List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[saintmike65]

Where's he's foot skills in that, heard he's fairly shite, that's why he hasn't played more?

One thing that stood out for me was Dow’s lightening hands!!

 

[gringo2011]

Also with the Swans bringing in Grundy I rekon we should make a play for Peter Ladhams.

Not a great tap but finds the footy and can kick a goal when pushed forward.

He's a poor man's RoMa but I can see the two of them playing well together and rotating between deep forward and on ball.

He looked super promising early on but apparently he's a bit of a dickhead.

 

[stavro#4]

We need to aim to get better. We should be aiming to go into the top four, we've been yo-yoing for years we've now seen what we are capable of. Address the deficiencies via trade, draft and on the training track and take another step forward in 2024.

Enough of the mediocrity. 2023 needs to be a stepping stone.

What do you think we are doing? Aiming to get worse?

We are a young side. We are looking to improve.

the fact is that what is looking likely is that the route to improvement is the Draft for us this year and that's not necessarily going to show immediately.

That's not mediocre. that's a fact of our game

 

[Diehard Saint]

How is Jack Vineys kicking ?

Well, just look at his kick across field in the dying minutes of Friday night's game which led directly to a Blues goal....

Seriously though, in general his main aim is to get the ball which he does very well. Disposal, like a lot of very good mids, not always quite up to the same standard.

 

[gringo2011]

just tell him to keep away from carlton players,because its very very clear that he got the garbage from gws,while future club captains,club leading goalkickers,rightful(in some minds)norm smith winners & other very good types went elsewhere

GWS lost heap because he paid the players too much and couldn't keep everyone. He was list manager not recruiter and they should have assembled one of the greatest sides ever with their concessions. They were set up to succeed.

 

[saintmike65]

Where's he's foot skills in that, heard he's fairly shite, that's why he hasn't played more?

One thing that stood out for me was Dow’s lightening hands!

Dow will be a third rounder, agree about Jordon

Jordan is young, a free hit and was the 23rd player in a grand final team in ‘21…can’t see the issue in pursuing him!

 

[stavro#4]

GWS lost heap because he paid the players too much and couldn't keep everyone. He was list manager not recruiter and they should have assembled one of the greatest sides ever with their concessions. They were set up to succeed.

They should have won the flag in 2016.

But on the same hand you whack him, surely you give him credit for turning each star into great draft currency which has enabled them to SUCCEED - seeing as they are into another Prelim, with Cogs Kelly Whitfield Greene Ward all towards the end of their careers and not the start.

 

[gringo2011]

LOL - The 2023 season is over for us.. the next time Billings potentially suits up for us is in 2024 and we are still banging on about when he was fully fit back in 2017/19....

Even when fit... He only managed 3 games this year.

which very much suggests he isn't in RTBs best 22.

It means he is a fringe player and very much someone who would want to move on and someone we can afford to move on.

In Comparison... Gresham is much more maligned, Had injuries that are more serious than JBs and he is someone we would also let go. But has played whenever he is fit.


The fact is that if you want us to improve. Its going to occur via the Draft Trade or Free Agency.

There is no Free Agent that will substantially improve us this year.

there isn't any huge targets available for trade - currently.

so it's the draft - the avenue we have done very well in the past 24 months.

1 first round & 1 Second round pick isnt going to change our fortunes and make us a contender.

Good list management is moving on cusp players who we have outgrown. The H/Sun reported we were happy to cover some Billings Salary for a second rounder.

Thats a good deal if it eventuates.

There are heaps of ways to improve besides draft or FA.

 

[stavro#4]

One thing that stood out for me was Dow’s lightening hands!

Jordan is young, a free hit and was the 23rd player in a grand final team in ‘21…can’t see the issue in pursuing him!

Both come in and improve our midfield depth - of which there is none.

Both young enough to potentially be more.

 

[stavro#4]

There are heaps of ways to improve besides draft or FA.

Please list the HEAPS of ways besides Draft or FA...

there is only trade and as it stands RIGHT NOW..

who are we not in the running for that massively improves us?

Mckay makes us better but we still tread water. I would vomit if we paid him the rumoured 800k/6 years

 

[gringo2011]

Dow finished 7th in the JJ Liston. Fair effort for a guy who played 10 games at AFL level.

Surprising. Must be an accumulation award. Binns for them looked a better player and in his first year.

 

[jimmytigs]

We have plenty of reason to think we can improve too.

Owens Pou Windy Nas Caminiti Byrnes

a full season of King

a fully fit Steele

Don't think we have a player in our best 22 that appears to be at that drop off point either.

The unknowns are the likes of Henry Down Jordan and the draft

I can also appreciate why we might fall back - But i dont think there is alot behind us, aside from maybe Sydney who i think have better talent then us.

add in billings jones and mackenzie(if he gets back)all surely knowing they are playing for their lives & coff like a new recruit,im pretty bullish

 

[gringo2011]

We have plenty of reason to think we can improve too.

Owens Pou Windy Nas Caminiti Byrnes

a full season of King

a fully fit Steele

Don't think we have a player in our best 22 that appears to be at that drop off point either.

