List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[Sainttony]

I think if Gresham leaves it will be for good coin so we could potentially be talking band 1. I say this as I think he wants to stay and it will take a really good deal to get him to another club

 

[mighty_sainters]

So do we start talking about band 1 or 2 now for Gresh?

I would still guess 2.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Next year is seen as a midfielders draft so we MUST hold onto our future first!
Also, Elwood Peckett & Boston Everett are eligible for father son if they’re good enough

I think future picks would be better this year. Only trade for picks for the players we need (Henry) and keep our first rounder. Getting a future first for Dougal might be the better outcome.

If Elwood Peckett shapes as a superstar, the AFL will probably change the rules on us at the last minute.

 

[gringo2011]

How depressing is it thinking that McCartin, Acres, Dunstan and Billings should all be in their primes right now and leading us to top 4 positions

Add Coff and Clark. They are as old as Acres was when we gave him the arse. Probably won't make it above GOPs if they haven't already. Billings and Gresham were miles ahead of both at the same age. At least Coffield hasn't played much so we can hold out some hope.

 

[Max the great]

You honestly think that? He had a mare of a last quarter. Almost lost it for Carlton with his dodgy kicking and got caught holding the ball 3 times.
I don't rate Walsh at all, he's basically a little bit better version of Ryan byrnes

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

Oh boy

 

[pebblesofsand]

Acres staunched Langdon tonight, multiple times Landon shat himself or just made little hesitations when playing on a big bodied opponent like Acres. It’s all well and good to have a hard running and fairly fast accelerating player like Langdon or Hill covering the ground and putting in repeat sprints, but I think you need that balanced out with a Wood or Acres who gives aerial presence as well as strength.

Very happy with our balance at the moment with Hill, Wood, Sinclair and Nas spending time on our wings, Nas developed an aerial presence this year as well.

Now if Melbourne were open to parting with Trent Rivers instead of James Jordon, that’s something I would be very interested in

So we have both then - Hill and Wood.

Acres has taken 23 years, two sackings and several coaches to get to the point when he decided to stop waltzing around the wing and gazing up into the sky trying to decide which cloud he might hit with his next kick.

As for James Jordon - mid who doesn't get to play mid all the time in one of the better midfields in the league but still played 65 of the last 75 games for Melb including every game in their premiership year.

 

[kernelT]

Maybe but I also remember spending a lot of time on the wing. Just never took his opportunity. Let's not forget he also got dropped two or three times at Freo.

It's taken until 27 to finally click for him and I don't think anyone that watches him closely couldn't see that he's clearly working a lot harder out on the ground than he ever has.

He was never one that you would say left everything out there on the ground until this year.

Not suggesting it was the right thing to get rid of him for us, because clearly that Hill deal was an absolute stinker, but he looks like a player that had to get a couple of kicks in the arse to realise what it takes to he an AFL footballer.

Agree, but I also reckon he’ll always look like a casual campaigner, Dal Santo was a bit like that and got accused of being lazy for a long time.
I guess the takeaway is that it’s worth preserving with players who have natural gifts even if they’re having a few perceived attitude issues like Gresham at the moment.
He was one of our best in a final last week, so you’d want to be pretty confident that your compo is going to outweigh the loss if we let him walk.
Some guys need a cuddle, others need a kick up the arse, not sure what Jade needs but he’s a super talent IMO.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Okay. Wood had a great start to the season and levelled out. Acres has been BOG in two finals and a big part of Carlton's turn around. Acres has 5 to 6 years left. Wood has one or two.

It would have been nice to have them both on opposite wings.

 

[kernelT]

Wood & Hill are 30 and we need to hit the draft so they’re both just helping us tread water for the interim.

 

[gringo2011]

I don’t think supporters still realize what an absolute farcical appointment Richo was. Refused to interview for the position, we gave him the job anyway, paid Port $50K for the privilege and then let “the development coach” deliver the worst development of young players that i have ever seen.
We will be still paying for the Richo cluster* for at least another 5 years.

Set him up to fail by surrounding an absolute spud with sycophants and incompetents as well. Trout and Retcho were a disaster. Will take 5 to 10 years to filter back out and make up for the missing pieces. The road should have gone for the initial decisonand then the failure to act on i. Putting Lethlean in as the list architect was another absolute **** up. Really sad that we had to go and beg our last decent coach to come back and make us relevant again. At least it seems to be working but the people steering the ship are still there.

