy at times still but we can improve on that.
Team selection if these guys are fit would be.
B: Kemp Weitering Cincotta
HB: Saad McGovern Docherty
C: Acres Cripps Cottrell
HF: Dow DeKoning Cuningham
F: McKay Curnow Owies
OB: Pittonet Cerra Walsh
IC: Boyd Kennedy Martin Fogarty
SUB: Silvagni
EM: Cowan Motlop Binns Young
Moves
Defence is full leg speed, full of players who can defend one on one. Docherty goes back there off a win as Cottrell comes back in.
Up the rotations! Voss is finally rotating the mids, it's keeping them fresh and we are playing higher pressure and 4 quarter footy. But it's only Cuningham and Fogarty rotating so still not enough rotations. Dow comes in as a forward/mid and gives us three forwards who can go on the ball. Dow spending more onball time of course as he is a fit in form genuine mid which gives us greater impact in there and keeps our mids fresher. IMO Dow is a great rotation for Walsh but also for Cerra. The idea is to let Dow prove himself and potentially push Kennedy out of the side as we continue to embrace pace but it ups our midfield speed which we need to do.
Silvagni is a good sub purely because he can play so many roles.
Docherty to relieve Acres on the wing. Cuningham and Fogarty to rotate with Cottrell.
DeKoning allows McKay and Curnow to stay deep as they did against GCS although they will rotate through CHF but it keeps two talls deep which is what we want. If we are too short in defence we can throw DeKoning back, he will do better than Young will at that. Personally I like that backline, even against tall forward lines, it will give a few marks away but it will run off very well.
IN:
Cottrell - Back on the wing and Docherty back mostly to defence.
Dow - Insane how he keeps getting left out. He's a better player than Curnow, Hewett and Kennedy and has the legs for the modern game unlike those three. Comes in to play forward/mid. Enough of Voss' dumb ideas please. I'll take young fast and in form over old and slow.
DeKoning - Had one of his best ever games against GCS. We need a real forward/ruck to compete against the better teams. Silvagni is a liability against top sides in this role.
Pittonet - We need a real ruckman. which is obvious. Pittonet/TDK combo works.
OUT:
Curnow - He's finished. Incredibly slow and had no impact. Opposition players ran off him. Age has caught him, game has moved past him. It's time to hang them up Ed, let the young guys have a go.
Newman - I like Newman but the game has moved past him as well. He's a slow defender who is smart and tough but the modern game means teams move the ball quickly and that leaves defenders one on one and that means defenders now need to be able to defend one on one which means leg speed is a must. He leaked goals like a sieve against Hawthorn. Docherty comes back off the wing to replace him IMO. However watching Cowan last week. He's super impressive. He's the perfect modern defender. Beautiful kick, hard competitor, strong body, good one on one, very quick and plays tall. Newman has been solid, he's been a leader but there is no way he is best 22 next year with Cowan coming on, Cincotta and Boyd coming on who can defend one on one and Williams coming back. The question remains just how long it will take Voss to realise that the game has moved on from slow players, particularly slow defenders and that the ability to defend one on one is a requirement now. Fast ball movement means team defence can't save the slow defenders like Newman and Young anymore.
Young - Young needs to go back and learn the forward/ruck craft. He also needs to learn where the gym is and have a good look at his diet because he's incredibly physically underdeveloped. Either way his lack of awareness, decision making, physically not being strong enough and lack of pace means he struggles in defence and ruck. Game has moved past guys like him who need a solid zone around them so they can defend. I still think if he adds 10+kg and works on it he can become a forward/ruck. He has the overhead marking ability and height. Just a very underdeveloped player in a lot of ways.
Hewett - Game has moved past him. Good footballer in the previous era. Sydney knew it and let him go. Voss no idea. Needs to find another club come trade week.
Close
Cowan - Watched the VFL and he really impressed me. He's twice the player he was earlier in the season. He's finding a lot more of the ball. He has physically matured a lot. He's stronger and fitter. I'd play him ahead of Newman now. Newman is smart, tough and competitive and has been a good player but if we are going to play the modern way it means we get opened up more which means we need a team of defenders who can defend one on one and are not so reliant on team defence. Newman leaked goals like a sieve, he's a slow old fashioned defender. Cowan is a modern breed of defender. He's quick, strong, good overhead and can defend one on one. On top of that he can provide rebound and is a beautiful kick and long kick. He's the future of our defence.