The unknowns are the likes of Henry Down Jordan and the draft

I can also appreciate why we might fall back - But i dont think there is alot behind us, aside from maybe Sydney who i think have better talent then us.

Nas is a star already. A fit King. The kids will go either way. Could go backwards to move forward, could plateau, anything. Midfield depth will be the worst of any side in the league. One injury to a best 22 mid and we probably write off finals.

We have to recruit a few of those Dow types just for covering holes. Not convinced about list management. Gags and Lethers did some damage and we are having to paper over cracks. Lyon's system holds up though at least. The list management in the next few years will be the difference between being competitive and being good though.

 

[gringo2011]

They should have won the flag in 2016.

But on the same hand you whack him, surely you give him credit for turning each star into great draft currency which has enabled them to SUCCEED - seeing as they are into another Prelim, with Cogs Kelly Whitfield Greene Ward all towards the end of their careers and not the start.

They were set up to be able to trade out for more picks. Should have done more with what they had. Not all his fault though.

 

[Veer Right]

Billings is absolutely worth every cent of what he’s getting, try replacing his production when fit for less.

lol what?

 

[gringo2011]

Please list the HEAPS of ways besides Draft or FA...

there is only trade and as it stands RIGHT NOW..

who are we not in the running for that massively improves us?

Mckay makes us better but we still tread water. I would vomit if we paid him the rumoured 800k/6 years

State leagues, picking off players that sit outside best 22 or fringe at other clubs, pushing for direct swaps rather than picks. Pioneer, do things different to get a result. Richo era Saints were the least creative club in every way. Geelong have innovated all the way through and it allowed them to stay up for 20 years. Draft with you higher picks, use later to pick off the fringes.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Yep making excuses and moving the deck chairs around won’t cut the mustard.

Ross may have spoken about year of exploration externally but once he saw what we were capable of with the players we did have - young as they were - there was no way he wasn't pushing for finals - you could just see the disappointment, he was not satisfied at all after the game.

There is no way he will be expecting and chasing anything less than finals next season - especially as we should be improving the list (hence not trading out Billings, Clark, Gresh, Howard etc for the sake of it unless we can improve on them).

The man is a competitive beast - no way HE will be settling for going backwards, and neither should we. Think hes a fan of the Cats model, recruiting and playing young players while still contending.

 

[Diehard Saint]

One thing that stood out for me was Dow’s lightening hands!

Jordan is young, a free hit and was the 23rd player in a grand final team in ‘21…can’t see the issue in pursuing him!

Happy with both. Good age demographic for us which will cost very little. If anyone can get the best out of them, it'll be Ross.
Just look at Stocker.

 

[moirae42]

Are all the blokes mentioned as potential recruitment better than our first batch of delistings?

Probably.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Are all the blokes mentioned as potential recruitment better than our first batch of delistings?

Probably.

First batch - yes.
It's the second batch we have to be careful with.

 

[Klaatu]

Well, just look at his kick across field in the dying minutes of Friday night's game which led directly to a Blues goal....

Seriously though, in general his main aim is to get the ball which he does very well. Disposal, like a lot of very good mids, not always quite up to the same standard.

That's my point, people bitching about Dow's kicking really the guy's a ball magnet HB it out if need be.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Ameet at trade night

So it was Ameet who made the calls then.

Sweet

Trout will be relieved to hear that he’s off the hook.

You haven’t answered the following post though…. Who gets the credit for the savvy trades that were made during that time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stavro#4]

Nas is a star already. A fit King. The kids will go either way. Could go backwards to move forward, could plateau, anything. Midfield depth will be the worst of any side in the league. One injury to a best 22 mid and we probably write off finals.

We have to recruit a few of those Dow types just for covering holes. Not convinced about list management. Gags and Lethers did some damage and we are having to paper over cracks. Lyon's system holds up though at least. The list management in the next few years will be the difference between being competitive and being good though.

SO our kids could go backwards but all the clubs behind us will be guaranteed to go forwards?

aren't they trying to improve our midfield depth in Henry Dow and Jordan?

Can you atleast complain factually so that your not being an emotional drunk about the state of play with us - which after this season, is quite positive.

 

[stavro#4]

State leagues, picking off players that sit outside best 22 or fringe at other clubs, pushing for direct swaps rather than picks. Pioneer, do things different to get a result. Richo era Saints were the least creative club in every way. Geelong have innovated all the way through and it allowed them to stay up for 20 years. Draft with you higher picks, use later to pick off the fringes.

So Trade Draft and Free Agency

Thanks Mate.

 

[Sainter1873]

We have plenty of reason to think we can improve too.

Owens Pou Windy Nas Caminiti Byrnes

a full season of King

a fully fit Steele

Don't think we have a player in our best 22 that appears to be at that drop off point either.

The unknowns are the likes of Henry Down Jordan and the draft

I can also appreciate why we might fall back - But i dont think there is alot behind us, aside from maybe Sydney who i think have better talent then us.

Byrnes? Not sure.