 

[Remboy]

First I’ve heard of Jelly being a pipe dream

next thing you know someone will be saying we’re not getting Heeney.

 

[stavro#4]

I would still guess 2.

Still a first round pick.

If we can grab one for Howard - you have all the currency to move into the top 10

 

[pebblesofsand]

Wood & Hill are 30 and we need to hit the draft so they’re both just helping us tread water for the interim.

No they got us into the finals this year.

Good list management would be to target someone like Liam Henry to replace Hill.

 

[gringo2011]

Melbourne completely fumbled (through injury and other) pick 1 (watts) pick 1 (Scully) pick 2 (Trengove) pick 4 (Toumpas) pick 4 (Morton) mini draft (hogan)

Gysberts, Tapscott, Blease, cook all first round picks similar ranges to acres and dunstan.

Then we gifted them trac to get them back in form haha

Point being even a recent premier had a period of about 6-8 years of completely screwing up the draft.

And Carlton and Richmond. Tigers stuffed up too. Had 5 first rounders in 2014, Delidio (pick 1), Tambling, Mayer, Pattison and Polo. Hawks have three FR picks get Roughy, Buddy and Jordan Lewis.

It can turn around fast but you have to start making good decisions. The bedrock gets built while you use your high picks at the draft to hopefully bring in stars. We haven't kept to a path and changed direction too much. We have turned over too many hoping for miracles. Lethlean burnt us too. His top up when we should have drafted was idiotic. Another Pelican.

Holding good older players while bringing in youth gives you depth and stability and a level of players able to train the kids coming through. I reckon we are still at least 3 or 4 years away if we start moving out bulk players again.

 

[stavro#4]

And Carlton and Richmond. Tigers stuffed up too. Had 5 first rounders in 2014, Delidio (pick 1), Tambling, Mayer, Pattison and Polo. Hawks have three FR picks get Roughy, Buddy and Jordan Lewis.

It can turn around fast but you have to start making good decisions. The bedrock gets built while you use your high picks at the draft to hopefully bring in stars. We haven't kept to a path and changed direction too much. We have turned over too many hoping for miracles. Lethlean burnt us too. His top up when we should have drafted was idiotic. Another Pelican.

Holding good older players while bringing in youth gives you depth and stability and a level of players able to train the kids coming through. I reckon we are still at least 3 or 4 years away if we start moving out bulk players again.

Need a draw a line under all that now.

We know the core. We know the demographic they are working towards.

Hopefully another 2-3 first round kids this year and if we get the same outcome as the last 2 drafts - we are well on the way.

 

[stfan]

Also, Elwood Peckett & Boston Everett are eligible for father son if they’re good enough

Not that I have followed them closely, but the ability/form reports do not suggest anything outstanding do they?

 

[stavro#4]

So what we know so far is we look likely to get Dow and Henry what else is highly likely to happen?

Still 5 clubs running around mate.

Just my opinion…. I think we are a buyer for clubs needing cap relief and we won’t hear anything about those players for another few weeks.

 

[ScrappyDo]

The Crouch contract is a hard one to go off as a lot of his money was performance based so wasn't included in the salary when the AFL added their formula.

I'd imagine that kind of co tract would nor.ally get you band 2

The 6-650 was still the base amount though. He'd be closer to 750k based on his season.
BT was correct in saying circa 6-650k is band 3 territory.

 

[stavro#4]

Not that I have followed them closely, but the ability/form reports do not suggest anything outstanding do that?

We are probably another decade away from getting our first genuine good F/s

Hopefully We Have a few Hayes & Rooeys a kosi running around by then

 

[bird_man]

The 6-650 was still the base amount though. He'd be closer to 750k based on his season.
BT was correct in saying circa 6-650k is band 3 territory.

How do you jnow this?

The Herald Sun's was reporting thr biggest earners, why would they leave a large part of his earned wage off?

600k obviously isn't enough as McStat early that, but if 750 gets you band one than 650k would be close to band 2. Especially with Gresham's age, he is as young as you can get for a FA

 

[Premium]

A F*Up of the highest order - as you say, which will affect us for years.