Motlop - He probably does not come in as he is learning to become multipositional. He played on ball a lot in the VFL. Which I am stoked as I have wanted them to do this with him. His repeat efforts and ability to run out games are not there so his forward pressure is not there. Currently being outplayed but other small forwards in our team like Fogarty, Martin and Cuningham. But he's improving and he played well on the weekend so name deserves to be brought up. IMO needs an extended run in the 2s as an onballer who drifts forward. Lets not forget he's a second year player and has a lot of developing to do.
Binns - Binns is a player of the future. Extremely good work rate, covers a lot of ground, tackles well, finds a lot of the ball on a wing. Was given a small amount of onball time on the weekend which is good. Hope to see him get some forward time as well. Probably could polish up his disposal a little but he's not too bad there. Smart player, not slow just not super quick, high footy IQ, perhaps a similar wingman to Sidebottom. Good enough to debut but still a lot of developing to go. Name deserves to be brought up but the spot in the team is probably not there this week.
Picking Ed over Dow and even Binns was horrendous. That's got to be one of the worst team selection calls I a have seen.
Silvagni and Young only worked because the opposition was very weak. We had to go that way with injuries however DeKoning and Pittonet replace both of them. IMO If we go with them again, Silvagni plays defence and Young plays forward. Another thing we got wrong.
Slow leg speed is so 2021. The less slow players you have in a team now the better. The game is so fast and open now they just get left for dead. Kennedy, Cripps, Hewett, Curnow running around, we do not get away with this against the top 10 sides, they torch us. Yeah we have got better but that's what will happen. That's what has been happening. Voss is a slow learner who has made some costly mistakes, we know that, we are an entire season behind the better teams of the comp when it comes to adjusting to the new rule changes and game style and he's still picking the wrong players.
One thing Voss needs to get around his head is that it's more important to win the outside game than the inside game. It's more important to have leg speed around the ground, contests and stoppages than it is to have bulk and muscle. These are the biggest factors with how the game has changed and the biggest mistakes we keep making with team selection.
The key to our success is picking defenders who can defend one on one. This is the way the modern game has gone. Puts a spotlight on guys like Young and Newman who are slow and rely on team defence. The game has moved past these sort of players as the fast direct ball movement has taken away the team defence and exposed them. While guys like McGovern and Kemp thrive as they are quick, tall and can defend one on one. Ability to defend one on one is now a big deal. Cincotta, McGover, Kemp, Boyd, Weitering, Cowan and Docherty can all defend one on one when they have to. Newman and Young can not and Hawthorn showed us that.
The other key is getting a fully quick 22. We still carry too many slow players to compete against the top 10 sides and regularly win against them. It's a little bit about us not having them and a hell of a lot about us not selecting them. Cripps and kennedy will do. Young, Newman, Silvagni, Hewett, Curnow etc. Don't leave Dow, Binns, Cowan etc in the reserves for these guys, move on.
It's obvious the more pace we have added the better we have become. Why are we afraid of adding even more? Voss clearly has does not quite get it and has not quite fully moved on yet. Us supporters will have to wait for someone else to do that or for him to finally get it and go full pace with his 22.
Forward line pressure has improved a lot. Taken out a few players who won't tackle and are slow (Fisher, Silvagni, Motlop) for guys who tackle and have some leg speed (Cuningham, Owies, Martin, Fogarty) and it's improved us. Our forward line still lacks a bit of pace and fitness. Thought the ball came out there too quick and easy at times still but we can improve on that.
Team selection if these guys are fit would be.
B: Kemp Weitering Cincotta
HB: Saad McGovern Docherty
C: Acres Cripps Cottrell
HF: Dow DeKoning Cuningham
F: McKay Curnow Owies
OB: Pittonet Cerra Walsh
IC: Boyd Kennedy Martin Fogarty
SUB: Silvagni
EM: Cowan Motlop Binns Young
Moves
Defence is full leg speed, full of players who can defend one on one. Docherty goes back there off a win as Cottrell comes back in.
Up the rotations! Voss is finally rotating the mids, it's keeping them fresh and we are playing higher pressure and 4 quarter footy. But it's only Cuningham and Fogarty rotating so still not enough rotations. Dow comes in as a forward/mid and gives us three forwards who can go on the ball. Dow spending more onball time of course as he is a fit in form genuine mid which gives us greater impact in there and keeps our mids fresher. IMO Dow is a great rotation for Walsh but also for Cerra. The idea is to let Dow prove himself and potentially push Kennedy out of the side as we continue to embrace pace but it ups our midfield speed which we need to do.
Silvagni is a good sub purely because he can play so many roles.
Docherty to relieve Acres on the wing. Cuningham and Fogarty to rotate with Cottrell.
DeKoning allows McKay and Curnow to stay deep as they did against GCS although they will rotate through CHF but it keeps two talls deep which is what we want. If we are too short in defence we can throw DeKoning back, he will do better than Young will at that. Personally I like that backline, even against tall forward lines, it will give a few marks away but it will run off very well.
IN:
Cottrell - Back on the wing and Docherty back mostly to defence.
Dow - Insane how he keeps getting left out. He's a better player than Curnow, Hewett and Kennedy and has the legs for the modern game unlike those three. Comes in to play forward/mid. Enough of Voss' dumb ideas please. I'll take young fast and in form over old and slow.
DeKoning - Had one of his best ever games against GCS. We need a real forward/ruck to compete against the better teams. Silvagni is a liability against top sides in this role.
Pittonet - We need a real ruckman. which is obvious. Pittonet/TDK combo works.
OUT:
Curnow - He's finished. Incredibly slow and had no impact. Opposition players ran off him. Age has caught him, game has moved past him. It's time to hang them up Ed, let the young guys have a go.
Newman - I like Newman but the game has moved past him as well. He's a slow defender who is smart and tough but the modern game means teams move the ball quickly and that leaves defenders one on one and that means defenders now need to be able to defend one on one which means leg speed is a must. He leaked goals like a sieve against Hawthorn. Docherty comes back off the wing to replace him IMO. However watching Cowan last week. He's super impressive. He's the perfect modern defender. Beautiful kick, hard competitor, strong body, good one on one, very quick and plays tall. Newman has been solid, he's been a leader but there is no way he is best 22 next year with Cowan coming on, Cincotta and Boyd coming on who can defend one on one and Williams coming back. The question remains just how long it will take Voss to realise that the game has moved on from slow players, particularly slow defenders and that the ability to defend one on one is a requirement now. Fast ball movement means team defence can't save the slow defenders like Newman and Young anymore.
Young - Young needs to go back and learn the forward/ruck craft. He also needs to learn where the gym is and have a good look at his diet because he's incredibly physically underdeveloped. Either way his lack of awareness, decision making, physically not being strong enough and lack of pace means he struggles in defence and ruck. Game has moved past guys like him who need a solid zone around them so they can defend. I still think if he adds 10+kg and works on it he can become a forward/ruck. He has the overhead marking ability and height. Just a very underdeveloped player in a lot of ways.
Hewett - Game has moved past him. Good footballer in the previous era. Sydney knew it and let him go. Voss no idea. Needs to find another club come trade week.
Close
Cowan - Watched the VFL and he really impressed me. He's twice the player he was earlier in the season. He's finding a lot more of the ball. He has physically matured a lot. He's stronger and fitter. I'd play him ahead of Newman now. Newman is smart, tough and competitive and has been a good player but if we are going to play the modern way it means we get opened up more which means we need a team of defenders who can defend one on one and are not so reliant on team defence. Newman leaked goals like a sieve, he's a slow old fashioned defender. Cowan is a modern breed of defender. He's quick, strong, good overhead and can defend one on one. On top of that he can provide rebound and is a beautiful kick and long kick. He's the future of our defence.
Motlop - He probably does not come in as he is learning to become multipositional. He played on ball a lot in the VFL. Which I am stoked as I have wanted them to do this with him. His repeat efforts and ability to run out games are not there so his forward pressure is not there. Currently being outplayed but other small forwards in our team like Fogarty, Martin and Cuningham. But he's improving and he played well on the weekend so name deserves to be brought up. IMO needs an extended run in the 2s as an onballer who drifts forward. Lets not forget he's a second year player and has a lot of developing to do.