After Lethlain joined the club (2018) Richardson was on notice and was out the door during the 2019 season when Ratten was given the chance to rebuild the team.
During this time the whole playing list was turned upside down and the club attempted to inject more leadership and talent.
Players like Hannerbery -which never worked out , Ryder , Hill - premership player , Butler - premiership player , Howard - captained Port , Higgins - first round draft pick , Wilkie , Sharman , Jones etc.
Basically we attempted to improve the list which had very few quality players - having to fill positions with players like Bruce , Kent , Savage , Dunstan , Newnes , Hickey , Acres , Lonie , Wright , Brown , Carlisle , Parker , Long , Marsh.

After establishing a core group of players that could at least give a reasonable account of them selves (Crouch , Hill , Wilkie , Marshall , Sinclair , Steele) they have now over the past 2 years started too find talent in the draft that will give us the class to lift the club from the doldrums.

2021
pick 11 -Wanganeen - Milera
pick 33 - Owens
pick 47 - Windhager
pick 51 - Adams / delisted this year
Mid season draft - pick 7 - Heath
pick 20 - Sharman

2022
pick 10 - Phillipou
pick 31 - Van Es
pick 35 - Hotton
pick 44 - Keeler

We are by far from a finished product by what we have in our squad now is far superior to what we had from the Richardson era.
Basically we have turn the club around and most of the hard work has been done with the removal of all the dead wood that was hindering the team from moving forward.

There have been mistakes along the way that that has to be expected - Hannerbery was the first mistake and we know it will not be the last , but with young talent like Wanganeen - Milera , King , Owens , Winghager , Phillipou , Sharman , Keeler , Heath we are heading in the right direction and unbelievably we have done it with very few top end draft picks.

We are heading into the current trade and draft season with a full draft hand and hopefully we pick up some more class talent this year which will only improve our list more.

I fully expect some ruthless decisions to be made , but they need to be done.

 

[stavro#4]

How do you jnow this?

The Herald Sun's was reporting thr biggest earners, why would they leave a large part of his earned wage off?

600k obviously isn't enough as McStat early that, but if 750 gets you band one than 650k would be close to band 2. Especially with Gresham's age, he is as young as you can get for a FA

Well we know that the crows got band 3 and we know that contract was heavily incentivised- which crouch hasn’t missed a beat for us.

So can you know for certain? No

But you could make a fair assumption that he is on well over 650k and into the 700s

 

[Saintbloke]

Acres staunched Langdon tonight, multiple times Landon shat himself or just made little hesitations when playing on a big bodied opponent like Acres. It’s all well and good to have a hard running and fairly fast accelerating player like Langdon or Hill covering the ground and putting in repeat sprints, but I think you need that balanced out with a Wood or Acres who gives aerial presence as well as strength.

Very happy with our balance at the moment with Hill, Wood, Sinclair and Nas spending time on our wings, Nas developed an aerial presence this year as well.

Now if Melbourne were open to parting with Trent Rivers instead of James Jordon, that’s something I would be very interested in

Langdon looked very ordinary last night, and I would say that Byrnes will develop into a better player than him

 

[stfan]

Need a draw a line under all that now.

Agree. We just have to keep making good decisions now, and to keep drafting and trading well.

Toce seems to have a much better eye than his predecessors.

AND to keep the admin types like Lethlean and Bains the hell away from list management. Letting those two play out their boyhood dreams in our football department is a huge reason why we got to where we were with our list two years back.

We know the core. We know the demographic they are working towards.

Hopefully another 2-3 first round kids this year

Another 2 to 3 first rounder?

Hard to envisage how that can happen now.
Getting just one extra first round pick looks dependent on getting a good return for Howard. Not sure we can get two or three extra first round selections. That is unless you actually believe Steel would go, which would seem madness to me.

and if we get the same outcome as the last 2 drafts - we are well on the way.

Hopefully. But so far the dream of getting in a bunch of extra second round draft picks, and say one first round selection looks to be fading.

I am happy with Henry, and Dow (both of whom will consume pics to acquire), but I just wish we can land more decent extra picks than now seems likely in order to give Toce some decent ammunition to work with.

 

[Miha]

Going to be you to trade up the draft this year I feel. List Management have to pull out something special with our pics