Binns - Binns is a player of the future. Extremely good work rate, covers a lot of ground, tackles well, finds a lot of the ball on a wing. Was given a small amount of onball time on the weekend which is good. Hope to see him get some forward time as well. Probably could polish up his disposal a little but he's not too bad there. Smart player, not slow just not super quick, high footy IQ, perhaps a similar wingman to Sidebottom. Good enough to debut but still a lot of developing to go. Name deserves to be brought up but the spot in the team is probably not there this week.
- Jun 4, 2016
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How many votes are you giving away?!? McKay, weits, cripps, cez, Walsh, acres, doch, JSos and Martin were all more deserving!
The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
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Kemp should have been in much earlier. He was in form way before we selected him. We then dropped him after 2 games. Cincotta has been in form all year. We brought him in and dropped him too. Fogarty had to wait too long and was a ready replacement for one of the out of form small forwards.
Binns has been in form all year. We opted to wait until Cottrell was ready to make a change there.
Let's not pretend that we weren't way too conservative with selection for several weeks there and we couldn't have injected some different combinations way earlier.
It's so obvious that the pace of Cincotta, Kemp and Gov takes the pressure off Saad down back and the absence of Young has made us more dynamic.
It's obvious that the running and tacking pressure of Fogarty up forward has provided more opportunities.
It's obvious that having more centre square rotations and not as many one paced inside mids in there all at once has made our midfield dangerous again.
It's obvious that not wasting Cerra and Kennedy at half back has helped us.
Let's not just put this down to personnel. Selection has been a massive factor and people have been calling it out for months.
JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
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I haven't made any conclusions about anything - just observations about how things work.
There has been no correction to the game plan whatsoever - there are no game plans every coach plays to the same game plan every week every game. the only differences you think you are seeing is how the ball is moved- and that is all about idiosyncratic factors specific to each teams' player capabilities - NOTHING to do with BS notions of 'game plan'. People confuse player execution , matchups with game plan all the time.
You can only beat the teams you beat so what?
Every coach likes a contested brand of football - that is how you get to defend as well as attack - from the contest. Every coach also likes their teams to score goals - so what?
The perceived style has been a direct outcome of player availability, fitness and form - nothing less nothing more and nothing else.
JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
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Kemp and Cincott for all intents and purposes are brand new players - they either perform as instructed or get dropped. They are now performing MUCH better than they debuted. Good Coaching in my books.
You make no mention of Boyd - brought back in as soon as fit.
I have no comment on Binns - haven't seen him play in AFL and I think VFL is to AFL as tiddlewinks is to chess. Cowan has as much exposed good form as Binns for example - why arent you pressing for his inclusion over - Weightering?
All Voss decisions - made whilst still losing games for which he has received zero credit - just vitriol in this forum.
Fogarty wasn't an obvious forward pocket selecting to ANYONE - just an example of how creative Voss has been and how correct as well.
Funny how when player become available - they an be deployed in CBB rotations - eh?
I don't know why they were played back there- I suspect to get some match fitness into their legs- see previous comments on their lack of pre-season due to serious surgery...
Personnel is selection and selection is based on more than what we see in games- we dont see what the coaches see at training or in recovery or in a myriad of other venues.
I actually cant see an argument in the stuff you've posted - just a search and reach for justifying Voss criticism.
Criticism is always correct when backed by a W/L ratio that supportes the argument. My view is that W/L ratio at best - is a lagging not a leading indicator.
W/L saw Ratten DUMPED.
W/L saw Malthosue DUMPED ( amongst other things)
W/L saw Bolton DUMPED
W/L saw Teague DUMPED (amongst other things)
So now: Lets DUMP VOSS because he has no game plan and hasn't picked Dow. That's what the last couple of months has boiled down to in this forum - RIDICULOUS.
If we can't get up for this game there is something seriously wrong, coming off two big wins, season is literally on the line, players who were out of form are starting to show a bit... our tails should be right up this week, we win and the season is in our hands again, lose and it's curtains.
what more do you want as a player, we've been pitiful for most of the year and the opportunity to get back in the season presents itself on Sunday afternoon.
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